Bowler's Blow it up mock off season

[beardown3231]

6 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

What are Judon's strengths and weaknesses? 

What is your point? The Bears shouldn't be putting MORE money into the defense right now. They tried that this year by figuring if you can't score at all you may as well try to kill the opposing QB but Quinn sucks. Judon isn't asked to rush the passer. He's more of an off the ball linebacker who generates pressure due to power and relentless. Still I'm not putting another $10M a year into the defense when every position on O needs upgrading

[WindyCity]

Every cent they have needs to go to offense. Whether that is keeping Robinson or adding to the OL.

Defenses has gotten the bulk of the resources and it created this mess.

[beardown3231]

30 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Every cent they have needs to go to offense. Whether that is keeping Robinson or adding to the OL.

Defenses has gotten the bulk of the resources and it created this mess.

Yeah well tell me Robinson's strengths and weaknesses!!

[WindyCity]

12 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Yeah well tell me Robinson's strengths and weaknesses!!

Strength

Being petulant on social media

 

Weakness

Knowing where the marker is on 3rd down when the game is on the line and the defender has fallen over.

[topwop1]

If they are unable to tag and trade Robinson then I wouldn't be opposed to keeping him here for one more year on the tag in the event that they draft a young QB.

You need to surround a young QB with play makers, which may be lacking here next season depending on how the offseason goes.

[JAF-N72EX]

13 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Judon isn't asked to rush the passer.

73% of his career snaps have been rushing the passer (same % as this year). It's literally what he has been asked to do his entire career with the exception of his 2nd season in Dean Pees' system and even then 64% of his snaps were spent rushing the passer.

92% in 2016, 64% in 2017,  73% in 2018, 75% in 2019, 73% this year.

[JAF-N72EX]

8 hours ago, topwop1 said:

If they are unable to tag and trade Robinson then I wouldn't be opposed to keeping him here for one more year on the tag in the event that they draft a young QB.

You need to surround a young QB with play makers, which may be lacking here next season depending on how the offseason goes.

FO messed up by not extending him. Now I'm not sure he even wants to be here anymore and I'm sure he has to be sick of playing musical chairs with Qbs at this point. Especially awful ones and I can't say I blame him.

[beardown3231]

58 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

73% of his career snaps have been rushing the passer (same % as this year). It's literally what he has been asked to do his entire career with the exception of his 2nd season in Dean Pees' system and even then 64% of his snaps were spent rushing the passer.

92% in 2016, 64% in 2017,  73% in 2018, 75% in 2019, 73% this year.

He's not a pass rusher by trade. He does it well but plays a ton in coverage. Compared to most edge guys he doesn't rush the passer as much as they do. He just makes his count. He ranked something like 30th last year in terms of pass rushes. Everyone in the top 10 had 100+ more rushes than he did. In the first month this year he was on pace to be around 50th in the league in total pass rushes

He's similar to Floyd in terms of versatility except a much better pass rusher when asked

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by beardown3231

[JAF-N72EX]

25 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

He's not a pass rusher by trade. He does it well but plays a ton in coverage. Compared to most edge guys he doesn't rush the passer as much as they do. He just makes his count. He ranked something like 30th last year in terms of pass rushes. Everyone in the top 10 had 100+ more rushes than he did. In the first month this year he was on pace to be around 50th in the league in total pass rushes

He's similar to Floyd in terms of versatility except a much better pass rusher when asked

 

He is a pass rusher by trade (whatever you mean by that). That is literally what he was brought in to be. And no, he is not a good pass rusher either. 

I don't know where you are getting your numbers from but it doesn't matter because total number of rushes don't mean crap for a couple of reasons. 1) Not all edge players are treated equal-- defensive system matters (3-4 and 4-3) and DC's like Martindale and Bowles are well known for their heavy blitz schemes. 2) A team with a terrible defense and/or terrible offense is going to be on the field much more than the rest of the league. 

It is the % of defensive snaps relative to the team's defensive totals that matter. 

  

Edited December 11, 2020 by JAF-N72EX

[beardown3231]

9 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

He is a pass rusher by trade (whatever you mean by that). That is literally what he was brought in to be. And no, he is not a good pass rusher either. 

I don't know where you are getting your numbers from but it doesn't matter because total number of rushes don't mean crap for a couple of reasons. 1) Not all edge players are treated equal-- defensive system matters (3-4 and 4-3) and DC's like Martindale and Bowles are well known for their heavy blitz schemes. 2) A team with a terrible defense and/or terrible offense is going to be on the field much more than the rest of the league. 

It is the % of defensive snaps relative to the team's defensive totals that matter. 

  

What I mean by that is he does a lot more than rush the passer

I never said he's great at it. I said he's better at it than Floyd

I'm getting numbers from the Ravens' site

Of course it has to do with opportunity, but Baltimore is a solid team that by score alone (not scheme) Judon's had ample chance to rush the passer yet hasn't been asked to as much as more well-known plahers

Overall Judon is a good player, but you're right. He isn't great, which is exactly why I'm not giving him 4 years, $40M+ (also because I'm sick of dumping all resources into defense)

[dll2000]

Start tanking now for Arch Manning.  

[JAF-N72EX]

15 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

What I mean by that is he does a lot more than rush the passer

You said he wasn't asked to rush the QB and that's false.  Every pass rusher in the league is asked to do more than just rush the QB......that's their job.  You said Judon was not a "pass rusher by trade". That's a very weird label to begin with, which is why I'm so confused by it. But it doesn't matter. 

15 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

I never said he's great at it. I said he's better at it than Floyd

 I never said that you said he was great at rushing the passer. I was only correcting you when you said "he did it well" but didn't get enough opportunities because he was dropped into coverage so much. Which both statements are completely wrong and that's all I was pointing out to you. 

15 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

I'm getting numbers from the Ravens' site

This should tell you alot then. 

16 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Of course it has to do with opportunity, but Baltimore is a solid team that by score alone (not scheme) Judon's had ample chance to rush the passer yet hasn't been asked to as much as more well-known plahers

Not scheme? As I said above,  scheme has everything to do with bulk numbers. And again,  he has been asked as much. Accumulating bulk numbers don't mean anything without context.

16 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Overall Judon is a good player,

Your not making any sense here, but whatever, it doesn't matter.  Admit it man, you haven't really watched him. And that's fine if you haven't but don't pretend that you have.  This is why I asked what you thought his strengths and weaknesses were to begin with to see if you had actually watched him play, and it's pretty clear that you haven't. 

My point is, Judon is asked to rush the QB at a high rate (as I pointed out) and he is not a good pass rusher or a good player in general. Floyd had strength's....Judon doesn't.

I watch ALOT of the AFC North and Judon is very average player with no real strengths to his game IMO. He is has taken advantage of the scheme, free blitzes, plays against low end QB/tackle talent, and even against TE's left in to block---all of which is expected from any rusher put in his position at the time.  He takes bad angles on would-be tackles and is very indecisive against the run (waits for the runner to make a move before commiting which leads to bigger gains than they actually should). And from what I've seen, the Ravens defense doesn't seem to miss a beat without him in the lineup.

He is a definitely another buyer beware player. 

 

[WindyCity]

Judon is a power/effort rusher who won’t probably needs to be in a complimentary role as a pass rusher. He is not athletic enough to threaten OTs consistently as a rusher.

He is delux Pernell McPhee, with probably a little less power.

It doesnt really matter as we already have 40 million a season invested at OLB without any way to get out of it cleanly till 2023.

[beardown3231]

25 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Judon is a power/effort rusher who won’t probably needs to be in a complimentary role as a pass rusher. He is not athletic enough to threaten OTs consistently as a rusher.

He is delux Pernell McPhee, with probably a little less power.

It doesnt really matter as we already have 40 million a season invested at OLB without any way to get out of it cleanly till 2023.

Everything with him is a f***ing test. Instead of telling Bowler "I don't like the Judon addition," he finds someone else who doesn't like the idea and quizzes them.

Judon isn't a pure pass rusher. Fact. His numbers and what Baltimore asks him to do proves that. If he was top notch he would be asked to get to the QB a lot more. The Bears also put way too much money into the defense consistently and it apparently doesn't work. I'm not sure what's so god damn difficult to understand about that.

Edited December 12, 2020 by beardown3231

[JAF-N72EX]

You have said he does well as a pass rusher and that he is a good player overall but now your stance has changed?

14 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Everything with him is a f***ing test. Instead of telling Bowler "I don't like the Judon addition," he finds someone else who doesn't like the idea and quizzes them.

Nope. Just you. And that's only happened twice. And that's only because you have never displayed any sense of knowledge about football whatsoever despite your best efforts and it's always funny watching you trip over your own words and backtrack whenever someone actually points outs how wrong you are in your assessment. The last time I asked you to explain your opinion about a player was when we signed Tashaun Gipson and you said Clayton Gathers would've been a better signing and you said it was because you were at the game when we played the Colts lol. 

Bottom line dude, every time someone points out something you are wrong about and provides facts you get offensive . 

If you haven't watched a player enough or you don't really understand different coaching schemes then don't pretend that you do.  If you don't know something but are interested in learning...... then just simply ask questions, bud.  That's how you learn.  If you don't wanna ask questions and would rather teach yourself by going back and watching then there are plenty of tools available for this. For example, if your not familiar with how schemes work and how they can have a profound effect on players' performance there are alot good article/books out there that will teach you what to look for in player. And if you are really interested in learning then get gamepass so that you can read about different teams/players and then go back and watch for yourself and see for yourself if that particular article/forum post matches up with what they were saying, and in the end, you will end up with a better understanding about the game as a whole. 

I've been heavily invested in football for decades now to the point of being associated with a number of groups throughout that time just to learn.  I've been on this forum for the better part of 15 years now and I have learned alot from other members by just reading, listening, observing, and asking questions when I'm not sure. Even at times when I have been proven absolutely wrong. That's what I was trying to do for you above by showing what you should be looking at regarding numbers (i.e. the bulk amount doesn't matter more than how the player is getting them) and how to look read certain stats the right way objectively .  Point is, the opinions of others can offer great insight about the game, if you use it right way, if you are willing to learn. But you also have to be willing to admit when you are wrong and learn from it too. 

That's all, man. But whatever, like I said, it doesn't matter.