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Weak 15: Jalen Hurts our Draft position


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1 minute ago, EaglesPeteC said:

Barnett can be a disappointing 14th pick and a good and valuable player. These two things can be true at once 

I think those two things can be true but I do no think they are true when talking about Barnett. I don't think he is that valuable and very average, especially when factoring in all the ridiculous penalties he commits.

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20 minutes ago, EaglesPeteC said:

Barnett can be a disappointing 14th pick and a good and valuable player. These two things can be true at once 

Sure. At like a rotational price. He’s not reserving himself at a discount. The price we pay and the price he thinks he’s worth will be naturally out of wack. Someone will give him more money in a better cap situation. Problem is with us is that there’s nothing to replace him with. I love Sweat but he’s rotational as well. Can they just split a salary? That would work. 

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3 hours ago, Jroc04 said:

Sure. At like a rotational price. He’s not reserving himself at a discount. The price we pay and the price he thinks he’s worth will be naturally out of wack. Someone will give him more money in a better cap situation. Problem is with us is that there’s nothing to replace him with. I love Sweat but he’s rotational as well. Can they just split a salary? That would work. 

Don’t disagree with any of that. That is why I said at the beginning, in an ideal world you could keep him but likely not in these circumstances. Someone is going to pay him way more than the Eagles can and should and he’ll likely be pretty good for them. He’s a 24 year old pretty good pass rusher. Those guys don’t come available too often 

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6 hours ago, EaglesPeteC said:

Don’t disagree with any of that. That is why I said at the beginning, in an ideal world you could keep him but likely not in these circumstances. Someone is going to pay him way more than the Eagles can and should and he’ll likely be pretty good for them. He’s a 24 year old pretty good pass rusher. Those guys don’t come available too often 

Yea we don’t agree with his abilities. I don’t see how anyone thinks he’s pretty good. We’ve had some good pass rushers on this franchise. I don’t consider them anywhere near them. He’s still not even Mike Mamula yet and he’s considered a huge bust. 

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23 minutes ago, EaglesPeteC said:

Gotta love this forum: either a player is an all-pro stud or they are garbage and should be cut. Nobody is ever in the middle lol 

Yeah you guys are pretty godawful at judging your own unless they are truly terrible. I like you all, but its pretty clear -

~75% of your roster you hate with the fire of thousand suns

~25% you of your roster you think walks on water and should be etched on mount Rushmore**.

 

** until they have enough bad games to move over to the hate side. 

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12 hours ago, EaglesPeteC said:

Barnett can be a disappointing 14th pick and a good and valuable player. These two things can be true at once 

Definitely.

I was probably the most against the pick, but he's improved at least a bit each year for the most part.

Reason I was against taking him was I saw him more in the 6-10 sack range or so. Thought he could be a good player eventually, but more an early to mid 2nd round value as he didn't have the ceiling to be a top pass rusher in the league. Pretty much called it right on the money, but I'm not happy about that.

Think he's probably having his best year so far. Too bad he's missed time with injury. I won't be mad if we keep him on his 5th year option or try and trade him though. If we can get some value back for him like if a team is willing to part with a 2nd rounder for him I think I would take it. If it's a mid to late 3rd, then meh. Rather see what he can do next year with a full healthy season and we will probably need the depth with a potential Graham decline. We might be able to get a 3rd round comp pick back if he looks like he did this year for a whole season and at least a 4th rounder.

 

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1 hour ago, Matts4313 said:

Yeah you guys are pretty godawful at judging your own unless they are truly terrible. I like you all, but its pretty clear -

~75% of your roster you hate with the fire of thousand suns

~25% you of your roster you think walks on water and should be etched on mount Rushmore**.

 

** until they have enough bad games to move over to the hate side. 

Don't lump me in with them...... 😒

On 12/13/2020 at 2:28 PM, TheRealMcCoy said:
On 12/13/2020 at 2:21 PM, Broadway Joe said:

It’s as if this fan bases turns on players far too quickly or something. 

No kidding lol....

Eagles fans on here quit on Reagor halfway through his rookie season when he missed 5 of those weeks with a hand injury and some of camp before week 1 😂

Quit on Hargrave early in the year when he was coming off missing like all of camp and early season with an injury and was working his way back into shape 🙄

Then, also wanted Mailata cut off the 53 before the season started lol 🤦🏻‍♂️

Do I need to go on?

Posted this during the GDT last week. 

Like they say patience is a virtue. I blame the social media age for our short attention spans. I say that as a millennial with ADD. I know I can be reactionary sometimes too, but I usually give players at least 3 years to show what they will ultimately be. For some it can take longer due to bad coaching or utilization and they may not hit their ceiling until they reach their 2nd team. Rasul Douglas and Sidney Jones are good examples of just that from this season.

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1 hour ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

Don't lump me in with them...... 😒

Posted this during the GDT last week. 

Like they say patience is a virtue. I blame the social media age for our short attention spans. I say that as a millennial with ADD. I know I can be reactionary sometimes too, but I usually give players at least 3 years to show what they will ultimately be. For some it can take longer due to bad coaching or utilization and they may not hit their ceiling until they reach their 2nd team. Rasul Douglas and Sidney Jones are good examples of just that from this season.

I do think some of you are falling prey to the "they are pointing out their issues, so they hate everything about them". Yeah some of the posters here are reactionary as ****, but at the same time some people are just giving their current opinions of the current results. Which in a down year should be expected to be negative. Like what are you supposed to expect them to say when hargrave was a literal ghost until a few weeks ago. It wasn't that he was coming off an injury but showing a flash here and there while he was getting up to speed, he was a LITERAL nonfactor until recently. 

 

On Barnett, I don't think people are rightly saying "he isn't living up to his first round hype, cut him", I think people are more along the lines of "he isn't good enough to command the money he would want that we literally don't have next season".

 

Also on the mailata bit, wasn't everyone's reason to cut him before the season entirely because they thought they had more promising, polished young players in driscoll, pryor (when he actually showed promise last season) and tega, that would take roster spots. Hindsight is 20/20 dude, not one single person here thought mailata was going to be half as good as he turned out so far with how little we'd seen from him. 

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19 minutes ago, Daimonas said:

Also on the mailata bit, wasn't everyone's reason to cut him before the season entirely because they thought they had more promising, polished young players in driscoll, pryor (when he actually showed promise last season) and tega, that would take roster spots. Hindsight is 20/20 dude, not one single person here thought mailata was going to be half as good as he turned out so far with how little we'd seen from him. 

I was never ever on the cut Mailata bandwagon you just described.  All I could ever think of is us giving up on and Mailata becoming Alejandro Villanueva 2.0.!! So I was or at least was hopeful we were not stupid enough to listen to the outside noise and cut him.

This entire forum has always believed they know best, in many cases giving up to quickly because said players isn't producing like his peers from his draft class, year 1 as a Rookie. Can identify studs and bust within minutes, quarters, games!

Its what we do. To be expected. 

Edited by Nabbs4u
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6 minutes ago, Daimonas said:

I do think some of you are falling prey to the "they are pointing out their issues, so they hate everything about them". Yeah some of the posters here are reactionary as ****, but at the same time some people are just giving their current opinions of the current results. Which in a down year should be expected to be negative. Like what are you supposed to expect them to say when hargrave was a literal ghost until a few weeks ago. It wasn't that he was coming off an injury but showing a flash here and there while he was getting up to speed, he was a LITERAL nonfactor until recently. 

 

On Barnett, I don't think people are rightly saying "he isn't living up to his first round hype, cut him", I think people are more along the lines of "he isn't good enough to command the money he would want that we literally don't have next season".

Hargrave did have some pass rush snaps that looked good before the last few weeks and most people on here weren’t considering his conditioning having missed all of camp and the first few games. Even Cox disappeared at times this year and he was healthy. 

Most people are just hating on Barnett and I say that as someone who was probably the harshest critic of the pick on here when it was made. I think he was having his best season to date this year. To me all 3 of Barnett, Graham and Sweat have played pretty well at the very least to really good. Sweat isn’t as good of a run defender as Barnett, but he’s better rushing the arc and has more potential plus he’s under contract another year before we need to re-sign him. As for Barnett not being worth the money. We don’t even know how much he wants, but we did already give him his 5th year option for next year which I believe is 10 million, but if the cap isn’t coming up like it usually does, then maybe it’s less than that? I’m not sure. But, I’m pretty sure he could get 9-12 million on the open market. Although, it’s hard to say with a lot of teams not having the cap room with what the cap is projected to be.

Anyways, here are the options:

1.) Let him just play another year on his 5th year option.

2.) Try to trade him on his 5th year option and see if you can get good enough value back to entice you to make a deal. Don’t think they’ll ship him off for cheap.

3.) Give him a new long term deal and bring down his cap hit for next season from what it would be on the 5th year option.

4.) Rescind the 5th year option and let him walk in FA. Don’t think they do this even if we have a new GM, but definitely not if Howie is still at the helm. It’s not good business.

As far as the likelihood of these options I would rank them:

3 > 1 = 2 >>>>>>>> 4

If I was running the team I would probably try and sit down with his agent and see what kind of deal he’s looking for. I think it’s smart to do this first before looking to see what his trade value is since that could backfire if it leaks and gets back to Barnett. If he will sign to a deal that is fairly good value and helps drop the cap hit this year, then I may do that and when we drafted him I never ever imagined saying that. However, if he wants too much, then look to #2 and see what his trade market looks like and if the value isn’t there either like at least a late 2nd rounder, then I would go right to #1 and just let him play out his 5th year option and hopefully continue his play from this year and prove he is worth a contract higher than what we were willing to give him this offseason and if we don’t sign him we can probably get back a decent comp pick like 3rd or definitely 4th which is basically what I imagine a team would offer up to us this off-season. Far and away in last would be #4. I just don’t think that should be on our radar. We would lose an asset we spent a 1st round pick on for no return and that’s bad business.

On the plus side for Barnett he’s still only 24 years old. He was still 20 when we drafted him, so he has that going for him. He’s also a good run defender and has improved in recent years as a pass rusher. His athleticism caps his ceiling like I said and is the main reason I didn’t want to take him until the 2nd round. He can still add to his pass rush repertoire though. Coaches probably love his motor and demeanor too. He often chases ball carriers down from behind and plays with an edge. Sometimes he does some dumb things like in that Packers game or committing offsides penalties, but he kinda has to do that to get a good jump since his burst isn’t great. Michael Bennett did the same thing and was a guy that DB was often compared to.

Barnett is a tough one. He’s a bit above average rn and has the potential to have the best statistical season of his career in 2021 barring health. I don’t blame people if they would rather lock up Josh Sweat after the last year of his deal which is also next year, because that’s the direction I’m more in favor of as well since Sweat isn’t as close to his ceiling. He’s stayed healthier, despite his injury history pre-NFL and he’s also a little bit younger (9 months) to boot.

My ideal scenario this off-season would be to get a mid to late 2nd round pick from a team in need of pass rushers. Then, I’d look to take a one of the top edge rushers wherever we hopefully fall in the top 15 and then try and hammer out a long term deal with Sweat instead of waiting until after next season when he could put up his even better stats and be looking for a lot more money. I think if we give him enough guaranteed we could probably get something like that done. Then, we would have a young pass rusher  who is still getting better and only 24 years old locked up for the next 4 or 5 years and a very talented rookie waiting in the wings for when Graham declines. That would be a sweet trio and set us up at one of the top 3 most valuable positions for the short and long term.

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35 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

I was never ever on the cut Mailata bandwagon you just described.  All I could ever think of is us giving up on and Mailata becoming Alejandro Villanueva 2.0.!! So I was or at least was hopeful we were not stupid enough to listen to the outside noise and cut him.

This entire forum has always believed they know best, in many cases giving up to quickly because said players isn't producing like his peers from his draft class, year 1 as a Rookie. Can identify studs and bust within minutes, quarters, games!

Its what we do. To be expected. 

Yep. What I described is exactly what happens with fans. Some of us just do it more than others. I’m not trying to hate on anyone here. I’m well aware most of the posters here are way smarter than a lot on Twitter or ones I encounter in real life. That’s why I still post here as much as I do.

But, it’s okay to give guys time. It worked out for us with Graham, Vaitai, Seumalo, Kelce, Barnett (lesser extent) and so on. It would be nice to hit on more picks early that contribute in big ways their first or second season though. It’s frustrating having to wait 2-3 years to see results. I get that.

Hopefully with a higher pick we can land one of those types this year.... fingers crossed.

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1 hour ago, Daimonas said:

Also on the mailata bit, wasn't everyone's reason to cut him before the season entirely because they thought they had more promising, polished young players in driscoll, pryor (when he actually showed promise last season) and tega, that would take roster spots. Hindsight is 20/20 dude, not one single person here thought mailata was going to be half as good as he turned out so far with how little we'd seen from him. 

Except Tega wasn’t polished coming into the league and that’s why he didn’t make the 53. We weren’t sure if Driscoll’s better position would ultimately be guard or right tackle, but we knew he likely wasn’t gonna ever be a left tackle for us. Anybody who liked Pryor at tackle was naive and it doesn’t take hindsight to know that. The promise he showed was at right guard.

As far as nobody believing in Mailata I constantly caped for him citing how hard learning such a technical position like tackle is when you didn’t have a lick of experience playing football coming into the league. Telling people that 2 offseasons with limited preseason snaps and no preseason this year with no minicamp, OTAs and a shortened training camp was enough to give up on him, especially when he has 2 years left on his dirt cheap rookie contract. Like we are literally are paying him 697k this year and 942k in the last year of his deal! It was always a hilarious bad take to cut him this year. It’s also not like he didn’t look good at times even in his first preseason. The athletic ability and potential was ALWAYS there. Honestly the fact he’s playing as well as he is now this early into his career is pretty damn impressive. I didn’t expect him to be this good this year. No. I knew he always had the potential to be a really good left tackle under the tutelage of a very good OL coach and a lot of veterans to learn from. I fought against posters saying who were complaining about how they think he should be a defensive lineman. I can’t remember exactly which posters it was, but I was there. It happened, so don’t tell me hindsight is 20/20. I’ve been a huge proponent for Mailata and thought at the very least he should get to be on the roster this year and next offseason at the very least. Of course none of us could’ve called it we aren’t out there watching practice and we didn’t get to see him in preseason to see the progress which was more reason I wanted him on the 53. Not to mention we lost Dillard with the bicep and all knew too well Peters’ inability to stay healthy.

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42 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

Except Tega wasn’t polished coming into the league and that’s why he didn’t make the 53. We weren’t sure if Driscoll’s better position would ultimately be guard or right tackle, but we knew he likely wasn’t gonna ever be a left tackle for us. Anybody who liked Pryor at tackle was naive and it doesn’t take hindsight to know that. The promise he showed was at right guard.

As far as nobody believing in Mailata I constantly caped for him citing how hard learning such a technical position like tackle is when you didn’t have a lick of experience playing football coming into the league. Telling people that 2 offseasons with limited preseason snaps and no preseason this year with no minicamp, OTAs and a shortened training camp was enough to give up on him, especially when he has 2 years left on his dirt cheap rookie contract. Like we are literally are paying him 697k this year and 942k in the last year of his deal! It was always a hilarious bad take to cut him this year. It’s also not like he didn’t look good at times even in his first preseason. The athletic ability and potential was ALWAYS there. Honestly the fact he’s playing as well as he is now this early into his career is pretty damn impressive. I didn’t expect him to be this good this year. No. I knew he always had the potential to be a really good left tackle under the tutelage of a very good OL coach and a lot of veterans to learn from. I fought against posters saying who were complaining about how they think he should be a defensive lineman. I can’t remember exactly which posters it was, but I was there. It happened, so don’t tell me hindsight is 20/20. I’ve been a huge proponent for Mailata and thought at the very least he should get to be on the roster this year and next offseason at the very least. Of course none of us could’ve called it we aren’t out there watching practice and we didn’t get to see him in preseason to see the progress which was more reason I wanted him on the 53. Not to mention we lost Dillard with the bicep and all knew too well Peters’ inability to stay healthy.

I'm not arguing about whether your or other people are wrong or not. I'm just giving possible reasons as to why people don't like x player, or are okay with letting x player go. It's not as simple as saying nobody has any patience. There are legitimate, worthwhile reasons to believe what they believe, just as you have legitimate reasons for your opinions. 

 

I have no dog in this race. I don't have nearly as much knowledge on how good players are performing like some of you posters do here. The extent of my analysis is what I see during the game and how much I personally like a player. I.E: I liked mailata's story so I wanted him on the team. 

 

The only reason I replied in the first place is because there is entirely too much generalization going on in this forum. Either you're calling them shortsighted people with no patience, or they're calling you a biased over optimistic homer. There is no in between with the people on this forum most of the time. 

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