2021 Free Agency

[oakdb36]

4 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Right in line with what I thought his worth is.  He lands in a good spot playing alongside QW and Lawson.  If he can remain healthy he should provide good value at that price. 

Yes, you were right about his price. I think that's way too high for a guy who has started 1 game the last 2 years.

[MrOaktown_56]

3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Their defense should be pretty good next season under Saleh. Lawson/Rankins/Williams on the DL, Davis/Mosley at LB, Maye/Joyner at S. They desperately need to add a CB or two but they have some pieces. 

Saleh will get them playing good defense. I have no doubt. Stud coach.

[Jeremy408]

25 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Trent Brown missed 17 games in 3 years with San Francisco which is why they traded him and a 5th round pick to New England for a 3rd round pick. He also had weight issues dating back to his days at Florida, he was 376 pounds at the Senior Bowl which was the reason he was drafted in the 7th round. He had only made $3.5M in 4 NFL seasons before we gave him that massive contract. And as soon as he got paid he ballooned back up to a reported 400 pounds this year. The only year he was healthy and actually played an entire season at a high level was in New England. 

Tyrell Williams only had 84 catches for 1,381 yards and 9 TD in his final two seasons with the Chargers. And we gave him #1 WR money in free agency when he had never shown that he could be a high volume target. 

And the Mariota deal was one of the worst contracts in recent NFL free agency. He was the highest paid backup in the league with a $10M cap hit coming off of a season where he lost his starting job and completed less than 60% of his passes in the games that he did play. For comparison Andy Dalton signed for 1 yr/$3M deal with Dallas, Cam Newtons signed for 1 yr/$3.9M with New England, and Jameis Winston signed for 1 yr/$1.1M with New Orleans. 

Concerning Trent Brown I actually didn’t know that so that’s news to me. Good to hear you’re well read and back up what you say with facts(and not emotion or slander lol)

Tyrell Williams has had an 1000 yard season for the chargers in an expanded role before. With that being said he was supposed to be a high-end number two to (Antonio brown which didn’t pan out because he went crazy) and tyrell Williams got injured both seasons with the Raiders. 

I personally thought the Mariota signing was To see if another quarterback if put in the same circumstances as Carr and had the same talent level could be carr out for the job(A.k.a. find out if it’s car that’s good or the system that makes Carr good). Carr had never had that as entire career. I even think the reason why Carr did so much stupid stuff (besides the fact that he wasn’t coached well before Gruden) was because there was never any threat for him to lose his job. This provided that in Carr responded with the best season of his career(against real defenses). Now was that worth all of that money probably not but it did the trick and obviously we’re going to move on from Mariota  this year. 
 

but these are all decisions you can make because you traded Mack. You don’t have the opportunity to get a right tackle or a receiver or another defensive player or anything like that with Mac and getting paid 26 million this year. Which again is why we see the Bears cutting or attempting to trade a lot of their good defensive of players(And still haven’t found the quarterback I might add)

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

but these are all decisions you can make because you traded Mack. You don’t have the opportunity to get a right tackle or a receiver or another defensive player or anything like that with Mac and getting paid 26 million this year. Which again is why we see the Bears cutting or attempting to trade a lot of their good defensive of players(And still haven’t found the quarterback I might add)

We could've paid Mack last season and had $15M to pay other players with the money we paid Brown, Williams, and Mariota. 

[Jeremy408]

6 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

We could've paid Mack last season and had $15M to pay other players with the money we paid Brown, Williams, and Mariota. 

But again like I mentioned before, that’s hypothetical based on...

1. We are assuming that Mac would’ve taken that deal for us versus taking that deal for the Bears who just gave up two first round picks and a third Just to acquire the rights To negotiate with him

2. The hindsight of those three signings not being good signings. We don’t question it if Tyrell Williams stays healthy and produces 1000 yard season or if Trent Brown stays healthy for at least 28 out of 32 games that he could’ve played in or if it turned out that Mariota was better in the John Gruden system then Derek Carr ends up winning the job and has the season that carr has or better or at the very least car gets her for a long period of time and Mariota does a good job of keeping us in playoff contention during that time or  that’s winning the Chargers game.

[Frankie2Gunz]

40 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

Yes, you were right about his price. I think that's way too high for a guy who has started 1 game the last 2 years.

Robert Saleh doesn't think so.  If he's healthily he will pose good value at 8 per. 

[Jeremy408]

1 minute ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Robert Saleh doesn't think so.  If he's healthily he will pose good value at 8 per. 

I guess an interesting question to ask (that I haven’t asked before): What is good value at 8 look like for a DT?

[Frankie2Gunz]

1 minute ago, Jeremy408 said:

I guess an interesting question to ask (that I haven’t asked before): What is good value at 8 look like for a DT?

If he starts 14+ games and gets 6ish sacks.  I think that is obtainable for a player of his pedigree. 

[Jeremy408]

3 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

If he starts 14+ games and gets 6ish sacks.  I think that is obtainable for a player of his pedigree. 

OK that actually makes sense. Because I remember you saying something like it was good for him to come in as a rotational player. And my thing is I knew he was going to get around 8 million so my thought process was 8 million for a rotational player doesn’t make sense to me. Especially when they hadn’t produced in two years. But if a team thinks that he can get six sacks and start 14 games that’s actually good production for a defensive tackle.

[NYRaider]

10 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

2. The hindsight of those three signings not being good signings. We don’t question it if Tyrell Williams stays healthy and produces 1000 yard season or if Trent Brown stays healthy for at least 28 out of 32 games that he could’ve played in or if it turned out that Mariota was better in the John Gruden system then Derek Carr ends up winning the job and has the season that carr has or better or at the very least car gets her for a long period of time and Mariota does a good job of keeping us in playoff contention during that time or  that’s winning the Chargers game.

But we do question it because we spent big money in free agency on Trent Brown, Tyrell Williams, Marcus Mariota and LaMarcus Joyner when they'll all be playing elsewhere in 2021 after having minimal impacts for us. 

We question it because since the Mack trade the Bears are 28-20 with 0 losing seasons and two playoff berths while we're 19-29 with 2 losing seasons and zero playoff berths. 

Good teams are built through the draft and rarely spend a ton of money in free agency because they use their cap to keep their good players on the team. 

Look at Tampa Bay last year, 8/11 of their defensive starters were guys they drafted, 4/5 of their offensive linemen were guys they drafted, and their two leading receivers and leading rusher were guys they drafted. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

OK that actually makes sense. Because I remember you saying something like it was good for him to come in as a rotational player. And my thing is I knew he was going to get around 8 million so my thought process was 8 million for a rotational player doesn’t make sense to me. Especially when they hadn’t produced in two years. But if a team thinks that he can get six sacks and start 14 games that’s actually good production for a defensive tackle.

I don't recall saying he is a rotational player.  Clearly there is risk but at 8 million I feel that risk is baked in.  If he does remain healthy, starts 14+ games and get 6 sacks that is good value and his trajectory will be heading upwards with his peak years ahead of him.  

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I don't recall saying he is a rotational player.  Clearly there is risk but at 8 million I feel that risk is baked in.  If he does remain healthy, starts 14+ games and get 6 sacks that is good value and his trajectory will be heading upwards with his peak years ahead of him.  

I really liked Rankins coming out of Louisville, not sure he'll live up to the contract though. Needs to stay healthy and we'll see how he looks when he's not playing alongside other All-Pros on the DL. 

[MrOaktown_56]

5 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I don't recall saying he is a rotational player.  Clearly there is risk but at 8 million I feel that risk is baked in.  If he does remain healthy, starts 14+ games and get 6 sacks that is good value and his trajectory will be heading upwards with his peak years ahead of him.  

The Jets have a lot lower risk than we do. They are a pretty mediocre team and have a lot more $$$ to work with. I'm fine with our investment at DT, as long as we don't pass on a good one in the draft.

[Jeremy408]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

But we do question it because we spent big money in free agency on Trent Brown, Tyrell Williams, Marcus Mariota and LaMarcus Joyner when they'll all be playing elsewhere in 2021 after having minimal impacts for us. 

We question it because since the Mack trade the Bears are 28-20 with 0 losing seasons and two playoff berths while we're 19-29 with 2 losing seasons and zero playoff berths. 

Good teams are built through the draft and rarely spend a ton of money in free agency because they use their cap to keep their good players on the team. 

Look at Tampa Bay last year, 8/11 of their defensive starters were guys they drafted, 4/5 of their offensive linemen were guys they drafted, and their two leading receivers and leading rusher were guys they drafted. 

The reason why I don’t question it is because they’re two separate issues. Trading Khalil Mack yes he was undoubtably worth too much and then what we did with the resources we got in the trade and the money we saved by trading him are two completely different problems.

what you said about how the Bears have done since the mack trade theres a lot to unpack with that. 

The reason why the Bears were successful the year they traded for Mac is because the NFC North was horrible that year. They went 12–4 while the Vikings who were second had 8-7 and a tie. The Packers had their worst season in a decade(reminder: that was the year Mike McCarthy got fired). And the lions are the lions who never pose a threat any year(so many people count that as two free wins) This explains why they lost the first game of the playoffs to the Eagles who barely got in. In the last two years they’ve gone 8-8 both years(which if it was flipped and they were in our division and we were in there we would’ve actually gone to the playoffs this year. That’s something to think about)

You’re right the good teams do keep the good players. I won hundred percent believe in the philosophy of the best teams are good at drafting and developing players that they draft. No argument there. But then again the good teams don’t switch coaches every three years. So what happens is good players on good teams are never in a situation where they are holding out when a new coach gets there. Also good teams pay their best players first before some of the other good complementary players get their payday not the other way around(which is what happened under McKenzie’s tenure and didn’t do Gruden any favors). Also McKenzie(contrary to popular belief or what everyone may remember) was horrible at drafting. The only drafts he ever drafted well was the year Khalil Mack and Derek Carr were drafted(that whole draft class was good). You combine that with the fact that he paid everyone but Mack before gruden came what is the recipe for disaster. 
 

and yes to some extent what you’re saying is true about Tampa Bay but you have to also realize they brought a lot of FA(on very cheap deals because they followed Brady) as well that were direct contributors in this year Super Bowl run and specifically in the Super Bowl game

[Jeremy408]

36 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I don't recall saying he is a rotational player.  Clearly there is risk but at 8 million I feel that risk is baked in.  If he does remain healthy, starts 14+ games and get 6 sacks that is good value and his trajectory will be heading upwards with his peak years ahead of him.  

 2021 Free Agency

Frankie2Gunz replied to Humble_Beast's topic in Las Vegas Raiders

‘One of the best DE's in football when healthy but I think we're set at DE now that we have YN and you're right he would want 20+ which we can not afford to do with so many others holes to fill. I am now fascinated to see how we address the interior DL. I would like to double dip on Rankins and S. Thomas for 10 million total. That would give us some rotational pieces along the front.”

 

that part I don’t necessarily disagree with from a theoretical standpoint(that comes down to it whoever signs him has to think he’s more than a rotational player because obviously 8 million is too much for that)

 

that being said Solomon Thomas I think gives us options because he only cost 5 million at most(that’s absolute most). And he also has the absolute talent to become the starting 3T. He was completely used wrong in San Francisco he has a chance to be a steal but at the very least he’s a rotational guy that if he gets hurt or doesn’t materialize we can just get rid of in a year. That’s actually why I think the Raiders have all of the interior guys on one of your deals they want to see which one sticks which I am 1000% for that. It’s actually really smart(get a bunch of talented guys that are coming from weird situations, possibly draft a guy Day two or later give them all the same coaching from a D lineman that they say is supposed to be really good And see who sticks because you’re not committed to any of them). I think it’s the best you can do with what was available at defensive tackle this off-season.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Jeremy408