2020 GDT Week #15 Steelers @ Bengals

[3rivers]

I know it wouldn't happen but who else would like this:

Once ben loses next week and plays bad, fire fichner. Let ben play the Browns and after he gets another bad loss then play a different QB in the play offs. I know it won't happen, but if he hasn't thrown down the field for 6 weeks, it's time to get another QB in there and of course another OC.  Who would be the interim OC front he team right now though? Charlie batch isn't on the team is he?

[3rivers]

Just nice to see that the Fire Tomlin comments are now different and the root to the problem is being exposed.  Ben has made $66M these last 2 years, and for that he should be grateful and move on. Fichner actually needs to be fired before seasons end  but it won't happen since he is bens hand picked coach. Unless perhaps, that will allow ben to call all the plays  I could see that happening, ben wouldn't object to that would he?

Edited December 22, 2020 by 3rivers

[Dcash4]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Sorry for the double post but uhhhh....Cam Heyward just subtweeted Ben in a quote:

 

I just wanted to add the rest of his quote that came before that. Same tone -- feels significant. 

Quote

"I'm a firm believer that things don't change just by believing they will," Heyward. "Our work has to reflect that. We have to solve that in practice. Whatever it takes. That's not guaranteed."

I know I'm a broken record but.....Wednesday, DNP - Coaches Decision. Gonna start wearing on dudes playing their tails off and contributing weekly.

[August4th]

 

[warfelg]

36 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

I just wanted to add the rest of his quote that came before that. Same tone -- feels significant. 

I know I'm a broken record but.....Wednesday, DNP - Coaches Decision. Gonna start wearing on dudes playing their tails off and contributing weekly.

So here’s me honest split right now. Bens arm is shot so he needs to save reps. But yes right now he’s got to put in the work. I’m not sure what you do there. 

[Dcash4]

5 minutes ago, warfelg said:

So here’s me honest split right now. Bens arm is shot so he needs to save reps. But yes right now he’s got to put in the work. I’m not sure what you do there. 

I've said it before, but there are ways to save the arm and limit the throws while still being engaged in practice.

Right now though, his footwork is awful. He cant flip his hips from a left side read to a right side throw and vice versa. He isn't even making good reads or seeing a defense clearly. Constantly on a different page than his receivers. 

Its why I have been jumping on in, but he looks like a guy who isn't playing a lot of football right now, a 17 year vet shouldn't be flustered in the pocket after his first read is gone. He missed a full week mid-season with the Covid close contact, missed all of the practices before Washington with a knee (?), and still gets his weekly day off. That's a lot of reps missed for the offense, and since that time missed, he has been bad and the offense has fallen apart, getting less efficient weekly. 

Its one thing if he was still making good reads and had proper mechanics with his legs but being inaccurate. But his game is completely broken. He needs to put in the work or move out of the way right now. Worst part is that had we won, he could have been given a 2 week break essentially. 

If its that bad physically, they should shut him down this week completely and have him fully ready to participate for week 17 (or playoffs if we beat the colts). But if he is that broken down he cant even consider coming back in 2021. He needs to say its over. 

[warfelg]

Ok I see three 2021 paths here, most likely to least likely:

~ Make TJ play under the 5th year option, lose a bunch of guys (Bud, Hilton, Sutton, Juju, AV, Feiler, Conner) and pay the piper for all the restructures that have been done.  Have a good enough defense to win at least 5 games.  Be bad enough to get an OK pick, not bad enough for the top pick.  Go into 2022 with a crap ton of space when Ben, Pouney, Ebron, McDonald, Haden, Nelson all expire.

~ Ben retires/cut; we basically bring back this version of the team, but we spend the cap space on a QB, bac to this kick the can down the road some more.  Put the draft capitol around bringing in new OL pieces, new running backs. 

~ Ben retires/cut, we lose Pouncey, Ebron, McDonald extends, Haden extends, Nelson extends.  We pour the cap into the OL, retaining Bud, retaining Hilton, extend TJ.  Sell the farm for Zach Wilson or Justin Fields at QB.  Something like 2020 1st, 2020 3rd, 2021 1st, 2021 2nd, 2022 2nd.  Take a RB like Chubba Hubbard or Najee Harris in the 2nd.

[Dcash4]

41 minutes ago, warfelg said:

~ Sell the farm for Zach Wilson or Justin Fields at QB.  Something like 2020 1st, 2020 3rd, 2021 1st, 2021 2nd, 2022 2nd.  Take a RB like Chubba Hubbard or Najee Harris in the 2nd.

This intrigues me. I think you can view our team as having a lot of good, young talent at this point, specifically on defense. TJ, Minkah, Bush, Edmunds, Tuitt are an awesome core to build on and then adding Heyward, Haden, and Nelson for 2-3 more years is still a talented starter group. Potential offensive line of Chuks-Dotson-Pouncey?-Decastro-Banner is workable and cheap for a year, Claypool, DJ, Washington isn't a bad top 3 at receiver. 

There's pieces to take a shot and I wouldn't mind taking that shot at trading a significant draft haul for a top QB and retaining the strong defense and its main core and retooling the offense around the new QB. 

41 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Make TJ play under the 5th year option

Just a side note, but I never thought this wasn't the play. Sucks for a guy like TJ, but the financial impact is just too good for the team to not play the year 5 & franchise tag out. Its two really strong years of financial control and then you break bank in that second tag year. 

[turtle28]

4 hours ago, warfelg said:

I disagree @turtle28 that those are the only options right now.  Winston, Dalton, Newton are FA's who could be brought in (we can't afford Dak).  Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Sam Darnold, Carson Wentz, Gardner Minshew could all be had via trade.  Heck even beyond that, there's the option of trade a bunch of picks for Trask in the draft, pour some resources into signing players outside of that and say we're set like some other teams do. To me that's 9 options out there that would be an improvement over the current situation.

I don’t think all those QBs will be available and half of them you listed aren’t as good as Ben. Ben had a bad night, but he’s still a top 10 QB. I think his knee injury is a bigger problem than we all know. I blame his fumbled snap on the knee, looked like to me he couldn’t even bend down to get under Pouncey for the snap. He was getting punished in the pocket bc the OL had a crap night too and they took too long to establish the running game.

No doubt Ben had a bad night but, he’s still not a bad QB. They need to get this offense back to being balanced, they do that and it will help the passing game.

[Dcash4]

25 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

but he’s still a top 10 QB

[warfelg]

35 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

This intrigues me. I think you can view our team as having a lot of good, young talent at this point, specifically on defense. TJ, Minkah, Bush, Edmunds, Tuitt are an awesome core to build on and then adding Heyward, Haden, and Nelson for 2-3 more years is still a talented starter group. Potential offensive line of Chuks-Dotson-Pouncey?-Decastro-Banner is workable and cheap for a year, Claypool, DJ, Washington isn't a bad top 3 at receiver. 

There's pieces to take a shot and I wouldn't mind taking that shot at trading a significant draft haul for a top QB and retaining the strong defense and its main core and retooling the offense around the new QB. 

Just a side note, but I never thought this wasn't the play. Sucks for a guy like TJ, but the financial impact is just too good for the team to not play the year 5 & franchise tag out. Its two really strong years of financial control and then you break bank in that second tag year. 

Well, the benefit to doing the full extension is they could lower his 2021 cap hit with a deal done.

 

22 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I don’t think all those QBs will be available and half of them you listed aren’t as good as Ben. Ben had a bad night, but he’s still a top 10 QB. I think his knee injury is a bigger problem than we all know. I blame his fumbled snap on the knee, looked like to me he couldn’t even bend down to get under Pouncey for the snap. He was getting punished in the pocket bc the OL had a crap night too and they took too long to establish the running game.

No doubt Ben had a bad night but, he’s still not a bad QB. They need to get this offense back to being balanced, they do that and it will help the passing game.

He's not a top 10 QB.

[Dcash4]

3 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Well, the benefit to doing the full extension is they could lower his 2021 cap hit with a deal done.

True, but then you get hit the following year with the big number. Doing the 5th and the franchise, you get two more manageable numbers, then the smaller number -- then the $35M per. Its just punting the largest numbers down the road further, hoping to catch the new cable deal in prime time. Just really depends what you need at the time. But we may need that smaller number so you very well could right. Also, the longer you wait, the bigger his number gets. 

[turtle28]

34 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

His production says otherwise. He had a bad night, I think his knee is a bigger issue than people realize.

[turtle28]

36 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Well, the benefit to doing the full extension is they could lower his 2021 cap hit with a deal done.

 

He's not a top 10 QB.

That’s your opinion, he was a top 10 QB until the last few games and one game changes all that? People were saying he should be a dark horse candidate for MVP before the Ravens game & some were saying he should be comeback player of the year. 
 

The team needs to run the ball better like they did in the second half, stick to it and become more balanced, that will open up the passing game. That happens over the next 2 weeks and in the playoffs and the last 3 games are forgotten about. 
 

They needed humbled, well they got it. Now wake up and focus on getting the job done next week.

Edited December 22, 2020 by turtle28

[warfelg]

Statistics =/= good. He’s thrown only 4 passes more than ten yards between the number this year. His deep ball % is the worst it’s ever been. Most tipped passes too. The sooner you face Bens maybe closer to bottom ten than top then the happier your gonna be.