Jump to content

CW21's 2021 NFL Draft Thread (Initial QB Rankings)


Recommended Posts

How do you explain Mac Jones and Kyle Trask being 5th round picks when both will be picked before the middle part of the 2nd round at worst?  

 

Looking back is always fun, saw your 2014 one and made me remember Jace Amaro.  I hated that **** coming out, thought he was wildly overrated.  Saw a video of him in a workout and just how he stood in the corner, with his body language and just came off as a stuck up dude that acted tough but was pretty freaking soft.  A lot of physical skills but did not have the desire or work ethic to be really great and obviously never was.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Ozzy said:

How do you explain Mac Jones and Kyle Trask being 5th round picks when both will be picked before the middle part of the 2nd round at worst?  

I think it's just his eval is that he wouldn't take them until round 5, that's all. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/14/2020 at 9:02 PM, NoDakViking said:

If you're the Vikings picking at 15/16,  and all three of Slater, Wyatt Davis,  and Vera-Tucker are all on the board,  who are you taking?

I'd go with Wyatt Davis.  Probably doesn't have the position versatility that you'd like to see out of your IOL, especially if you're drafting high.  But he's a true plug 'n play starter.  And probably a high-impact one right off the bat.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/14/2020 at 9:25 PM, Ozzy said:

How do you explain Mac Jones and Kyle Trask being 5th round picks when both will be picked before the middle part of the 2nd round at worst?

My opinion of where they should go.  Both are high quality backups, spot starters.  But I don't see long-term starters out of either of them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, CWood21 said:

My opinion of where they should go.  Both are high quality backups, spot starters.  But I don't see long-term starters out of either of them.

How is their play any different than Joe Burrow's last year?  Granted Burrow is a better competitor than both arguably, little more charismatic and more mobile than both granted.  But as a pocket passer, Trask and Jones are just as good as Burrow was and both have less talent than Burrow had offensively in terms of depth and overall talent.  Mac Jones has a better OL and RB core than Burrow or Trask no question, did but Burrow had easily better receivers top to bottom than either Florida and Bama especially since Waddle is out most the year for Bama..  And even though Trask was good last year both he and Jones made similar massive jumps in production just like Burrow did from one year to the following year.

 

Sure neither will be the #1 pick overall but I would be pretty shocked if at least one was not selected in the 1st round in the up coming draft.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Ozzy said:

How is their play any different than Joe Burrow's last year?  Granted Burrow is a better competitor than both arguably, little more charismatic and more mobile than both granted.  But as a pocket passer, Trask and Jones are just as good as Burrow was and both have less talent than Burrow had offensively in terms of depth and overall talent.  Mac Jones has a better OL and RB core than Burrow or Trask no question, did but Burrow had easily better receivers top to bottom than either Florida and Bama especially since Waddle is out most the year for Bama..  And even though Trask was good last year both he and Jones made similar massive jumps in production just like Burrow did from one year to the following year.

 

Sure neither will be the #1 pick overall but I would be pretty shocked if at least one was not selected in the 1st round in the up coming draft.

There's more to it then pure numbers.  I'm not sure how you can watch Burrow last year, and say that Mac Jones and Kyle Trask (Mac Jones in particular) is having the same kind of impact that Burrow had.  Trask is too mechanical for my liking.  I want a QB with some maneuverability.  I just don't see the ability to manipulate the pocket.  How much of that is a byproduct of limited experience as a starting QB, I couldn't answer.  But he's incredibly mechanical.  Mac Jones is a byproduct of the sheer talent around him.  He's not even the most talented QB in the QB room IMO.  He's playing with a top 10 prospect (DeVonta Smith) and probably another first round WR in Jaylen Waddle.  Najee Harris probably goes top 40, and his OL is pretty good.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

There's more to it then pure numbers.  I'm not sure how you can watch Burrow last year, and say that Mac Jones and Kyle Trask (Mac Jones in particular) is having the same kind of impact that Burrow had.  Trask is too mechanical for my liking.  I want a QB with some maneuverability.  I just don't see the ability to manipulate the pocket.  How much of that is a byproduct of limited experience as a starting QB, I couldn't answer.  But he's incredibly mechanical.  Mac Jones is a byproduct of the sheer talent around him.  He's not even the most talented QB in the QB room IMO.  He's playing with a top 10 prospect (DeVonta Smith) and probably another first round WR in Jaylen Waddle.  Najee Harris probably goes top 40, and his OL is pretty good.

Trask is actually manipulating the pocket well this year. He's not athletic, but he understands how to move within the pocket. Our RT, Jean Delance, is terrible. So Trask is having to climb the pocket pretty often to cover for Delance. I think you're too low on him. He has a Matt Schaub esque skillset. Doesn't have much mobility or a great arm, but he's just brilliant on the field. Also is very skilled (his eye discipline is especially impressive for a young QB) and has great touch. He has limitations, but he's a guy who can play good football in the NFL in the right situation.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, CWood21 said:

There's more to it then pure numbers.  I'm not sure how you can watch Burrow last year, and say that Mac Jones and Kyle Trask (Mac Jones in particular) is having the same kind of impact that Burrow had.  Trask is too mechanical for my liking.  I want a QB with some maneuverability.  I just don't see the ability to manipulate the pocket.  How much of that is a byproduct of limited experience as a starting QB, I couldn't answer.  But he's incredibly mechanical.  Mac Jones is a byproduct of the sheer talent around him.  He's not even the most talented QB in the QB room IMO.  He's playing with a top 10 prospect (DeVonta Smith) and probably another first round WR in Jaylen Waddle.  Najee Harris probably goes top 40, and his OL is pretty good.

There's not a QB in recent history that had as much talent around him as Burrow had last year.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BrownLeader said:

There's not a QB in recent history that had as much talent around him as Burrow had last year.

 

We just forgetting about Justin Fields here? All he's doing is riding on that supporting casts coattails. 

0*IPuQGCP98xTurmz8

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, CWood21 said:

There's more to it then pure numbers.  I'm not sure how you can watch Burrow last year, and say that Mac Jones and Kyle Trask (Mac Jones in particular) is having the same kind of impact that Burrow had.  Trask is too mechanical for my liking.  I want a QB with some maneuverability.  I just don't see the ability to manipulate the pocket.  How much of that is a byproduct of limited experience as a starting QB, I couldn't answer.  But he's incredibly mechanical.  Mac Jones is a byproduct of the sheer talent around him.  He's not even the most talented QB in the QB room IMO.  He's playing with a top 10 prospect (DeVonta Smith) and probably another first round WR in Jaylen Waddle.  Najee Harris probably goes top 40, and his OL is pretty good.

 

Joe Burrow in 15 games last year 5671 yards, 60 TDs and 6 INTs on 527 attempts at 76% completion in 2019

Joe Burrow in 13 games had 2894 yards, 16 TDs, 5 INTs on 379 attempts at 57.8% completion the year previous 2018

 

 

Kyle Trask currently in 10 games has 3717 yards, 40 TDs, 5 INTs on 369 attempts at 70.2% completion.  Put out a few more games and it is not up to Burrows but could get close if he had 5 more games.

Mac Jones currently in 10 games has 3321 yards, 27 TDs, 3 INTs on 284 attempts at 76.4% completion.  Same thing put more games on and it would look even better, he will get two possibly three more though.  

 

Tua in 9 games had 2840 yards, 33 TDs, 3 INTs on 252 attempts at 71.4% completion his final year in college with the injury issues.  

 

 

Like someone already pointed out, LSU last year had more receiving talent than any of these teams outside of Tua and what Bama had last year with Jeudy, Ruggs, Waddle and Smith which is clearly insane.  And some thought the same of Tua, oh he stinks because he is surrounded by so much talent and it makes him look better than he is, but he has done pretty damn well in the NFL regardless but still early in his career of course.  And again Jones is with the same OL basically that Tua had, granted a little better and same running backs, granted Harris is better this year but the receivers are not as dominating or as deep yet he is still crazy productive and actually more productive than Tua was in some ways with less than what Tua had.  Mac Jones also does not have the injury concerns Tua did.  The jump Mac has made from last year to this year in insane, and looks amazing as a full time starter and is only a JR.  

Have you seen Bryce Young play on Bama this year?  He has been nothing special at all and he has got a **** ton of playing time in blowout games yet is still barely even productive.  No way is he better than Mac Jones now and he would be lucky to get to the level Jones is playing at currently.  I have been quite disappointed in Young the hyped of freshman QB, at times it seems he can barely complete a pass, other true freshman QBs like the dude on Clemson show they are elite dominant talents, Young has not shown that at all so yeah Mac Jones is the most talented QB on the team right now.  

Sure he is playing with elite talent but yeah Justin Jefferson is doing more than fine as a rookie, is actually ripping up the NFL in many ways, Marshall will be a 2nd round pick at worse this year and Chase some thing is the best WR in the 2020 draft though I disagree.  Also had a 1st round pick at RB in Clyde of course and a few NFL picks on the OL.  So he had plenty talent as well, not to mention a coordinator on offense who is now in the NFL.  I do not think Trask or Jones can say the same, no way those two OCs will be NFL OCs next year like Brady was.

 

Are Jones and Trask as good as Burrow, no.  But they are a hell of a lot better than a 5th round pick based on how they are playing.  Sure maybe it is all nothing because few people are at the game and it is maybe less pressure packed, then again one could argue it is harder to get up for games and compete when no one is in the stands, because one has to be intrinsically motivated.  But both have made some outstanding passes and are freaking spot on almost every game they play this year.  They will be picked in the 1st round, one for sure and most likely both.  The Patriots would love to have a developmental QB for the future, so would the Steelers, and Panthers.  Then the obvious teams in search of one Jets, Bears maybe Dallas, maybe Washington, maybe the Saints and maybe Jacksonville.  So maybe will be in the game and might be too hard for them to pass up.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, .Buzz said:

We just forgetting about Justin Fields here? All he's doing is riding on that supporting casts coattails. 

0*IPuQGCP98xTurmz8

No I think that might have been Dwayne Haskins.

 

JK Dobbins and Mike Weber almost two 1000 yard rushers.  Paris Campbell, KJ Hill, Terry McLaurin, Johnnie Dixon, Binjimen Victor, Austin Mack, Chris Olave and Luke Farrell.  That could be potentially 8 guys who all got to the NFL at WR or TE.  They also had Jaelen Gill on that team as well, now on BC and has shown some next level promise as well.  

 

Sure Fields has talent this year on the OL for sure and tough RBs but Teague is not nearly as good as Dobbins was but Sermon has had his moments but still not as good as Dobbins either.  The receivers have been great but it is just Olave and Wilson really.  Haskins had way more talent around him than Fields does.  But still Tua destroys them all with basically four 1st round picks at receiver last year when he played.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Like someone already pointed out, LSU last year had more receiving talent than any of these teams outside of Tua and what Bama had last year with Jeudy, Ruggs, Waddle and Smith which is clearly insane.  And some thought the same of Tua, oh he stinks because he is surrounded by so much talent and it makes him look better than he is, but he has done pretty damn well in the NFL regardless but still early in his career of course.  And again Jones is with the same OL basically that Tua had, granted a little better and same running backs, granted Harris is better this year but the receivers are not as dominating or as deep yet he is still crazy productive and actually more productive than Tua was in some ways with less than what Tua had.  Mac Jones also does not have the injury concerns Tua did.  The jump Mac has made from last year to this year in insane, and looks amazing as a full time starter and is only a JR.  

I'm not sure I'd agree.  JaMarr Chase is probably the best WR prospect of the bunch, but I'd have Devonta Smith as #2.  And Justin Jefferson wasn't this special at LSU.  I didn't think he was going to be this good, this quick.  He was clearly the "other" WR in Baton Rouge.  I'd argue that it's comparable to what Mac Jones has in Tuscaloosa right now.  And for the record, I was never a fan of Thaddeus Moss.  Feel most of his draft value came because of his last name.  He was a Day 3 prospect.  Mac Jones is nowhere near the prospect that Tua was, and that's coming from someone who was lukewarm on Tua.  I thought he had an incredibly high floor, but limited upside.  If Mac Jones returns for his senior year, and he puts up big numbers without Devonta Smith and Jaylen Waddle maybe it'll be a different story.  I've seen this situation too many times.

7 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Have you seen Bryce Young play on Bama this year?  He has been nothing special at all and he has got a **** ton of playing time in blowout games yet is still barely even productive.  No way is he better than Mac Jones now and he would be lucky to get to the level Jones is playing at currently.  I have been quite disappointed in Young the hyped of freshman QB, at times it seems he can barely complete a pass, other true freshman QBs like the dude on Clemson show they are elite dominant talents, Young has not shown that at all so yeah Mac Jones is the most talented QB on the team right now.  

Bryce Young is more talented, which was the argument I made.  Not that he's the better QB.  It's clear the game is too fast for him right now, and he's better off sitting and learning. But in terms of their pro prospects, I'm more intrigued by Bryce Young than I am Mac Jones.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/14/2020 at 9:25 PM, Ozzy said:

Looking back is always fun, saw your 2014 one and made me remember Jace Amaro.  I hated that **** coming out, thought he was wildly overrated.  Saw a video of him in a workout and just how he stood in the corner, with his body language and just came off as a stuck up dude that acted tough but was pretty freaking soft.  A lot of physical skills but did not have the desire or work ethic to be really great and obviously never was. 

Always fun looking back at old rankings.  I'm more than willing to own up on them.  Jace Amaro was supposed to be that "new age" TE prospect.  I'm a big believer that situations are equally as important as talent themselves, and I really wonder what would have happened if he would have gone somewhere else other then the Jets.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...