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2021 Free Agency


Humble_Beast

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5 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Not even about who we let go or traded though. It's the fact that we essentially tried to strong arm Brown/Jackson/Incognito and low balled Good, which offended Rodney Hudson so much that he came to the team and asked to be released. 

Brown I’m not even going to comment lol. You already know the deal with him

how do you strong arm a 37 year old guard who didn’t play last year

you saw how much Jackson was getting paid what are you had to show for it

and realistically if that’s why Rodney Hudson left that would make sense people get cut all the time that are younger and produce more

for example the Chargers released their pro bowl guard and he was like 28

The patriots just let there center and right tackle walk nobody bats an I 

I’m not going to insult your intelligence I know you know what I’m saying

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8 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

It's not about the money or the positions at this point. It's about how poorly our front office is at managing personnel decisions and the shady tactics they're trying to use this offseason. We were essentially planning to hold Brown hostage to force him to take a pay cut and are currently doing the same thing to Gabe Jackson. We cut Richie Incognito so we wouldn't have to pay him in hopes that he'd come crawling back after seeing there wasn't much of a market for him in free agency. We low balled Denzelle Good after he played a key role for our OL and was willing to do whatever the team asked him to do.  

We've completely mistreated some of our most important players and guys are upset. It's a terrible look as a lot of guys in the league are friends and more importantly big agents/management groups represent a lot of players. The way we've treated Trent Brown, Gabe Jackson, Richie Incognito and Denzelle Good pissed Rodney Hudson off so bad that he asked to be released. It's a terrible look as we continue to rebuild because why would an agent be motivated to negotiate with the Raiders after seeing how we've potentially treated some of his other clients? 

This is interesting. It would be really fascinating to hear a Hudson interview. His reasoning for asking for his release would be good to know.

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17 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

And there may well have been mutual interest. But Agholor really shouldn't have hit the open market in the first place. His resigning was one of the more no-brainer moves in the league, unless we were going after one of the top WR targets (which is seeming more and more unlikely as they start signing elsewhere). 

There's no way Agholor could have known he'd snag what he did. His production wasn't THAT great. 

We have a disgruntled and/or unaccountable lockeroom and now it's being reported that we have thus far lowballed on Good. Heck, we all seem to be in agreement (even Mayock's disagreeable burner FF account) that we got Yannick dirt cheap. Are we intentionally bargain bin shopping like FA is a Goodwill store? 

I have a feeling that either: a) whatever mutual interest Agholor may have shared was tanked by a series of lowball offers, which allowed him to reach the market and learn his value was nearly 2x what people thought (which, let's be real again, there's no way he could've foreseen that pay day); or b) he was disgruntled to the point that he was going to hardball us for a bigger than deserved payday and made it to the market where he got uber lucky. 

Neither option leaves the Raiders looking particularly well put together. The fact that it was such a long term "priority" per Mayock and Gruden to get him resigned makes it obvious that we're either chronically lowballing guys to the point of absurdity or, when taken alongside a guy like Hudson pretty randomly asking for a release out of nowhere, that the faith in the FO is so low that any interest heavily requires overpaying our own average FA's to remain an attractive option. 

Agholor couldn't get a deal done after what seems like 4 months or more of talks. Good hasn't been resigned and we reportedly lowballed him. Mariota won't budge on his contract, even at the midnight hour when his chance of getting cut and losing more money than he'll now get on the market has reached it's peak. Hudson wanted out, (reportedly) in relation to Good's contract negotiations. We got for Trent Brown practically what someone just got for Lee Smith. None of Jackson, Incognito, or Long have been signed and we've now backed ourselves into being an OL needy team with less leverage to get good deals via FA. And every year we seem to have a few big names come in and leave without being signed. It reminds me of our Zach Brown saga: seems like at least 3 times when he was a hot commodity we had him in for workouts and he escaped every time. 

What the hell is it with our FO and contract negotiations? Can't close deals. Constant rumors of lowballing. Can't speculate trade or draft value worth a crap. Every time we turn around, it's something else. Overpay average players left and right. 

It's an unmistakable pattern at this juncture. 

I'm not pissed that Agholor is gone. I totally get that his ceiling was a WR2 and he has issues with consistency. What bugs me about it is that there was mutual interest and nothing got done yet again. If there was indeed mutual interest, he should've been one of the easier players to lock up. And for whatever reason, we failed at it yet again and seem on track to do so with Good now too. And maybe Gabe and Ritchie as well. Throw in Hudson if his discontent is true, and that's 5 of our better players being lost to FA on one side of the ball due to poor management.

It's all just a terrible look, and one not just explained away by "We got Yannick for cheap!". In the grand scheme of things, Yannick coming cheap to us is an aberration, not indicative of the norm for us. And dude was wanting $22m/year last year. If he has even a decent season for us, is he really going to want to stick around or is it going to be another round of brutal negotiations that burns us all again? History is not on the positive thinkers' side when it comes to that.

My thing is I don’t know how you can somehow take the fact that guy got paid 13 million a year that’s never had a 1000 yard season who was labeled a bust on another team and then spin it to mean that the Raiders in pursue him hard enough that’s why. 
 

ask for all the lineman with the exception of Brown, All three guards are over 30 and still on the market. The crazy part is we’re talking about them like they’ve been signed by other teams or like there’s not other options. You really think they’re going to go out there and line up with just a left tackle out there. It’s the second day of the legal tampering. Theoretically free agency hasn’t even officially started think about that

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29 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

OK so if we do that, David Irving had eight sacks in seven games the last full season he played in. What exactly does Sheldon Rankins do better than him even if you compare them both at their best. 

Irving was an UDFA who quit football and was using PED's.  Blah, blah with the excuses that his testosterone levels were high because of some hidden ingredients.  It's the same excuse from every cheater who gets caught. 

His career has never been the same since he came off the juice.  If you're banking on a clean Irving having a significant impact years removed from his juiced, 8 sack season your idea of quality talent needs to be reevaluated.  I would not count on Irving having any type of impact on this team, if he does great but banking on him being an impact 3T is laughable. 

Rankins is a former top 15 pick and a very good 3T when healthy and when he was out of the saints lineup their D was greatly impacted.  Here is data to back that up.

If you think Rankins and Irvin are on the same level on the football field, I'm telling you that your time spent "looking at game film" should be spent elsewhere.  

"Before his injury, Rankins was playing outstanding football. He was Pro Football Focus‘ 21st-ranked defensive tackle in the league and racked up 15 quarterback hits, 12 tackles for a loss and eight sacks. Now, the biggest question surrounding the Saints will be just how much will they miss him this week against the Rams? The answer may not be kind to the Saints’ faithful.

According to The Quant Edge, the Saints’ defensive success rate against the run took a massive hit when Rankins wasn’t on the field this season. Teams averaged just 3.41 yards per carry when he was on the field and that sky-rocketed to 3.83 without him. Simply put, the Saints’ defense looks very different without Rankins in the lineup".

Edited by Frankie2Gunz
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55 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Irving was an UDFA who quit football and was using PED's.  Blah, blah with the excuses that his testosterone levels were high because of some hidden ingredients.  It's the same excuse from every cheater who gets caught. 

His career has never been the same since he came off the juice.  If you're banking on a clean Irving having a significant impact years removed from his juiced, 8 sack season your idea of quality talent needs to be reevaluated.  I would not count on Irving having any type of impact on this team, if he does great but banking on him being an impact 3T is laughable. 

Rankins is a former top 15 pick and a very good 3T when healthy and when he ws out of the saints lineup their D was greatly impacted.  If you think Rankins and Irvin are on the same level on the football field, I'm telling you that your time spent "looking at game film" should be spent elsewhere.  

Since he came off the juice? You mean when he showed up on the raiders practice squad a week after he got reinstated and he was only active for two games because he wasn’t in shape because he didn’t have an off-season? Oh I see

The funny thing everything you just said about Irving you can say about Rankins(Two years removed from his impact year). The difference is Rankins wasn’t suspended an actually played so we can see that Rankins hasn’t been good since the eight sack year.  And remember this is on the Saints defensive line that includes two other first round guys and some back up they had 13 sacks last year and just got paid. Each of these last year’s 1.5 sacks and 2 sacks how does that help us. Malik Collins had 4 sacks the year we signed him to a prove it deal lol

Sure he was a first round pick but if you compare their measurable’s and athleticism David Irving was actually better. 
Sheldon Rankins

height 6-2(not that it matters)

weight 305

40:5.03

vert 34

3-cone:7.44

arm length:33

David Irving

height 6-7(not that it matters)

Weight 290

40: 4.84

vert 38

3-Cone 7.27

arm length:35

So where do you get that Rankins is more talented? The best part is David Irving comes at the veteran minimum.

and if we’re doing the quote thing...

“IN HIS LAST 13-GAMES PLAYED, IRVING COLLECTED 11 SACKS AND 13 TACKLES FOR LOSS. ON A PER-SNAP BASIS, THE 6-FOOT-7, 290LB LINEMAN WAS ONE OF THE MOST IMPACTFUL PLAYERS IN THE NFL.”

And yes I did watch film Rankins(I don’t comment on a player unless I do ) but by the looks of what you’re saying  I bet you’ve never watched the David Irving film. I’m sure this is all new info to you. Here’s some film to ponder..

 

Edited by Jeremy408
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1 hour ago, ragingraider said:

I think we all need to relax. You can't pay 3 guys on a 54 man roster 20% of your salary when none of the three are QB, DE, WR. These are linemen. We aren't even talking LT. We had 20% of our cap room in Gabe, Rodney, and Trent Brown. 1 center, 1 guard, and a right tackle. That's not an effective use of our money even if these guys are all excellent players. Unfortunately, we rarely even saw these three on the field at the same time. 

And, we aren't exactly dismantling a superbowl championship team. We are getting rid of a right tackle who can't stay healthy or in shape. TB's game will continue to deteriorate as he ages and racks up injuries due to his terrible fitness and work ethic. Gabe is replaceable, although I think he is better than some others do. Rodney is clearly among the top players at his position. But, you don't need an elite center to succeed. In fact, Tackles are far and away the most important position on the OLine, and we have a franchise LT in Miller. We need to get a high quality starter on the right side. If we do that, our Oline performance won't drop off significantly. 

We can take the 30 million we are saving and add depth across the roster. Our premier oline netted us exactly zero playoff appearances. The amount of money invested in that unit was precluding us from improving the team overall, especially on the defensive side of the ball. 

Losing Rodney is a bummer, but he is a 32 year old center making over 13 million a year. We got great years out of him. In fact, we got his best years. His presence hasn't been the difference between where we are and where we want to be. Khalil Mack's presence wasn't the difference. Mack's presence hasn't been the difference for the bears either. The reality is, one even two guys aren't going to be the difference unless one of them is a QB. It takes 54 good players sprinkled with a few elite players at key positions and great coaching to be successful. We haven't been a deep enough team to overcome injuries, and I would argue that our elite players like Rodney Hudson weren't at the key positions that are determinate success. 

Furthermore, defensively speaking we can't imporve the back end until we can get after the QB. With all the rules that favor offense, the only consistent way to effect an opponent defensively is with your pass rush and ability to dominate the line of scrimmage. If you want to spend 20% of your cap room on three players and one of them is not a QB, then get your self three dominant defensive lineman. It is the only thing that defeats great offense in todays NFL. 

QBs- You need a top ten guy (25-30 million) for qb room

DL- 2 elite guys and solid role players (40 million annually invested in dlineman. Top two guys getting about 25 million of it.) 

WR/TE-( one elite two solid) 30 million for unit. 3 guys get about 75%

OTs- 20 million.  Gs&Cs- 15 million OLine total (35 million for unit)

DB- unit cost 30 million(one elite player)

LBs-15 million

RBs-10 million

This is a rough breakdown of what I would prioritize and budget. Based on these estimates, you need a few of these elite starters on rookie contracts to successfully field a team with solid depth. The budget above would be 15 million over the current cap. I don't think any category looks extraordinarily high. If you plug in the idea that we were paying three guys on the oline over 35 million, you can see we were killing our cap with those three contracts.

 

 

 

this post is getting overlooked but is very good

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7 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

say we go R1-DT, R2-RT

free agent starters: G, NT, FS, WR, CB - that would quiet alot of the cynical people 

I could see us doing that or the opposite and going right tackle first round and defensive tackle second round.  Yeah there’s options are all those other positions as far as FA. But if I were you I would keep that homer talk to yourself ya hear?

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Crazy that everyone was b**tching about our overpaid OL, then we get rid of em and the sky is falling lol. We spent too much on non premium positions and once the production slipped, we switched it up. I’m not mad at it. 

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21 minutes ago, Geezy said:

Crazy that everyone was b**tching about our overpaid OL, then we get rid of em and the sky is falling lol. We spent too much on non premium positions and once the production slipped, we switched it up. I’m not mad at it. 

Oh you caught that huh? LOL 

Edited by Jeremy408
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2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

It's not about the money or the positions at this point. It's about how poorly our front office is at managing personnel decisions and the shady tactics they're trying to use this offseason. We were essentially planning to hold Brown hostage to force him to take a pay cut and are currently doing the same thing to Gabe Jackson. We cut Richie Incognito so we wouldn't have to pay him in hopes that he'd come crawling back after seeing there wasn't much of a market for him in free agency. We low balled Denzelle Good after he played a key role for our OL and was willing to do whatever the team asked him to do.  

We've completely mistreated some of our most important players and guys are upset. It's a terrible look as a lot of guys in the league are friends and more importantly big agents/management groups represent a lot of players. The way we've treated Trent Brown, Gabe Jackson, Richie Incognito and Denzelle Good pissed Rodney Hudson off so bad that he asked to be released. It's a terrible look as we continue to rebuild because why would an agent be motivated to negotiate with the Raiders after seeing how we've potentially treated some of his other clients? 

Shady tactics? Every nfl franchise does the same. 

That just stings more & leads to more player protests when your record is 17- 29 or whatever it is. Especially when you are one of the better players on the unit that is performing, and dont have that many years left.

 

But shady? Nah just business

 

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5 hours ago, ragingraider said:

We can take the 30 million we are saving and add depth across the roster. Our premier oline netted us exactly zero playoff appearances. The amount of money invested in that unit was precluding us from improving the team overall, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

Disagree with this. We had the money every year but we just spent it on bad fits, had bad luck with injuries and drafted poorly IMO. Plus we employed a terrible DC because he was a friend of the HC.

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If we would have traded Jackson & Hudson, how much cap hit would we take and what would be the cap costs of them for the team that would take them on?

The 2 of them for lets say 70% of their current cap hit should have interested some teams right? 

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