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2020 GDT Week #15 Steelers @ Bengals


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34 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

That is not completely true

For Ben, yes it is. 

34 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

The Steelers are not the only team that does this

At quarterback, yes they are.

I scour the practice reports because this is something that irks me and I dont find any other QB's getting a consistent DNP - Coaches Decision. Ben has a weekly off day no matter of injury or timeliness. He gets off on Wednesdays....that shouldn't be a thing due to the physical nature of his position and his importance to the overall success of the offense. 

And that's where my complaint stems from is the stress/physical nature of the position. You wanna give Decastro or Heyward a day off so they can stop the push/pull wear on their body or give their knees a break from the constant bending and squatting and firing off -- go for it. It is good for the backups there to get reps due to rotation on the DL and the physical nature of their positions bringing a higher possibility of down to down injury.  The Quarterback position at practice is lightyears different - physically - than these others. And even to just give rest that's not hard to manage in practice by limited some things I have already mentioned. 

34 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

If you recall in Coach Tomlin's rookie season, the big complaint was that the team was worn down and tired from the physical practices and the usual longevity of a season.

I do recall this, even went so far as to make the players write their names on their helmets. This is coaching 101 for a new coach to a team. Nothings free. It's easier to loosen up later in your career than it is to tighten up. The problem with the evolution of "players coaches" is that things do become free and its a major problem when you give away too much. Your starting QB should not have a weekly, scheduled day off.

38 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

Three games in twelve days without a full week to prepare for one opponent

That's fine -- if you are alluding to why its okay to give Ben rest.

Why did he get a DNP on Wednesday of week 3?

39 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

You have to the proper balance between starting reps and back-up reps with starters.

Not at the QB position. It's too important to the totality of your game for players that likely are not to play at all. WR, DL, DB's LB, etc -- a lot of those positions have rotational value due to their physical nature. QB does not. 1 player plays and due to rules protecting them, on the vast majority of games 1 is all you will ever need. Give that guy the majority of reps. Im talking 75/25 -- and all of those reps should be with the 1's. 

44 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

I believe that one of the major flaws of the NFL is not having larger rosters and things in place to develop younger players.

It is a flaw there there isnt a better way for developmental focus on players down roster. But, you mention earlier that the CBA has limited practice time. These two things work counter to each other. You cant have a bigger roster to get lower end guys practice time but limit practice. That's why its crucial to get the guys who need to get reps the reps. 

49 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

He actually is. He is not on the couch at home while others practice. e is on the field helping out and learning himself

Never suggested he wasn't physically there, but he isnt IN taking reps. Wanna get better at shooting a basketball? Shoot a basketball. Wanna get better at golf? Go golfing. Wanna get better at timing with your receivers? Throw with your receivers. Reps are how people get better and how they stay at consistent levels. Reps are how you grow and improve as an offense. Reps are how you connect with the other 10 people to be on the same page. 

I feel like I have explained how I understand that the older guys can get REPS but still be LIMITED physically in practice -- but maybe math will help. If, by example, you throw 100 individuals (reps) and run 100 plays (reps) get run on Wednesday practice -- Ben can surely participate in 25-35 of those each to keep repetition and flow of a total offense without destroying himself physically. While receivers are dropping balls, Ben is still having accuracy issues not hitting guys in stride. He has had constant issue throwing downfield. His mechanics are getting way outta wack. 

If he is sitting due to injury, I'm all for that. Take the time, get healed and lets roll. But when our offense struggles and we don't seem to have answers and everything goes inconsistent from passing to play calling and we don't evolve and instead run the same plays over and over again -- it lights a fire in me to see your starting QB get a "DNP - Coaches decision" next to their name in practice with the only explanation of "He gets off every Wednesday" 

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20 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:
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For Ben, yes it is. 

At quarterback, yes they are.

I don't claim to know everyone's practice schedule currently, nor do I have some of the time as I used to to investigate and study this. My point is that this is not a new practice or one unique to the Steelers. This has been done with several teams and several veterans QB's and other players over the years, including Brett Favre, Warren Moon, Dan Marino, and may others. If Sean Peyton and Frank Reich make Drew and Phillip practice everyday like rookies, more power to them. It's their team and their QB. I disagree with you or anyone else that would believe that is what's best for keeping an aging QB healthy and rested. 

 

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I scour the practice reports because this is something that irks me and I dont find any other QB's getting a consistent DNP - Coaches Decision.

As I said, I don't have the time to follow all 32 teams as I once did as well. However, my only point is that they may frame the very same action in a different way. It may not be coaches decision DNP. They can list any number of ailments and injuries as the reason. If I recall, the Patriots got questioned about doing this very thing in manipulating the injury report.

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Ben has a weekly off day no matter of injury or timeliness. He gets off on Wednesdays....that shouldn't be a thing due to the physical nature of his position and his importance to the overall success of the offense. 

We will agree to disagree. It is not about just Ben but any aging veteran is not going to practice the same. In fighting it is the same thing. Veteran fighters don't typically spar as much as younger fighter. They do the conditioning, but not necessarily the sparring. It is at the end of the day an individual choice and what people/coaches feel are best for their players/team.

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And that's where my complaint stems from is the stress/physical nature of the position. You wanna give Decastro or Heyward a day off so they can stop the push/pull wear on their body or give their knees a break from the constant bending and squatting and firing off -- go for it.

And they do! If you look, you will find the same coaches decision DNP on many other veteran's that they give time off to. Like it our not QB's are treated differently. It may not be right or fair, but because of the $$$ and nature of the position, they get the accolades and also more grief than they sometimes deserve. 

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It is good for the backups there to get reps due to rotation on the DL and the physical nature of their positions bringing a higher possibility of down to down injury.  The Quarterback position at practice is light years different - physically - than these others. And even to just give rest that's not hard to manage in practice by limited some things I have already mentioned. 

My friend you are missing the fact that rest is not just physical, but mental as well. As much as we all want everything to be fair and equitable, it isn't and in some cases shouldn't be with regards to veterans versus younger players.

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I do recall this, even went so far as to make the players write their names on their helmets. This is coaching 101 for a new coach to a team. Nothings free. It's easier to loosen up later in your career than it is to tighten up. The problem with the evolution of "players coaches" is that things do become free and its a major problem when you give away too much. Your starting QB should not have a weekly, scheduled day off.

Based on your example this team is way past first year coach 101. This is not like Coach Stefanski in Cleveland trying to create a winning culture. This HC has been around since 2006 (15th season).  The QB was here before he got here. There is no right or wrong answer just what gets the best results in the long run and overall. If your starting QB is coming off season ending surgery, having sat almost a year, and is 37-38 years old, I think it is wise to rest his body and even more importantly his mind and spirit as well. I came up in the same era, but it doesn't make how we were handled the best way. Again, no real right or wrong, just a different philosophy. 

 

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That's fine -- if you are alluding to why its okay to give Ben rest.

Why did he get a DNP on Wednesday of week 3?

Same answers and reasons as before. Long season, we will need a healthy and effective Ben in January and February. 

 

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Not at the QB position. It's too important to the totality of your game for players that likely are not to play at all. WR, DL, DB's LB, etc -- a lot of those positions have rotational value due to their physical nature. QB does not. 1 player plays and due to rules protecting them, on the vast majority of games 1 is all you will ever need. Give that guy the majority of reps. Im talking 75/25 -- and all of those reps should be with the 1's. 

Mason Rudolph or Josh Dobbs, yes absolutely. A new QB who comes in after Ben retires like say Mariota, Darnold, Wentz, Cam, Dak, or whomever... Yes they are vets, but new. Ben has been here longer than the HC. 

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It is a flaw there there isn't a better way for developmental focus on players down roster. But, you mention earlier that the CBA has limited practice time. These two things work counter to each other. You cant have a bigger roster to get lower end guys practice time but limit practice. That's why its crucial to get the guys who need to get reps the reps. 

No argument there. You are preaching to the choir. I have been one of the biggest advocates for expanding game day rosters and overall roster size for the safety of players as well.

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Never suggested he wasn't physically there, but he isn't IN taking reps. Wanna get better at shooting a basketball? Shoot a basketball. Wanna get better at golf? Go golfing. Wanna get better at timing with your receivers? Throw with your receivers.

Depends on how you learn. You certainly have to do it to improve it. Not questioning that. He is taking a day off, not not practicing at all. I am also a martial artist. I can learn some of my best techniques and other aspects by watching other instructors. I am not a novice, so how I observe technique, apply that technique and am able to utilize it (should I have to the technique for real) would be different from an inexperienced  martial artist. Same with the thought of letting a QB sit and learn behind a veteran. I prefer this approach to throwing guys out there and hoping for the results of Joe Burrow or Justin Herbert.  Both have had success, but I wonder how good they could really be and would develop sitting as Aaron Rogers did. Again, no right or wrong, just a difference in philosophy. I don't think the timing is the issue with the receivers. The missed reads, bad deep throws, and butterfingers are the issue. 

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Reps are how people get better and how they stay at consistent levels. Reps are how you grow and improve as an offense. Reps are how you connect with the other 10 people to be on the same page. 

Agree completely. He is getting reps, just not everyday. When AB and Bell were here, they got DNP's regularly as well (aside from the QB). Why?

I

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feel like I have explained how I understand that the older guys can get REPS but still be LIMITED physically in practice -- but maybe math will help. If, by example, you throw 100 individuals (reps) and run 100 plays (reps) get run on Wednesday practice -- Ben can surely participate in 25-35 of those each to keep repetition and flow of a total offense without destroying himself physically. While receivers are dropping balls, Ben is still having accuracy issues not hitting guys in stride. He has had constant issue throwing downfield. His mechanics are getting way outta wack. 

Don't disagree with what you explained. The why, I honestly believe is because the team got tired and sloppy. Early drops and miscues took this team out of rhythm and sync. If they are putting up 30 points in each of the past three games, this is not an issue. Some of it is Ben, but some of it is also the failures of others to execute. For the first time, Ben didn't point at his teammates, but rather himself. Whatever it takes, they all have to get better. I have seen some maturity and leadership from Ben that we have all waited and wanted to see from him years earlier. 

If he is sitting due to injury, I'm all for that. Take the time, get healed and lets roll. But when our offense struggles and we don't seem to have answers and everything goes inconsistent from passing to play calling and we don't evolve and instead run the same plays over and over again -- it lights a fire in me to see your starting QB get a "DNP - Coaches decision" next to their name in practice with the only explanation of "He gets off every Wednesday" 

My friend I greatly respect your football acumen and dialogue. We just differ in philosophy and that's okay too. If they don't get better, they will have until mini camp to rest, have a bye week (or I should say months). There is nothing drastic (in terms of ideology/ philosophy) that needs to happen with the Steelers to get back to winning. Make some plays, block, tackle, catch the damn ball and et back to playing Steelers football. When you get in a slump, sometimes you have to take a step back (away) to get your head right. The Steelers are tired (mentally and physically). They are challenged with figuring out how to get back on track. Success gives you energy. It may be as simple as that. They have three games to get it right before the elimination tournament begins. 

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8 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Highsmith must have had a really good coach at Charlotte. He's already a very refined player. I vaguely remember that Bud Dupree never had an OLB coach until he got to the Steelers. 

but  never really had one then either for a few years. The pass rush moves and run defence Highsmith has show is already good and he will get his stats. I think he is a steal in for a RD3 pick rookie already.  Lets see how he does closing out this season however many games that may be.

 

7 hours ago, warfelg said:

 

and as usual the OL can't run block, he forgot that part thankfully. But that's what we are for I guess, and we aren't the ones that make the adjustments to help anything on the field either.  More than anything, I would say the run game then the drops are the biggest issues. OL, and the drop team  of Hebron and dj . Of course, fichner is a given, not sure it's worth wasting bandwidth on him anymore.

People here can criticize Ben and his arm not being what it was (perhaps injury we don't know about, knee etc) but the major problem is the OL run blocking and the play calling. Fix that and this team might win some games.  I am a bit concerned about the bungles game, but the bungles really are a team even this current steelers team should defeat.

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16 hours ago, 3rivers said:

but  never really had one then either for a few years. The pass rush moves and run defence Highsmith has show is already good and he will get his stats. I think he is a steal in for a RD3 pick rookie already.  Lets see how he does closing out this season however many games that may be.

I think you’re right. Highsmith seems to be athletic enough to play. His pass rush moves are already nuanced enough to play, and might improve sponging off TJ. I think he’ll be at least above average. 

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was able to watch the past two games because of them marrying up with australian time but thankfully i won't be able to watch the whole thing this week so hopefully that bodes well!!

maybe i have been the jynx on the boys the past couple of weeks haha

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5 hours ago, Shady Slim said:

was able to watch the past two games because of them marrying up with australian time but thankfully i won't be able to watch the whole thing this week so hopefully that bodes well!!

maybe i have been the jynx on the boys the past couple of weeks haha

munchak leaving spelled the end of a legit OL and run game, you aren't the one to blame -_-

Without the threat of Burrow, will this become the classic tomlin trap game? Consider the OL inability to run block, it will only add to the  cause. 

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if we don't finish with 47 yards rushing, we will be 32 out of 32 teams for rushing yards.  When was the last time late in a season that we were last in the league in rushing?  Thats how bad it is. 

This game should give us an idea on how this team feels the urgency, because it could be a trap game but should be more of a rebound game if the team is going in the winning direction. I have no idea what to expect.  The OL has been really bad at run blocking , but do the bungles allow the run game to actually exist?

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16 minutes ago, August4th said:

 

so another year of this offence, with fichner9_9  

maybe they will get a new OL coach, blame the existing instead of bens picked HC fichner.

more of the same, just add  age and predictability that defences will learn and prepare for thus leaving less room for success next year when the schedule should also be more difficult 👏 . We won't have a good receiving RB as Connor will be gone.  Chances are the defence won't be as good either if Dupree, Haden  and or Sutton are gone . Highsmit looks legit, but reverting back to a bad secondary could be a reality . 

At least fire fichner, but at this stage it ain't happening. He was picked by ben and ben runs this organization as it is.  

Keep adding up wins vs bad and mediocre teams because they won't happen vs legit teams unless something out of the ordinary happens. Examples would be having a run game, staying with the run at a good percentage of time, no dropped passes , and ben throwing down the field with accuracy.  Maybe all this returns for the playoffs this year though :o

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