Is Herbert a lock for OROY?

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

15 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

I'm sure he was kidding.    I'd feel sorry for Murray, but the guy is such a good player his physical stature has proven to be totally irrelevant.  It would be like criticizing Elvis because he was a lousy painter.

Is that why his play has diminished significantly since suffering a shoulder injury? Like, we can ignore how small Kyler is to an extent, but he's already showing durability concerns which may or may not be attributed to that.

[Uncle Buck]

4 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Is that why his play has diminished significantly since suffering a shoulder injury? Like, we can ignore how small Kyler is to an extent, but he's already showing durability concerns which may or may not be attributed to that.

I don't follow the Cardinals closely enough to give you an educated response to that one.  I just know he has looked like will be a good QB for them from what I have seen.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, Uncle Buck said:

I don't follow the Cardinals closely enough to give you an educated response to that one.  I just know he has looked like will be a good QB for them from what I have seen.

When healthy, I absolutely agree. Their entire offense has changed since his injury, however.

His Y/A has dropped every single game since the start of November (7.66 > 6.4 > 5 > 4.4). And when you look at the route tree that DeAndre Hopkins is running recently it looks a little different from earlier on in the year:

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/deandre-hopkins/HOP161500/season

[Bearerofnews]

4 hours ago, Awsi Dooger said:

2-9 record and 7.1 YPA. If that's a lock then the league has lost all perspective.

Herbert looked so scared against the Dolphins and that amoeba defense. His facial expression throughout seemed like he fully understood the inevitable outcome and wanted to be anywhere else. This isn't rationalization a month later. I posted it immediately on Dolphin sites, especially during the Tua vs. Herbert debates after that game. Tua was animated and Herbert a sour-faced frump. That was a major part of the evaluation process entering the league, and how Herbert translated. It's hardly stature and spirals alone.

I probably should have realized that Belichick would sense the same thing out of that Dolphins game, and use the blueprint to turn up the mental pressure several notches against Herbert. Maybe he'll eventually adjust but right now Herbert against that type of atypical stand-up defense gets happy feet and throws on retreat. The interception last week at 35-0 looked exactly like so many plays against the Dolphins. Contrast to standard looks where Herbert has no problem stepping up in the pocket.

At least Herbert is finished with the 4 consecutive game stretch against the AFC East, so he might artificially boost his numbers again.

It was 5.84 YPA against the Dolphins, then a good but unspectacular 7.47 against the Jets, 6.08 versus Buffalo, and a laughable 3.94 against New England

There was nothing about Herbert on the Miami game that looked shook or scared, at all. This is such a bad take. The OC was shook and had no answer and Keenan even called it out. Herbert is as poise under pressure as a rookie can be. The problem vs Buff and NE is Chargers completely abandon the run game and that doesn't bode well for teams blizting.

All 4 AFCE teams got a much higher rate of pressure on Herbert than they have all year. This eliminating Chargers ability to expose their secondaries and go deep.

There is a fix for this. It's called not having the worst pass blocking oline in the league.

[Bearerofnews]

3 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said:

Lol, no.  

He's having a very Philip Rivers-like season at most.  

And, why is his team last place in their division? He's thrown some costly picks. He has a lot to do with why they're so bad.  

He's going to be a Gardner Minshew fad that grows stale fast.  

Joe Burrow's far better.  

This has absolutely nothing to do with it.  

Baker Mayfield broke the rookie TD record two years ago for the very reason that it's a QB driven league.  

Every rookie QB going forward will set the new record until we eventually get to a rookie QB who will throw 50 TDs.  

Herbert has been light years better than Burrow and will continue to be.

 

The only costly picks Herbert had was vs Bills and Mia. Even with a bad game vs NE, very bad game. He is still on pace to break most rookie records...  no we wont get rookies on the Pace Herbert is on. Burrow sure wasn't when it came to TD's... even yards.

[Bearerofnews]

Prior to the NE game, Herbo had 100 passer rating, 67% comp 23 to 7 TD:INT. If he has another NE game, he prolly wont win.

But if he closes out at the level he was playing most of the season, he will win easily.

I dont recall alot of wow throws in Baker's rookie season. In most games Herbert has like 3 or 4 wow throws that resonate with people.

Jefferson is going to make it interesting. Don't think Robinson will be in the convo.

[BayRaider]

I was gonna make a OROY and DPOY Watch List like my MVP Thread, but decided to wait until after Week 17 and just do a Top 5 for both. 
 

Right now Herbert is the front runner, but I don’t think Jefferson is as far behind as people think. It’s pretty close. 
 

I also still expect Burrow to finish Top 5. ROY is one award you can play half the year and win. 
 

I will say I completely disagreed with last years results of Kyler Murray. Complete slap in the face of fans imo. I thought it was 1. A.J. Brown 2. Josh Jacobs 3. Kyler Murray with Murray being a distant 3rd. 

[Xenos]

4 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said:

Lol, no.  

He's having a very Philip Rivers-like season at most.  

And, why is his team last place in their division? He's thrown some costly picks. He has a lot to do with why they're so bad.  

He's going to be a Gardner Minshew fad that grows stale fast.  

Joe Burrow's far better.  

This has absolutely nothing to do with it.  

Baker Mayfield broke the rookie TD record two years ago for the very reason that it's a QB driven league.  

Every rookie QB going forward will set the new record until we eventually get to a rookie QB who will throw 50 TDs.  

Considering most of their losses was because of the defense, I’m going to disagree with you here.

[kramxel]

People don't seem to realize just how trash our O-line really is... 

I'd put it up there, in contention with Cincy for worst OL. 

Herbert is being pressured A LOT, and has handled pressure surprisingly well, but it's not enough VS cover zero, when your OL gets beat across the board in max protect, like against Miami, or against a Patriots team that was generating pressure right after the snap, even without blitzing all that much. 

People haven't seen the Chargers much, and I don't blame them, it's not good football, but just glancing at stat sheets isn't enough to understand how dependant this team is on Herbert to be absolutely godlike on every snap, and avoid multiple rushers. 

And he has still managed to burn people deep, even when pressured or having to evade a couple of blitzers.

Just to put some relevance, Philip Rivers would be absolutely destroyed behind this OL. 

Not saying he's a lock for OROY or anything, just setting the record straight so we can have a proper discussion. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by kramxel

[Bearerofnews]

2 hours ago, kramxel said:

People don't seem to realize just how trash our O-line really is... 

I'd put it up there, in contention with Cincy for worst OL. 

Herbert is being pressured A LOT, and has handled pressure surprisingly well, but it's not enough VS cover zero, when your OL gets beat across the board in max protect, like against Miami, or against a Patriots team that was generating pressure right after the snap, even without blitzing all that much. 

People haven't seen the Chargers much, and I don't blame them, it's not good football, but just glancing at stat sheets isn't enough to understand how dependant this team is on Herbert to be absolutely godlike on every snap, and avoid multiple rushers. 

And he has still managed to burn people deep, even when pressured or having to evade a couple of blitzers.

Just to put some relevance, Philip Rivers would be absolutely destroyed behind this OL. 

Not saying he's a lock for OROY or anything, just setting the record straight so we can have a proper discussion. 

Bengals passing blocking oline is considerably better. Not sure why anyone thinks otherwise.

Herbert with 79 hurries..... leads the league, this with a 2.4 pocket time. 2nd highest has 58 hurries. Also, 4th highest pressure rate.

[Xenos]

4 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

Bengals passing blocking oline is considerably better. Not sure why anyone thinks otherwise.

Herbert with 79 hurries..... leads the league, this with a 2.4 pocket time. 2nd highest has 58 hurries. Also, 4th highest pressure rate.

Another reason why Telesco needs to go IMO. If only the Spanos would invest in a sports science department. What’s Chip Kelly doing these days 😂

[Bearerofnews]

1 hour ago, Xenos said:

Another reason why Telesco needs to go IMO. If only the Spanos would invest in a sports science department. What’s Chip Kelly doing these days 😂

I mean Tom is investing in oline. At some point have to look at oline coaching.

 

[sryan66611]

16 hours ago, ET80 said:

I'd toss in a nod to James Robinson. 1,278 YFS (3rd in rushing with 968 yards) 9 TDs on a disaster of an offense where he's pretty much the only guy who can get anything done. 

From an undrafted to top 5 RB this season is impressive.

Crazy is Alfred Morris in his rookie season for the Skins had 1600 and 13 tds and didn't win it.  RGIII won that year.   

[INbengalfan]

10 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

Bengals passing blocking oline is considerably better. Not sure why anyone thinks otherwise.

 

No it's not.  Burrow was constantly under duress.  The starting LG just posted a 7.1 PFF score.  You continually try to prop Herbert by saying he has it so much worse.  Granted, I don't watch much of the Chargers, but the Bengals o-line is treading near all time worst territory.  Stop acting like Herbert is some other world QB.  He's very good.  If he wins OROY, I have no problem with it.  

[Xenos]

8 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

I mean Tom is investing in oline. At some point have to look at oline coaching.

 

It’s not just the investment, which I believe he has done to an extent. It’s also the player evaluation. This is what will ultimately doom him. Though yes, there was coaching issues to an extent. Not having a full offseason finally caught up to Campen.