MVS Appreciation Thread

[Fl0nkerton]

24 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

He's a very legit deep threat because of his speed. But MVS will never be taken seriously as a legit WR in the NFL if he doesn't become more consistent catching the ball. He has 33 receptions and 7-8 drops this season (PFF). So he's literally dropping 1 out of every 4 catchable targets. You simply cannot have that, especially when his drops generally aren't for gains or 5-10 yards, but 50+ yards. At this point, I'm not even asking him to make a contested catch on a deep pass where the CB is there and defends it. That would be asking too much of the guy. I simply want him to catch passes that most freshman college WRs are going to make on a consistent basis. 12 couldn't have handled the ball better to MVS on that pass last night. That literally had to be a top-5 easiest catch of MVS's career...yet, it was another drop. No one will ever consider him a legit WR in the league until that crap stops or at least starts happening maybe once every 10-15 receptions, not 1 in 4. 

[MacReady]

37 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

I mean none of those teams have Rodgers, it's literally that simple. Plus, even you would love to have Justin Jefferson on this team right now. You're not that crazy. 

Not at Jefferson’s cost.

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, Packer_ESP said:

I didn't even notice those numbers about Lazard. Maybe it's all psychological because MVS usually gets open deep so dropped passes are long gains or TDs so they are more frustrating and easier to remember?

That's exactly what it is. 

Waldo had a theory that a fanbase opinion of a player is permanently formed by the first 5 (or 3) big plays they're involved in. The body of work is irrelevant. It's all about those first big plays. 

Our fans (for Rodgers related reasons) don't care about him winning the vertical route for a TD. So the thing that sticks out is the long drops. 

It's the same thing with Kevin King. Nobody cares that he's turned in cards of 2 catches and less than 30 yards before garbage time the last two weeks, taking half his snaps against a pair of very good receivers in AJ Brown and Allen Robinson. He had bad plays to start his career so our fanbase will never like him. Therefore we focus on one missed tackle on a bubble screen in off coverage (that Kamal Martin missed too). 

[pacman5252]

1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

38/581 - 2 TD
26/452 - 2 TD
33/690 - 6 TD

A lot of you aren't ready to accept this, but MVS is a legitimate deep threat in this league. 

First in the league in yards per reception.

He just had a better year than all but one of Tedd Ginn's seasons.  Still, he had more yards per reception than Ginn's best season and a better catch percentage than Ginn's best season.

Compared to Nelson, MVS now has more receptions, yards and touchdowns at the same point in their careers.

The only reason none of you can see just how effective a deep threat he is is because you have literally zero capacity whatsoever for perspective.

You watch ESPN highlights and see the long Ted Ginn TD catches over his career and you assume he does that semi-regularly.  But over a 14 year career, Ginn had 33 touchdown receptions.

MVS is a legitimate deep threat. 

 

I am a MVS defender but comparing MVS to Jordy based on stats is a bad argument. Nelson had to earn his PT in a super deep receiving room (Driver/Jennings/Jones). MVS has been WR 2 or 3 his entire career. 

With that said, I do agree MVS is a legit deep threat and I really like him in a niche 3rd wr role.  In my 25 years of following this team, he might be the most explosive deep threat the team has had. MVS averaged 20.9 YPC this year which is absurd. The highest by any other Packer WR since I've followed the team was Jordy in 2011 (18.4) and that list includes a lot of really good players (Jordy, Freeman, Brooks, Jennings, Adams, Walker, Schroeder, Bradford, Cobb ... I just wish he had a route tree and didn't have butter hands

[Packerraymond]

52 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

He's a very legit deep threat because of his speed. But MVS will never be taken seriously as a legit WR in the NFL if he doesn't become more consistent catching the ball. He has 33 receptions and 7-8 drops this season (PFF). So he's literally dropping 1 out of every 4 catchable targets. You simply cannot have that, especially when his drops generally aren't for gains or 5-10 yards, but 50+ yards. At this point, I'm not even asking him to make a contested catch on a deep pass where the CB is there and defends it. That would be asking too much of the guy. I simply want him to catch passes that most freshman college WRs are going to make on a consistent basis. 12 couldn't have handled the ball better to MVS on that pass last night. That literally had to be a top-5 easiest catch of MVS's career...yet, it was another drop. No one will ever consider him a legit WR in the league until that crap stops or at least starts happening maybe once every 10-15 receptions, not 1 in 4. 

NFL defenses consider him a legit deep threat, and so does our team. That's all that matters.

Our petty fan base can think whatever.

[packfanfb]

33 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Taken seriously by whom?

+++

Man's 5th in the league in Yards per Target. 

56th in yards

29th in TDs

92nd in targets. 

+++

MVS has 6 drops on 33 catches per PFR.

Lazard has 5 drops on 33 catches per PFR. 

Yet nobody is riding Lazard for his hands. 

I mean, while we're on the topic, everyone was telling me Lazard was a legit No. 2 guy as well. Dude has 197 yards in 7 games since his return. Maybe he's still banged up, idk, but outside of a 5-56 game against Carolina, he's been MIA. 

[Packerraymond]

If I have to hear our fan base talk about a "legit #2" all off-season after the season we just had, I'm just going to retire from talking about football with anyone other than the voices in my head.

[Mr Bad Example]

38 minutes ago, Packer_ESP said:

I didn't even notice those numbers about Lazard. Maybe it's all psychological because MVS usually gets open deep so dropped passes are long gains or TDs so they are more frustrating and easier to remember?

I'm sure that definitely has something to do with it - "oh if MVS had caught that 50 yd bomb it would've blown the game open!" is a lot more frustrating than "oh, if Lazard had caught that hook we'd be in 3rd and 2 instead of 3rd and 8." 

 

[AlexGreen#20]

6 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

I mean, while we're on the topic, everyone was telling me Lazard was a legit No. 2 guy as well. Dude has 197 yards in 7 games since his return. Maybe he's still banged up, idk, but outside of a 5-56 game against Carolina, he's been MIA. 

Since Indy, Rodgers is averaging 29 attempts per game.

Adams is averaging 10 targets in that same stretch. 

The RBs are averaging 4 targets in that same stretch. 

So we have 15 targets to split between MVS, Lazard, Tonyan, and Lewis. 

Are you surprised that those 4 guys are seeing inconsistent balls? We're not throwing to them.

[{Family Ghost}]

I've mentioned Lazard's drops before .. he's got questionable hands as well.

[packfanfb]

45 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

That's exactly what it is. 

Waldo had a theory that a fanbase opinion of a player is permanently formed by the first 5 (or 3) big plays they're involved in. The body of work is irrelevant. It's all about those first big plays. 

Our fans (for Rodgers related reasons) don't care about him winning the vertical route for a TD. So the thing that sticks out is the long drops. 

It's the same thing with Kevin King. Nobody cares that he's turned in cards of 2 catches and less than 30 yards before garbage time the last two weeks, taking half his snaps against a pair of very good receivers in AJ Brown and Allen Robinson. He had bad plays to start his career so our fanbase will never like him. Therefore we focus on one missed tackle on a bubble screen in off coverage (that Kamal Martin missed too). 

So what's the endgame here? Just roll with it? Oh don't worry, he'll catch the next one? What if this happens in the NFCCG when we're down 27-23 to New Orleans with 2 minutes left? Just pray it's going to be the 3 out of 4 and not the 1 of 4 he's going to drop? I'm not saying throw the guy out the door, but some people on here go to such lengths to defend this guy and act like it's no biggie that he has potentially game-changing drops from time-to-time and it hasn't gotten any better during the course of the year. He dropped a huge one in Week 1, and here he is doing it in Week 17. 

I want nothing more than MVS to become a great player. But find me another WR in the league, who gets his snaps, who you would have less trust in right now to catch a big one with the game hanging in the balance. You literally have to hold your breath every time a ball is thrown his way. Don't act like you don't. 

[incognito_man]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

It's the same thing with Kevin King. Nobody cares that he's turned in cards of 2 catches and less than 30 yards before garbage time the last two weeks, taking half his snaps against a pair of very good receivers in AJ Brown and Allen Robinson. He had bad plays to start his career so our fanbase will never like him.

I'm not sure I see this. I think our fan-base likes Kevin King's ability - that's never been in question. I think everyone would be ECSTATIC if we can find a way to keep him here at a reasonable price.

[AlexGreen#20]

8 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

So what's the endgame here? Just roll with it? Oh don't worry, he'll catch the next one? What if this happens in the NFCCG when we're down 27-23 to New Orleans with 2 minutes left? Just pray it's going to be the 3 out of 4 and not the 1 of 4 he's going to drop? I'm not saying throw the guy out the door, but some people on here go to such lengths to defend this guy and act like it's no biggie that he has potentially game-changing drops from time-to-time and it hasn't gotten any better during the course of the year. He dropped a huge one in Week 1, and here he is doing it in Week 17. 

I want nothing more than MVS to become a great player. But find me another WR in the league, who gets his snaps, who you would have less trust in right now to catch a big one with the game hanging in the balance. You literally have to hold your breath every time a ball is thrown his way. Don't act like you don't. 

Yes, the endgame is that you roll with it. A deep throw to MVS remains the most efficient play for our offense. We should be throwing it more, not less. That's even factoring in the drops. 

If it happens again in New Orleans you knew what you had when you built the roster. Every player has weaknesses. Every decision is a gamble. Sometimes when you hit on 13 you bust, but you do it every time when the dealer has a face card up. 

2/3 for 87 yards is a very good game. That seems to be what you're missing in favor of this hypothetical. 

As far as you're 1-4, get the **** out of here with your bull**** numbers. He's got a drop percentage of 9.5%. is that bad? Obviously it's bad. But it's not 25%.

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, incognito_man said:

I'm not sure I see this. I think our fan-base likes Kevin King's ability - that's never been in question. I think everyone would be ECSTATIC if we can find a way to keep him here at a reasonable price.

You and I were reading a very different game thread yesterday. 

[{Family Ghost}]

19 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

So what's the endgame here? Just roll with it? Oh don't worry, he'll catch the next one? What if this happens in the NFCCG when we're down 27-23 to New Orleans with 2 minutes left? Just pray it's going to be the 3 out of 4 and not the 1 of 4 he's going to drop? I'm not saying throw the guy out the door, but some people on here go to such lengths to defend this guy and act like it's no biggie that he has potentially game-changing drops from time-to-time and it hasn't gotten any better during the course of the year. He dropped a huge one in Week 1, and here he is doing it in Week 17. 

I want nothing more than MVS to become a great player. But find me another WR in the league, who gets his snaps, who you would have less trust in right now to catch a big one with the game hanging in the balance. You literally have to hold your breath every time a ball is thrown his way. Don't act like you don't. 

As it is now we just have to hope he gets over the yips.  It just can't happen this time of year.