MrOaktown_56 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 56 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Define success? Is it just getting to the playoffs? The Raiders are in that mix of 8-10 win teams with the Dolphins, Colts, Browns, Steelers and Titans all vying for wild cards spots. They need to overhaul the defense and improve the offense before they can separate from this stack and compete for a division title. The reason I am bearish. I think the defense will take at least 3 years to really jump in the standings. I don't see these underwhelming top draft picks suddenly becoming great. I don't see the names some of you want hitting FA and even then, they have to compete with other teams to get them. On offense, we're at Carrs ceiling. There will be attrition on the Oline that will effect them. They are a top 10 -12 offense, but need to be top 5 in the next couple years to offset what will be a 23-25th ranked defense. Now... things may break right and they get to the playoffs, but they are one and done when they get there. I'm all for being surprised, but bottom line... they screwed up their draft picks in the last 2 years and they will continue to pay for it. These players are not good and expecting a massive turnaround... I just do not see it happening. The OL already was mediocre this year and the offense still was good (almost great but Gruden struck again). I agree about FA. We can't get all of these guys. Maybe 2 of them. We've shown that we're capable of beating the best teams already with a **** defense. You yourself are the champion of "give draft picks time". I'm willing to give these guys some time with Gus and the new staff. I think we're closer than you think. I'm actually impressed we won 8 games on this brutal schedule, even though we over performed and should have won 10+ IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agarcia34 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 They don’t need to overhaul the defense. They need to teach and uplift the young players on the team. This team has the young guys but had arguably the worst coaching the past two years. What have these draft picks actually learned other than my way or the high way? The past two years. Milus will be the best thing to happen to Mullen, Arnette and Abram. You add to the defense with proven vets to help the process go faster, but the worst thing you can do is overhaul the defense and give up on the draft picks that have shown flashes. Let’s see what they can do with actual coaching. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Most important thing to do now is finally find a 3T who can consistently create pressure. I feel like we've been searching for one for years now. I don't think adding another DE would make much of a difference if there's still little to no interior pressure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 36 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: The OL already was mediocre this year and the offense still was good (almost great but Gruden struck again). I agree about FA. We can't get all of these guys. Maybe 2 of them. We've shown that we're capable of beating the best teams already with a **** defense. You yourself are the champion of "give draft picks time". I'm willing to give these guys some time with Gus and the new staff. I think we're closer than you think. I'm actually impressed we won 8 games on this brutal schedule, even though we over performed and should have won 10+ IMO. I'm patient with draft picks when they have actual traits that translate. Ferrell, Abram, Arnette... these guys were massive "safe" reaches who don't have great traits to develop. Low ceiling players. Nothing to be excited about. Top end, they are role players. None get a 2nd contract. I think we are farther than you think. You have to have star talents to be a great defense. There isn't star talent on the roster or in FA to grab. You have to draft and develop that. Raiders are 8-10 win team next year again baring a big trade for a game changing talent which I don't see happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 14 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: Most important thing to do now is finally find a 3T who can consistently create pressure. I feel like we've been searching for one for years now. I don't think adding another DE would make much of a difference if there's still little to no interior pressure. Where do you find that? FA is light on 3t's that can create consistent pressure. And rookies 3T's take a few seasons to pop. So much easier said than done. And yes it's been an issue for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 27 minutes ago, agarcia34 said: They don’t need to overhaul the defense. They need to teach and uplift the young players on the team. This team has the young guys but had arguably the worst coaching the past two years. What have these draft picks actually learned other than my way or the high way? The past two years. Milus will be the best thing to happen to Mullen, Arnette and Abram. You add to the defense with proven vets to help the process go faster, but the worst thing you can do is overhaul the defense and give up on the draft picks that have shown flashes. Let’s see what they can do with actual coaching. Just hope baby Keep blaming coaching. Maybe the players they drafted just suck. Has that crossed anyones mind? Or we just hope it was Paul Guenther's fault they didn't develop? Seems like wishful thinking. True talent will show up regardless of circumstance. Guenther wasn't out there missing tackles and getting stuck on blocks and missing assignments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 13 minutes ago, big_palooka said: I'm patient with draft picks when they have actual traits that translate. Ferrell, Abram, Arnette... these guys were massive "safe" reaches who don't have great traits to develop. Low ceiling players. Nothing to be excited about. Top end, they are role players. None get a 2nd contract. I think we are farther than you think. You have to have star talents to be a great defense. There isn't star talent on the roster or in FA to grab. You have to draft and develop that. Raiders are 8-10 win team next year again baring a big trade for a game changing talent which I don't see happening. Most likely regarding wins. I disagree on the defenders though. I have a little more faith in some of those guys. I think Ferrell and Arnette could definitely come on in year 2, especially Arnette in Gus' scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 39 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Where do you find that? FA is light on 3t's that can create consistent pressure. And rookies 3T's take a few seasons to pop. So much easier said than done. And yes it's been an issue for years. You trade for Jonathan Allen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 36 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Just hope baby Keep blaming coaching. Maybe the players they drafted just suck. Has that crossed anyones mind? Or we just hope it was Paul Guenther's fault they didn't develop? Seems like wishful thinking. True talent will show up regardless of circumstance. Guenther wasn't out there missing tackles and getting stuck on blocks and missing assignments. If it didn't cross our mind, you've done a good job to remind us everyday. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agarcia34 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 (edited) 42 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Just hope baby Keep blaming coaching. Maybe the players they drafted just suck. Has that crossed anyones mind? Or we just hope it was Paul Guenther's fault they didn't develop? Seems like wishful thinking. True talent will show up regardless of circumstance. Guenther wasn't out there missing tackles and getting stuck on blocks and missing assignments. I rather have some hope that things will change then sit here and be miserable on a message board. Like if u have no hope why u even here waisting your time. Edited January 19, 2021 by agarcia34 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted January 20, 2021 Author Share Posted January 20, 2021 3 hours ago, NYRaider said: And we'd allow 45 points a game. Our offense is fine, bring back Nelly on a reasonable deal and let Ruggs/Edwards/Renfrow continue to grow into bigger roles. Investing big money into skill position players when we just had the worst year defensively in franchise history is the fast lane to remaining mediocre. We need to invest heavily into our defense and add some difference makers. JJ3 and Joyner are completely different players. JJ3 is a true FS with range while Joyner was a FS that we forced to play NCB in Guenther's scheme because he hated small safeties. I’ll rather draft Holland in the 2nd..... I don’t know if I trust MM ability to find pass rushers. Rather spend on proven vet DL and Arob... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: Just hope baby Keep blaming coaching. Maybe the players they drafted just suck. Has that crossed anyones mind? Or we just hope it was Paul Guenther's fault they didn't develop? Seems like wishful thinking. True talent will show up regardless of circumstance. Guenther wasn't out there missing tackles and getting stuck on blocks and missing assignments. So you're saying Guenther just exposed Kwit, Littleton, and Joyner, all FAs who had pretty good careers going before us, as bums? Guenther assembled these three players, who were all doing really, really good with their past teams, and exposed them for what they truly are? Garbage?!? Really? Guenther was a terrible DC. TERRIBLE. Oh man...I need a drink after reading some of these posts. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) I don't follow the Falcons much, but Grady Jarrett might be available just looking at their cap situation. Like I know he is very very good, but trading him would free up almost 10mil for them when they are in a really right spot and can't really trade or cut Julio/Ryan. Like if they traded Jarret and cut/traded Ricardo Allen, James Carpenter and Allen Bailey they are restructure away from being out of the red. I don't know what fair value would be for Jarrett in trade, but acquiring him then following it up with a draft pick might be a good direction to address DT without the "sign Leonard Williams" path. Edit: I think I'd lead with a slightly more rich man's offer of what the Broncos traded for Jurrell Casey last year. Like without looking it up I'd think Casey is roughly 32, and Jarrett is only like 28 so a little more compensation would make sense. Can't be offering too much as it's a path to financial freedom for them. Maybe a mid-rounder? Edited January 20, 2021 by Trojan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 6 hours ago, agarcia34 said: I rather have some hope that things will change then sit here and be miserable on a message board. Like if u have no hope why u even here waisting your time. Eventually you grow up and deal with reality I know bp is a die hard. Y’all confuse criticism with hate far too often. It’s our team too and we can criticize them if we want. Doesn’t mean I’m gonna throw out my raider gear. I’m here because it’s a place where I can rant and vent about these mf raiders to raiders who feel my pain. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 6 hours ago, big_palooka said: Just hope baby Keep blaming coaching. Maybe the players they drafted just suck. Has that crossed anyones mind? Or we just hope it was Paul Guenther's fault they didn't develop? Seems like wishful thinking. True talent will show up regardless of circumstance. Guenther wasn't out there missing tackles and getting stuck on blocks and missing assignments. If we’re blaming gruden for the draft are we blaming mike for fa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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