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3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

1. Since 2015, there have been all of 7. Even if you go back 10 years, there haven't been very many. And no, most have not gone on to be studs. There are a few, but less than half. The jury is still out on a few, sure, but that doesn't mean "stud" either. 

Since 2015, unanimous All-American OT...

Ronnie Stanley 

Taylor Decker

Ryan Ramczyk

Cam Robinson

Orlando Brown Jr

Mike McGlinchey

Jonah Williams

Mitch Hyatt

Penei Sewell

Andrew Thomas

Liam Eichenberg

Alex Leatherwood

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3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

2. Yes, he proved people wrong. He didn't pull a Johnathan Cooper and suck. That's the point- he was in a position to have to prove a lot of people wrong by his own doing. 

He was in a position to prove people wrong by his own doing because he's a huge man that didn't run fast or jump high in basketball shorts and a t-shirt? He absolutely dominated in college at LT for a power conference school and was an All-American. He knew he needed to get his body right and lost 12% of his body fat between the combine and training camp and has been a stud in the NFL just like in college. Even he said that NFL teams are too worried about testing numbers and not about film or technique/skill. 

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Brown's college tape was dominant. The left tackle mauled defenders, beating them with his size, tenacity, technique and all the reasons listed above. Then ground them into the turf.

He did just the same when he reached the NFL and became a starter at right tackle midway through his rookie season.

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What also shouldn't be forgotten is how Brown has transformed his body. The athlete that competed at the Combine a year ago may not have had the same results without buckling down in the weight room. By the time last preseason started, Brown had shed 12 percent of his body fat.

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"That's not his game. His game is being big, physical, long, tough, staying on his feet and trying to beat the ever-living [crap] out of you. That's what he did at Oklahoma and that's what he's done here."

The Ravens have always been a team that relies more on the tape than Combine measurables. It's just another piece of the puzzle. In fact, the Ravens really liked how Brown bounced back from his Combine showing. Sometimes, what's most important is how someone responds to failure.

 

The Ravens are consistently one of the best teams in the league for a reason. They saw an elite player on tape and went and got him. Instead we saw Parker playing okay against D3 competition but run fast in a t-shirt and traded up for him. 

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1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

Since 2015, unanimous All-American OT...

Ronnie Stanley 

Taylor Decker

Ryan Ramczyk

Cam Robinson

Orlando Brown Jr

Mike McGlinchey

Jonah Williams

Mitch Hyatt

Penei Sewell

Andrew Thomas

Liam Eichenberg

Alex Leatherwood

Taylor Decker- really good, not a stud.

Spencer Drango- not a stud

Ronnie Stanley- stud

Cody O'Connell- nobody

Ryan Ramczyk- stud

Cam Robinson- average

Connor Williams- switched to G and is average-good

Orlando Brown Jr.- stud

Mike McGlinchey- stud

Jonah Williams- average-good

Mitch Hyatt-done nothing

Andrew Thomas- not very good

Eichenberg, Leatherwood, Sewell- collective total of 0 NFL snaps. 

That's 11/15 that can't absolutely be called studs. Even if you wanted Decker, you're still lookiing at 2/3 of the list not being verifiable "studs". In fact, as many have either been not good as have been "studs". 

2012?

Johnathan Cooper- bust

Luke Joeckel? Uh huh. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

The Ravens are consistently one of the best teams in the league for a reason. They saw an elite player on tape and went and got him. Instead we saw Parker playing okay against D3 competition but run fast in a t-shirt and traded up for him. 

Then why didn't they take him in round 1? Round 2? Why did they take him in round 3? Why did 8 other OTs pass him by? 

You're trying to argue with me that he's actually a great player- something I've never said he wasn't- when the point is that I simply can't bash Cable for overlooking him the same as the rest of the league did 82 times, almost universally for the same reasons. 

The guy showed up to the combine in Terrance Cody level pathetic shape and performed historically poorly. Any GM or O-line coach is naturally going to question that.

He can say all he wants that people put too much stock in the underwear Olympics. And he's right. But a player still knows that and prepares, not make excuses for themselves. Good on him for improving his performance at his Pro Day, but that doesn't absolutely negate his poor Combine. 

The only reason its noteworthy is that he wound up being an exception. If he busted out of the NFL by now, few would've been surprised given the poor workout, falling draft stock, etc. And when Tom Cable decided to pound the table for a guy, knowing only what was known on April 27 2018, I don't think many can blame him for not pounding the table for Orlando Brown Jr without the benefit of hindsight and him actually working out very well.

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@ronjon1990

O'Connell was an offensive guard and got hurt, not an OT. 

Spencer Drago played OG until Joe Thomas got hurt then moved back to OT. 

Mitch Hyatt was un-drafted and has been been hurt pretty much his entire career. 

Jonathan Cooper was a guard. 

Andrew Thomas was a rookie last season...

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7 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Then why didn't they take him in round 1? Round 2? Why did they take him in round 3? Why did 8 other OTs pass him by? 

Why did Tom Brady go in the 6th round? Are NFL GM's always right? 

Anyone that watched Orlando Brown play in college could see he was a stud and that has proven to be true in the NFL. 

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9 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I don't think many can blame him for not pounding the table for Orlando Brown Jr without the benefit of hindsight and him actually working out very well.

I do think you can blame Cable for pounding the table for a D3 project over a guy that had dominant tape at a major program. 

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6 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

@ronjon1990

O'Connell was an offensive guard and got hurt, not an OT. 

Spencer Drago played OG until Joe Thomas got hurt then moved back to OT. 

Mitch Hyatt was un-drafted and has been been hurt pretty much his entire career. 

Jonathan Cooper was a guard. 

Andrew Thomas was a rookie last season...

Went by guys listed at OT on the AA roster. 

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6 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Why did Tom Brady go in the 6th round? Are NFL GM's always right? 

Anyone that watched Orlando Brown play in college could see he was a stud and that has proven to be true in the NFL. 

The Tom Brady excuse? Come on, you're better than that. Lightning in a bottle. 

Nobody is saying GMs are always right. 

And FFS, ok dude. Yes. Everyone should have bowed to his greatness and totally ignored everything about his Pre draft process being the drizzly turds. HOW DARE THEY PASS OVER A FAT, UNATHLETIC OT WHO COULDN'T BE BOTHERED TO GO THROUGH THE BIGGEST JOB INTERVIEW OF HIS LIFE ADEQUATELY PREPARED 82 FREAKING TIMES! MORONS! ALL OF THEM! INCLUDING THE RAVENS, WHO PASSED HIM OVER 2 TIMES! WE ALL SHOULD'VE GIVEN HIM A PARTICIPATION TROPHY AND AUTOMATIC 1ST ROUND SPOT ALONG WITH A PACK OF OREOS. AND SCREW TOM CABLE FOR EVER DOUBTING THAT FAT AND HISTORICALLY UNATHLETIC OT WHO SHOWED UP TO THE COMBINE IN AWFUL SHAPE WHEN LOOKING FOR AN OT TO GO AGAINST THE UBER ATHLETIC VON MILLER, BRADLEY CHUBB, NICK BOSA, MELVIN INGRAM, DEE FORD, AND JUSTIN HOUSTON! The gall of that guy! Orlando Brown Jr had absolutely nothing to prove before being drafted and given a contract. Nothing, nada, and anyone who says otherwise is just an idiot. 

Happy now? Jesus. 

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When you look at Tom Cable's OL talent evaluation record he sure does have a great track record. 

Falcons

• Quinn Ojinnaka - Career backup 

Seahawks

• James Carpenter - 1st round pick at OT who moved to OG, bust

• John Mofitt - 2nd round pick, bust

• Ryan Seymour - 13 career games

• Michael Bowie - 9 career games

• Justin Britt - 2nd round pick OT, had to move inside

• Garrett Scott - 0 games

• Terry Poole - 0 games

• Mark Glowinski - Backup OG

• Germain Ifedi - 1st round pick, bust

• Rees Odhiambo - Bust

• Joey Hunt - Bust

• Ethan Pocic - Average starter

• Justin Senior - 0 games

Raiders

• Jared Veldheer - Became an above average starter

• Bruce Campbell - Complete bust

• Kolton Miller - Became a good starter 

• Brandon Parker - Bust

• John Simpson - Backup, jury still out

• Alex Leatherwood - Rookie, jury still out 

@ronjon1990

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8 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

And FFS, ok dude. Yes. Everyone should have bowed to his greatness and totally ignored everything about his Pre draft process being the drizzly turds.

He should've focused more on tape because pretty much every OL his teams have drafted have been busts in the league and his failure to identify and develop talent in Seattle is one of the main reasons they've had one of the worst OL in the league. 

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Really interesting discussion on Parker and Orlando Brown, I think you both make very valid points. 

From my perspective I thought Brown was a tremendous prospect but had big red flags due to his terrible combine - it wasn't just poor, it was horrible. As mentioned, with big guys who are already normally very overweight to begin with that is a legitimate reason for him to drop as it is effectively the most important interview of his life and he clearly hadn't prepared well so can understand why that dropped his value. That being said, clearly the tape was great and I put a decent amount of stock in the bloodlines too and thought he'd be great. 3rd round was probably the right value considering the reasonable concerns and at that time, in the 3rd I would have personally taken Brown over Parker but equally I can't be too critical of teams that passed on him as there were genuine reasons for concern. Also, Cable can make recommendations I'm sure but he's not actually making the picks, that's Gruden and Mayock and they gave the ultimate decision.

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8 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Since 2015, unanimous All-American OT...

Ronnie Stanley 

Taylor Decker

Ryan Ramczyk

Cam Robinson

Orlando Brown Jr

Mike McGlinchey

Jonah Williams

Mitch Hyatt

Penei Sewell

Andrew Thomas

Liam Eichenberg

Alex Leatherwood

I think an interesting thing to do on all of these guys listed would be to compare measurable’s & testing among them

Edited by Jeremy408
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