THE DUKE Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 I definitely think LB for JOK, but one that can cover the stud TE's and some slot WR even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Jeezla said: I don't think JOK moves as smoothly in coverage as Adams. I like the player a lot, but I don't see Jamal Adams 2.0 or a Kam 2.0, I see a LB, like Roquan. So you mean to tell me at 6'1 217 you see him as an inside linebacker (something he didn't do at ND)? You do realize that Roquan is 230 and has played the position before at a high level? I think its foolish for a team to take a guy who's never played the position and isn't used to the physicality on a down to down basis and just expect him to be successful because he is "athletic". I highly doubt he can take on Quinton Nelson down in and down out and be successful defending the run in this league. I personally would run right at him until he can prove he is physical enough to hold up Edited April 28, 2021 by MSURacerDT55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said: So you mean to tell me at 6'1 217 you see him as an inside linebacker (something he didn't do at ND)? You do realize that Roquan is 230 and has played the position before at a high level? I think its foolish for a team to take a guy who's never played the position and isn't used to the physicality on a down to down basis and just expect him to be successful because he is "athletic". I think JOK needs to add 10 lbs, but yes, I see him as an ILB. Think he'd get roasted in man coverage as a safety, and be just ok in zone. LB is where he can excel. He's basically a better tackling Deion Jones once he adds 5 lbs. 3/4 ILB or 4-3 olb is what i see. Edited April 28, 2021 by Jeezla 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Jeezla said: I think JOK needs to add 10 lbs, but yes, I see him as an ILB. Think he'd get roasted in man coverage as a safety, and be just ok in zone. LB is where he can excel. He's basically a better tackling Deion Jones once he adds 5 lbs. 3/4 ILB or 4-3 olb is what i see. This is great conversation, so with all of that said then why not just take Zaven Collins who is already 6'5 260, a comparable athlete and was the highest rated coverage linebacker ever per PFF? Edited April 28, 2021 by MSURacerDT55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 1 minute ago, MSURacerDT55 said: This is great conversation, so with all of that said then why not just take Zaven Collins who is already 6'5 260 and was the highest rated coverage linebacker ever per PFF? I would take Zaven over JOK. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said: This is great conversation, so with all of that said then why not just take Zaven Collins who is already 6'5 260, a comparable athlete and was the highest rated coverage linebacker ever per PFF? Well, I imagine most of us don't really care about PFF's ratings. We evaluate with our own eyes. I don't think Collins is in JOK's class in terms of movement skills or speed or in terms of coverage ability. JOK is a guy who is capable of taking a slot WR in M2M and not being made to look the fool. He's a rare sort of athlete. That doesn't mean that he's a better fit in every scheme than Collins, but if I am looking for a rangy LB who can cover and won't be relied on to bang between the tackles, he's the guy. EDIT: Just saw the discussion was about ILBs. Yeah, that's a different story. Edited April 28, 2021 by jrry32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Well, I imagine most of us don't really care about PFF's ratings. We evaluate with our own eyes. I don't think Collins is in JOK's class in terms of movement skills or speed or in terms of coverage ability. JOK is a guy who is capable of taking a slot WR in M2M and not being made to look the fool. He's a rare sort of athlete. That doesn't mean that he's a better fit in every scheme than Collins, but if I am looking for a rangy LB who can cover and won't be relied on to bang between the tackles, he's the guy. EDIT: Just saw the discussion was about ILBs. Yeah, that's a different story. As a pure LB, I take Zaven over JOK in any scheme. If I'm using him more like a box safety that occasionally covers WR's throughout the game ala Kam, then it's JOK and it's not close, but I still think having JOK cover NFL WR's in man is foolish. JOK has rare movement for a LB, but he has just good movement for a safety, and I don't even like my pure safeties covering WR's in man. If Malcolm Jenkins was covering a guy in man, that guy was getting a catch for a 1st down. If he's smashing gaps, stacking/shedding/running side to sideline through front 7 traffic, and just doing zone drops, then give me Zaven. Edited April 28, 2021 by Jeezla 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jeezla said: As a pure LB, I take Zaven over JOK in any scheme. If I'm using him more like a box safety that occasionally covers WR's throughout the game ala Kam, then it's JOK and it's not close, but I still think having JOK cover NFL WR's in man is foolish. JOK has rare movement for a LB, but he has just good movement for a safety, and I don't even like my pure safeties covering WR's in man. If Malcolm Jenkins was covering a guy in man, that guy was getting a catch for a 1st down. If he's smashing gaps, stacking/shedding/running side to sideline through front 7 traffic, and just doing zone drops, then give me Zaven. I wouldn't. I'd rather have JOK as a 4-3 OLB in a number of schemes. And the idea isn't that you use JOK to cover WRs consistently. Rather, the idea is that he's a very valuable player to have when offensive schemes are able to isolate that matchup and force you to cover a slot WR with a LB. Plus, his ability to handle TEs and twitchy HBs will make him very valuable. When you add his range and ability as a blitzer, I think he's a dynamite 4-3 OLB. He's a better version of Deion Jones imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, jrry32 said: I wouldn't. I'd rather have JOK as a 4-3 OLB in a number of schemes. And the idea isn't that you use JOK to cover WRs consistently. Rather, the idea is that he's a very valuable player to have when offensive schemes are able to isolate that matchup and force you to cover a slot WR with a LB. Plus, his ability to handle TEs and twitchy HBs will make him very valuable. When you add his range and ability as a blitzer, I think he's a dynamite 4-3 OLB. He's a better version of Deion Jones imo. It's basically would you rather have harder hitting Deion Jones or super-sized and probably more athletic D'Qwell Jackson/DeMeco Ryans? And don't get me wrong, I love JOK, and he is a rare breed, but so is a 260 lb valedictorian with some decent stop/start agility. If a WR is running a cross route behind him, the QB might not even see him because he's eclipsed by Zaven. Edited April 28, 2021 by Jeezla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 11 minutes ago, Jeezla said: It's basically would you rather have harder hitting Deion Jones or super-sized and probably more athletic D'Qwell Jackson/DeMeco Ryans? And don't get me wrong, I love JOK, and he is a rare breed, but so is a 260 lb valedictorian with some decent stop/start agility. If a WR is running a cross route behind him, the QB might not even see him because he's eclipsed by Zaven. In today's NFL, Deion Jones. Zaven is a talented dude. There are certainly schemes and situations where he's more valuable than JOK. But with how offenses are evolving, there are also a lot of schemes and situations where JOK is more valuable. If I'm looking for a 4-3 OLB, I'm likely taking JOK. JOK is an eraser of sorts in coverage, can spy athletic QBs, is deadly as a blitzer, and has the potential to be a real weapon against the outside-zone rushing attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 1 hour ago, jrry32 said: I wouldn't. I'd rather have JOK as a 4-3 OLB in a number of schemes. And the idea isn't that you use JOK to cover WRs consistently. Rather, the idea is that he's a very valuable player to have when offensive schemes are able to isolate that matchup and force you to cover a slot WR with a LB. Plus, his ability to handle TEs and twitchy HBs will make him very valuable. When you add his range and ability as a blitzer, I think he's a dynamite 4-3 OLB. He's a better version of Deion Jones imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 2 hours ago, jrry32 said: In today's NFL, Deion Jones. Zaven is a talented dude. There are certainly schemes and situations where he's more valuable than JOK. But with how offenses are evolving, there are also a lot of schemes and situations where JOK is more valuable. If I'm looking for a 4-3 OLB, I'm likely taking JOK. JOK is an eraser of sorts in coverage, can spy athletic QBs, is deadly as a blitzer, and has the potential to be a real weapon against the outside-zone rushing attacks. Sounds exactly like what the Raiders need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techbert Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Jeezla said: As a pure LB, I take Zaven over JOK in any scheme. If I'm using him more like a box safety that occasionally covers WR's throughout the game ala Kam, then it's JOK and it's not close, but I still think having JOK cover NFL WR's in man is foolish. JOK has rare movement for a LB, but he has just good movement for a safety, and I don't even like my pure safeties covering WR's in man. If Malcolm Jenkins was covering a guy in man, that guy was getting a catch for a 1st down. If he's smashing gaps, stacking/shedding/running side to sideline through front 7 traffic, and just doing zone drops, then give me Zaven. I think Zaven is an edge rusher who can drop into coverage. Would not shock me if a 4-3 team picks him for RDE and dusts off the zone blitz packages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted April 29, 2021 Author Share Posted April 29, 2021 13 hours ago, Techbert said: I think Zaven is an edge rusher who can drop into coverage. Would not shock me if a 4-3 team picks him for RDE and dusts off the zone blitz packages. Zaven Collins is a blitzer, he's not an EDGE guy. He has no pass rush moves, no plan whatsoever when rushing. I think it would be foolish to make him an EDGE rusher. He's an ILB through and though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 Just now, MOSteelers56 said: Zaven Collins is a blitzer, he's not an EDGE guy. He has no pass rush moves, no plan whatsoever when rushing. I think it would be foolish to make him an EDGE rusher. He's an ILB through and though. Get him and JOK on a team with a DC who gets creative and watch both feast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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