GDT Week 6 - Packers @ Vikings

[CWood21]

15 hours ago, LargeFarva said:

You don't sound like a realist. You sound like a delusional, irrational, catastrophizing lunatic.

Let's stick to discussing football guys.

[CWood21]

16 hours ago, strat1080 said:

In my eyes the only elite players on this team are Rodgers and Daniels. You can sit there and trash talk me if you want but this just isn't a Super Bowl caliber team. I hope I'm wrong.

As others have said, how many elite players are on any given team?

[skibrett15]

15 hours ago, SpeightTheVillain said:

I totally disagree. You just named teams with great QBs. Montana? Young? Ryan? Early 2000s McNabb? All great QBs. Not all HOF quality but great in their primes.

Calvin's Lions. Green's Bengals, Hopkins' Texans are much better examples. There is absolutely no sense in dropping a large portion of your cap in one wideout. They touch the ball at most 10 times a game.

 

Your teams don't have good not great qbs, Stafford was not even the QB he is now when he had Calvin.  Dalton and Houston were bad QB teams with great WRs, and they still made playoffs. 

Montana, Young, McNabb, Ryan... not as good as their WR counterparts.  "Good not great" was probably the wrong phrasing for those guys at QB. More important position, sure, but the WRs were the better players when measured against their peers.

How about the SB losing Arizona Cardinals with an aging statue Kurt Warner.  Those were WR dominated teams, Larry Fitz was far and away the best player on offense in that entire playoffs.

You do realize that Jones/Hopkins/Antonio Brown make just 4-5 million more than Jordy/Cobb.  That's not a number that's really that punishing, especially when you have a huge talent edge and a field tilter who needs to be doubled.  You can have Jordy/Cobb or Jones/Sanu for the same price.

This narrative that you "can't win with a top paid WR" is bogus.  Falcons should have won with an all time great offense that featured Jones as their best weapon, a good but not all time great qb in Ryan, and a very good O-line.

[skibrett15]

21 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

As others have said, how many elite players are on any given team?

Perry when healthy is close for me.  If someone in the secondary ascends to an elite level, we have enough talent.  Need a jump from Randall/HHCD/House/King to where one is just balling out and the rest are more than just "solid"

 

[Norm]

15 hours ago, LargeFarva said:

You don't sound like a realist. You sound like a delusional, irrational, catastrophizing<< lunatic.

Cool word. Lol

[Shanedorf]

I've read here and elsewhere that Zimmers' defense really gives Rodgers/Packers fits.

More from The Dope Sheet:

In 18 games as the starter against the Vikings (including playoffs),Rodgers has completed 400 of 586 passes (68.3 percent)

For a total of 4,810 yards, 40 TDs and 6 INTs with a passer rating of 111.7

His passer rating is the second highest of any opposing quarterback (min. 100 att.) vs. Minnesota (Kurt Warner, 112.4).

Rodgers has recorded a 100-plus passer rating in 12 of his 18 starts against the Vikings, including the postseason

 

I re-watched the Packers-vikes game from last December.

vikes were really struggling with Jordy, who went off for 9 catches, 154 yds and 2 TDs, most of it in the first half.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201612240gnb.htm

[Acrid Josher]

19 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

I've read here and elsewhere that Zimmers' defense really gives Rodgers/Packers fits.

More from The Dope Sheet:

In 18 games as the starter against the Vikings (including playoffs),Rodgers has completed 400 of 586 passes (68.3 percent)

For a total of 4,810 yards, 40 TDs and 6 INTs with a passer rating of 111.7

His passer rating is the second highest of any opposing quarterback (min. 100 att.) vs. Minnesota (Kurt Warner, 112.4).

Rodgers has recorded a 100-plus passer rating in 12 of his 18 starts against the Vikings, including the postseason

 

I re-watched the Packers-vikes game from last December.

vikes were really struggling with Jordy, who went off for 9 catches, 154 yds and 2 TDs, most of it in the first half.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201612240gnb.htm

It's true in total Rodgers has been great vs the Vikings, but he has been worse since Zimmer took over in 2014:

124/199 (62.3%), 1428 yards, 13 td/2 int, 19 sacks, 101.5 passer rating.

Still very good, but not quite as good as the entire stretch.

 

If we look at just the away games there is a clear benefit to MN playing at home (including in there several at the Gophers stadium):
56/100 (56%), 634 yards, 5 td/1 int, 8 sacks, 87.7 passer rating (3 games).

 

The Vikings and their fans always see this rightly as one of, if not THE, most important regular season game on the schedule and the results show in tougher play.

[skibrett15]

I would just add that last 2 years there's been one blowout and a 13 or 14 point stinker from the offense vs Minnesota

[Rodjahs12]

The offense is rolling right now and frankly I don't expect Minnesota to have nearly the success against it that they've had in the past. Many forget that the last few times we've struggled to move the ball against them, the offense was struggling to move the ball week in and week out. This season is different and I just can't see any fathomable way Keenum can keep pace with this offense especially without Diggs or Cook. 

[Shanedorf]

Perry played vs the vikes last December with a club on his hand, he'll do it again this year. If this was yesteryear, I'd love to see him "Deacon Jones"  the OT in the earhole with that thing....

Last year's Packers defense vs the vikes included Datone, Peppers, Hyde, Gunter, Guion -  all have been replaced for this years' match-up

Clay will likely have more OLB responsibilities on Sunday with Brooks out. Not sure who wears the green- dot helmet with Burnett out, maybe HaHa ?

[SassyFascistAlphaGuy]

Some people confuse "very good" with "elite" when describing players. Elite are the best of the best in the NFL. Aaron Rodgers? Elite. Alex Smith? Not elite. Le'Veon Bell? Elite. Matt Stafford? Not elite. When describing the "elite" players in the NFL, it should be an extremely short list. Elite players are guys like Antonio Brown, Aaron Rodgers, Aaron Donald, Earl Thomas, Gronk, Luke Kuechly, JJ Watt. Elite players are guys that can takeover and dominate a game regardless of the competition they face. 

The Packers have four elite players (Rodgers, Daniels, Bakhtiari, Bulaga)

The Falcons have three (Ryan, Julio, Freeman)

The Seahawks have four (Sherman, Thomas, Kam, Wagner)

The Broncos have three (Von, Harris Jr., Talib) 

The Cowboys have five (S. Lee, E. Elliot, T. Smith, T. Frederick, Z. Martin)

The Patriots have four (Gronk, Brady, McCourty, Hightower)

The Chiefs have three (E. Berry, T. Kelce, M. Peters)

The rest have a few scattered on their teams along with a lot of "very good" tier players. To think the rest of the NFL has a huge talent disparity over GB is pure delusion. 

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, Rodjahs12 said:

The offense is rolling right now and frankly I don't expect Minnesota to have nearly the success against it that they've had in the past. Many forget that the last few times we've struggled to move the ball against them, the offense was struggling to move the ball week in and week out. This season is different and I just can't see any fathomable way Keenum can keep pace with this offense especially without Diggs or Cook. 

I don't see it. Minny's defense is too sound and they know how to play Rodgers at home. I think its going to be one of those games where we keep asking "why is no one open," we struggle running the ball, and have to fight for every point. 

Field position is going to be huge this game. Not expecting many 80 yard drives by either offense. Minny is going to try to pin us deep and let their front 4 try to cause a fumble or INT. 1 or 2 turnovers by either team probably decides this one.

I also think this is the game where we either get the huge PR by Davis or give one up to Sherels. Just a feeling.

[packfanfb]

Pretty sure I saw a photo of Kevin King getting off the plane in Minny. Doesn't he have to pass the protocol to fly?

[strat1080]

20 hours ago, LargeFarva said:

You don't sound like a realist. You sound like a delusional, irrational, catastrophizing lunatic.

I guess we'll wait and see if our defense can hold up over the course of the year and in the playoffs. The two times our defense has faced quality offenses, they failed. Point blank. I don't know what games you are watching.

Sorry for not believing that a defense ranked #20 in scoring defense is actually much better than what the numbers indicate. We aren't very good dude. The two legitimate offenses we've played this year moved the ball at will and both topped 30+ points against us. We are an average defense at best. Our red zone defense is pathetic. 2nd worst in the NFL. But I'm the delusional one. I'm posting actual hard numbers to support my case while you just sling mud at me.

[strat1080]

1 hour ago, packfanfb said:

I don't see it. Minny's defense is too sound and they know how to play Rodgers at home. I think its going to be one of those games where we keep asking "why is no one open," we struggle running the ball, and have to fight for every point. 

Field position is going to be huge this game. Not expecting many 80 yard drives by either offense. Minny is going to try to pin us deep and let their front 4 try to cause a fumble or INT. 1 or 2 turnovers by either team probably decides this one.

I also think this is the game where we either get the huge PR by Davis or give one up to Sherels. Just a feeling.

But don't you know. According to some folks on here, our defense is just as good as Minnesota's. What a crock.