ronjon1990 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 13 hours ago, NYRaider said: And if Incognito doesn't stay healthy then we'll have Cable's guy at LG as well. He has done a good job with Kolton Miller but that's about it. Cable also pounded the table for James Carpenter in Seattle who was pretty similar to Leatherwood and he was a bust. He also pounded the table for us to trade up for Parker over Brown. I'll reserve judgement on Leatherwood until he plays, but I still don't "like" the pick at all. Parker over Brown is a toss up for me unless I'm benefiting from hindsight. Brown came across as a bit lazy and a terrible (not bad, but actually terrible) athlete to me. Granted, Brown would've excited me way more than Parker on draft day lol. Fwiw, Mayock had Geron Christian ranked over Brown....so I suppose we could've done worse than Parker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: I'll reserve judgement on Leatherwood until he plays, but I still don't "like" the pick at all. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 4 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: Parker over Brown is a toss up for me unless I'm benefiting from hindsight. Brown came across as a bit lazy and a terrible (not bad, but actually terrible) athlete to me. Brown was so lazy that he was a consensus All-American and the best OL in college football. Parker was meh against D3 dudes, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 11 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Brown was so lazy that he was a consensus All-American and the best OL in college football. Parker was meh against D3 dudes, lol. I can honestly say that I preferred Brown back then and didn’t know who Brandon Parker was until he was drafted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: I can honestly say that I preferred Brown back then and didn’t know who Brandon Parker was until he was drafted Imagine if we would've taken Brown, book end tackles in the same class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Imagine if we would've taken Brown, book end tackles in the same class. We can always look back in hindsight and say what if. But specifically when it came to Brown, I personally wanted him back then. Who knows if he was a scheme fit when it comes down to it? Edited June 20, 2021 by Jeremy408 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Brown was so lazy that he was a consensus All-American and the best OL in college football. Parker was meh against D3 dudes, lol. Johnny Manziel was a Heisman winner, 2x Heisman finalist, Consensus All-American, O'Brien and Manning award winner, and AP Player of the year. He was also exceptionally lazy and more interested in things other than football. Being a Consensus All-American means squat if you're also a bum. Nobody questions Brown's talent. Many at the time questioned his effort, preparation, and drive. All I'm saying is I understand why he was passed over 82 times and 8 OTs, and we clearly weren't the only team who had him well down the board despite being a 1st round talent at his best. It's easy to pick and choose pedantically in hindsight, but clearly nobody had him high on their board and many thought he was a bust despite his accolades in college. Obviously, NOW I would prefer Brown. I would have on draft day as well. But I can't throw too much shade at the Raiders for not going with him instead of someone they saw more in at the time. Cable saw more in Parker, similar to plenty of others who took other OTs or otherwise passed on Brown. Whether we like it or not, dude was a major faller, not a riser. So I'm not holding it against Cable. Edited June 20, 2021 by ronjon1990 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted June 20, 2021 Author Share Posted June 20, 2021 would anyone be interested in Eddie Vanderdoes for the minimum? He flopped as a starter because he couldn't stay healthy. I guess he opted out last season, so he got waived. We still only have one NT, I think Eddie could be a solid backup NT. He's still only 26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 56 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: Johnny Manziel was a Heisman winner, 2x Heisman finalist, Consensus All-American, O'Brien and Manning award winner, and AP Player of the year. He was also exceptionally lazy and more interested in things other than football. Being a Consensus All-American means squat if you're also a bum. Nobody questions Brown's talent. Many at the time questioned his effort, preparation, and drive. That may be true for quarterbacks and other positions but if you look back at recent history almost every OT that was a consensus All-American has gone on to be a stud in the NFL. Brown's tape was dominant and he admitted that he was never much of a weight room guy in college. He had a terrible combine and then improved upon his numbers at his pro-day. Brown was dominant in college because of his size, tenacity, and technique. I also think it's hard to call him lazy or more interested in things other than football, he never had any off the field issues or character concerns in college. And they may have questioned his drive but he proved them all wrong, between the combine and the start of training camp he worked his arse off and shed 12% of his body fat. Quote "I do understand how teams view it and the measurables that go into it, particularly at my position," Brown said. "In the future, there probably won't be many cases like mine – just being honest. I'm a guy that's big as hell, long as hell. I grew up around football for the majority of my life. I've been fortunate to work with a lot of great coaches and mentors. I learned how to play ball." Edited June 21, 2021 by NYRaider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said: We can always look back in hindsight and say what if. But specifically when it came to Brown, I personally wanted him back then. Who knows if he was a scheme fit when it comes down to it? How was Trent Brown a scheme fit as a huge RT with questionable athleticism and Orlando Brown not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 47 minutes ago, NYRaider said: How was Trent Brown a scheme fit as a huge RT with questionable athleticism and Orlando Brown not? Speaking only from my understanding, Trent Brown was a right tackle who had the ability to play left tackle(The more athletic tackle position) at a high-level. They basically made him an overqualified right tackle(which seems to be what Cable has been going for since he got here). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: Speaking only from my understanding, Trent Brown was a right tackle who had the ability to play left tackle(The more athletic tackle position) at a high-level. They basically made him an overqualified right tackle(which seems to be what Cable has been going for since he got here). And Orlando Brown has shown that he's elite at LT or RT. We've regularly reached on guys from big programs over guys with elite physical traits. And the one time we didn't was to take a guy in Parker with elite physical tools over a dominant player from a big program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, NYRaider said: And Orlando Brown has shown that he's elite at LT or RT. We've regularly reached on guys from big programs over guys with elite physical traits. And the one time we didn't was to take a guy in Parker with elite physical tools over a dominant player from a big program. He played left tackle in the NFL? I didn’t know that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: He played left tackle in the NFL? I didn’t know that He played RT his first two years in Baltimore because they had Ronnie Stanley. Stanley got hurt last year so they moved Brown to LT and he played really well there. Which is the reason that he asked to be traded because he wanted to go to a team where he'd be able to play LT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 2 hours ago, NYRaider said: That may be true for quarterbacks and other positions but if you look back at recent history almost every OT that was a consensus All-American has gone on to be a stud in the NFL. And they may have questioned his drive but he proved them all wrong 1. Since 2015, there have been all of 7. Even if you go back 10 years, there haven't been very many. And no, most have not gone on to be studs. There are a few, but less than half. The jury is still out on a few, sure, but that doesn't mean "stud" either. 2. Yes, he proved people wrong. He didn't pull a Johnathan Cooper and suck. That's the point- he was in a position to have to prove a lot of people wrong by his own doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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