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Week 15: Panters at Packers


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There's a story that David Bakhtiari tells about Marcedes Lewis' first training camp practice with the Packers.*

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Its the first offensive run period of the season in full pads, and things are not going well. The defensive line is being played by guys who are not expected to make the team (eventually it would be realized that Tyler Lancaster is a useful NFL player for exactly his ability to make this kind of running hard), and still the starting offensive line is struggling to create holes for the backs. There's no push, and the combo blocks that are a staple of the McCarthy run offense are looking sloppy and rusty after an offseason of no group work. 

The play before, an undrafted outside linebacker had lined up between Bakhtiari and Jimmy Graham and had managed to slip between the two for the training camp equivalent of a Tackle For Loss. The two were supposed to come together and Bakhtiari would help Graham control the outside linebacker before moving up to the inside linebacker. As the play had evolved, Graham and Bakhtiari had failed to secure the outside linebacker before Bakhtiari had left, and the outside linebacker had slipped through. The coaches are pissed as hell and screaming at two of their highest paid offensive players for getting beat by a scrub. 

After the yelling stops, the full set of offensive skill players is swapped out and Marcedes Lewis gets down in his three point stance next to Bakhtiari. Bakhtiari touchs Marcedes Lewis on the knee and points to the outside linebacker and then the inside linebacker, indicating that it would be the same kind of combo block as the play previously. Rather than the "got it" of confirmation that is common with guys on that line, Marcedes Lewis looks over and says in his deep rumbling voice, "Just go on up." 

The meaning of the sentence is obvious, "Do not bother assisting me with the outside linebacker. Just go directly to the inside linebacker. I have this thoroughly under control." It is a wild declaration considering that the play before, the duo of Graham and Bakhtiari had gotten beat and the offense as a whole is already on thin ice with the coaches after a bad start to the session. Winning this rep isn't just a down block to seal, it will require Lewis beating the outside linebacker across his face without any kind of support and then holding his ground. Bakhtiari decides ultimately that he's going to slowplay it, he's going to still stay and offer help but he's going to be very quick to leave the block and move up.

At the snap of the ball he takes one step forward and reaches out with his left hand to assist, while tracking the inside linebacker he knows he'll have to run too very quickly. It takes him about a second to realize that his left hand still hasn't felt anything yet and the inside linebacker has frozen in place with ever widening eyes. As he turns to his left, he sees Marcedes Lewis has gotten himself entirely squared up with his first step and his hands have shot and landed directly on the inside of the young outside linebacker's shoulder pads. With no flow from the outside linebacker, the hole that the inside linebacker is being asked to cover is widening quickly with every step.

The motion that will ultimately define Marcedes Lewis' career with the Packers would occur for the first time in a Packer jersey. A pull forward to disguise his (perfectly legal) hand position, a hard push off from his play side leg to move the outside linebacker out of the gap, and then a violent twist of the hips to seal the outside linebacker out of the hole, had neatly but savagely removed the outside linebacker from the play. Startled by his sudden reversal of momentum, the outside linebacker had lost his footing and would have fallen backwards had he not still been held up by Lewis. The play would be this player's "Welcome to the NFL" moment over a very short career.

Bakhtiari takes an instant to recover from his shock at the ease of what he had just witnessed before chasing after the inside linebacker.  Without any support from his outside linebacker, the inside linebacker finds himself in full retreat, attempting to avoid the clean run that is about to occur. Jamaal Williams knifes through the large gap with ease and runs all the way to the Defensive Backs portion of the practice field before jogging back with a megawatt smile on his face. He bumps facemasks with Lewis and screams something indecipherable in excitement. Lewis responds with an equally loud, "That's how we do it", and if possible Williams' smile gets even wider.

On the opposite side of the ball, a conversation of similar volume but markedly different tone is taking place as the two linebackers are getting dressed down for a failure to hold his gap and then a failure to scrape over the top of the oncoming Bakhtiari. 

That one sequence served as a stark reminder that there was a different breed of Tight End in the building, that Big Dog wasn't Jermichael Finley, or Andrew Quarless, or Jimmy Graham, or any of the other big slot receivers. This was a man who was extremely capable of holding an edge or even winning an edge, and that was a portion of the Packers run game that now needed to be accounted for. 

 

I'm reminded of this story watching the Packers run the ball down the Panthers throat out of their strong 11 personnel. 5 consecutive plays starting at 6:33 in the second quarter. 

9HknXh3.gif

Marcedes Lewis is just going to beat Brian Burns across his face and lock him out. His ability to do that is going to allow Bakhtiari and Patrick to come with a clean double team that carried their DL 5 yards backwards right into the lap of the ILB. Jenkins and Turner are going to get similar movement off of a double team of Derrick Brown. This is dominating the line of scrimmage.

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IRUKNyw.gif

Brian Burns has as much hope of holding this gap as I would. Lining anybody up between Bakhtiari and Lewis is just an invitation to get beat. Anybody athletic enough to move laterally with Bakhtiari is far too small to handle the sledge hammer blow that's coming from Lewis.

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SM6PurZ.gif

Guys are winning blocks too thoroughly. Turner gets this reach block so easily that it actually closes down the attempted run gap. Jenkins and Patrick get so much movement off of the double team that Jenkins has to come back to block the Safety and can't.

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9TbOU15.gif

The next time you're having a bad day at work, I want you to think about #31 here who is on the receiving end of Billy Turner's pull.

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emmU3r4.gif

Not even that impressive of a run, the Panthers are going to blow outside contain here badly. EQ runs the slant block and takes the CB and Safety out. Lewis locks down the playside DE and Jones skips in for a TD. 

+++

 After rewatching this game, there was zero indication at any point that the Panthers were willing or capable to stop the run out of our 11 personnel. We could have run with Adams, Lazard, MVS, Lewis, Jones for 300 yards. If we were stopped, it was because we stopped ourselves. 

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*It's been a minute since I've heard it, so I'm filling in some of the gaps with my own personal recollection, details might be wrong, but the gist is correct.

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Yeah I just don't know why so many people are obsessed with those slender man EDGEs. 

After watching Matthews get old and lose his speed and agility, I would never want to invest heavily in one of those types of EDGE rushers again.

Can anyone think of many EDGE rushers under 260 who have any kind of longevity?

Just went back and looked for some.  Von Miller is one, but he's not coming back.  Not near where he was two years ago, the last time he had a double digit sack season.
Robert Quinn is cooked. 
Melvin Ingram is cooked.

This is true for most EDGE, but especially so the lighter they are.  The ones who rely predominantly on finesse, speed and agility over strength don't typically last long.  James Harrison is the only one I can think of who lasted past 30 while under 260, but I have a hard time believing that man was ever at 242.  I guess he's only six feet tall though, so that makes sense. 

 

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1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

There's a story that David Bakhtiari tells about Marcedes Lewis' first training camp practice with the Packers.*

I'm reminded of this story watching the Packers run the ball down the Panthers throat out of their strong 11 personnel. 5 consecutive plays starting at 6:33 in the second quarter. 

9HknXh3.gif

Marcedes Lewis is just going to beat Brian Burns across his face and lock him out. His ability to do that is going to allow Bakhtiari and Patrick to come with a clean double team that carried their DL 5 yards backwards right into the lap of the ILB. Jenkins and Turner are going to get similar movement off of a double team of Derrick Brown. This is dominating the line of scrimmage.

+++

IRUKNyw.gif

Brian Burns has as much hope of holding this gap as I would. Lining anybody up between Bakhtiari and Lewis is just an invitation to get beat. Anybody athletic enough to move laterally with Bakhtiari is far too small to handle the sledge hammer blow that's coming from Lewis.

+++

SM6PurZ.gif

Guys are winning blocks too thoroughly. Turner gets this reach block so easily that it actually closes down the attempted run gap. Jenkins and Patrick get so much movement off of the double team that Jenkins has to come back to block the Safety and can't.

+++

9TbOU15.gif

The next time you're having a bad day at work, I want you to think about #31 here who is on the receiving end of Billy Turner's pull.

+++

emmU3r4.gif

Not even that impressive of a run, the Panthers are going to blow outside contain here badly. EQ runs the slant block and takes the CB and Safety out. Lewis locks down the playside DE and Jones skips in for a TD. 

+++

 After rewatching this game, there was zero indication at any point that the Panthers were willing or capable to stop the run out of our 11 personnel. We could have run with Adams, Lazard, MVS, Lewis, Jones for 300 yards. If we were stopped, it was because we stopped ourselves. 

+++

*It's been a minute since I've heard it, so I'm filling in some of the gaps with my own personal recollection, details might be wrong, but the gist is correct.

Yeah that's what I saw as well. LaFleur is very stat conscious and I think he wanted to roll Carolina's bad secondary and build Rodgers lead in the MVP race. 

We would've won probably 38-10 if we just ran the ball 60-70% of the time. The safeties on film are bailing to the deep halves at the snap, even on PA plays. They simply didn't care how many yards they gave up on the ground.

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1 hour ago, incognito_man said:

I'm curious why you think this? Not arguing, asking.

I remember him mentioning something early in the year about being disappointed Tae didn't get 1 more catch for the team record. He knew when Aaron was at 400. I remember him saying at an earlier game that they made it a point to get Lewis a TD in a game. We always seem to get Tonyan RZ targets after he gets passed for the league lead for TEs.

He just schemes looks for guys in the RZ that seem very planned. Something Mac never did. Seems to care about that stuff, and rewarding guys for plays in past games or knows when they're close to records. Like how many coaches are going to scheme a play for Malik Taylor to get a TD? I'm saying it as a positive, because if it's true I'm sure it's appreciated in the locker room.

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34 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I'm saying it as a positive, because if it's true I'm sure it's appreciated in the locker room.

Agreed. Fact that he acts on these matters is a good thing. IMO how "stat conscious" he is would be determined if he realizes these things on his own / going into a game - or acts on them when an assistant / player brings it to his attention. In either case, the end result (or effort) is a good thing.

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42 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I remember him mentioning something early in the year about being disappointed Tae didn't get 1 more catch for the team record. He knew when Aaron was at 400. I remember him saying at an earlier game that they made it a point to get Lewis a TD in a game. We always seem to get Tonyan RZ targets after he gets passed for the league lead for TEs.

He just schemes looks for guys in the RZ that seem very planned. Something Mac never did. Seems to care about that stuff, and rewarding guys for plays in past games or knows when they're close to records. Like how many coaches are going to scheme a play for Malik Taylor to get a TD? I'm saying it as a positive, because if it's true I'm sure it's appreciated in the locker room.

I think this is very true and significant. Look at AR research would show how he responds to throwing TD's versus the team running them in. He plays differently when he's engaged in well padding his stats, same with others.

As long as MLF is also looking at getting others involved while still hitting these milestones i think it will continue to bode well for him and the team. 

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7 minutes ago, Leader said:

Agreed. Fact that he acts on these matters is a good thing. IMO how "stat conscious" he is would be determined if he realizes these things on his own / going into a game - or acts on them when an assistant / player brings it to his attention. In either case, the end result (or effort) is a good thing.

The Packers media relations group is very up on records. LaFleur, Rodgers, Adams, Z, Crosby, and probably anybody near breaking a record gets an update weekly. 

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9 minutes ago, Leader said:

Agreed. Fact that he acts on these matters is a good thing. IMO how "stat conscious" he is would be determined if he realizes these things on his own / going into a game - or acts on them when an assistant / player brings it to his attention. In either case, the end result (or effort) is a good thing.

I would hope that the team has analytics in behind the scenes and all of these things are well known and present to the coaching staff much like how the defense plays things. MLF really seems to have his finger on the pulse that's for sure and GB has a strong front office. Understanding what motivates players as far as stats, pay among other things is a part of the game. Further throughout the game knowing when to do it and stay away from it is huge as well. 

Things like these and knowning when to press and push versus merely going along is what separates the ok coaches from the truly great. 

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55 minutes ago, PACKRULE said:

I would hope that the team has analytics in behind the scenes and all of these things are well known and present to the coaching staff much like how the defense plays things. MLF really seems to have his finger on the pulse that's for sure and GB has a strong front office. Understanding what motivates players as far as stats, pay among other things is a part of the game. Further throughout the game knowing when to do it and stay away from it is huge as well. Things like these and knowning when to press and push versus merely going along is what separates the ok coaches from the truly great. 

And prevents a HC from giving a SB TD to a Refrigerator Perry type over Walter Payton.

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