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2021 Free Agency


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On 7/25/2021 at 10:19 AM, drfrey13 said:

Don't worry about Ingram.  He will probably just go out and outproduce every defensive FA we signed this off-season.  Then people will defend this team and say the only reason why he produced is he went to Pittsburgh.

Tbf also, I thought about it but there's a reason our own player go elsewhere and improve. Like Autry. 

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22 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Nobody said instead of Ngakoue.  I actually forgot that we signed Ngakoue when I wrote that.  You can have both and he was injured for most of the year in 2020.  Bringing in guys that know the system is only going to help the transition also.  With Ingram able to play SLB in Bradley's system would be a big boost.  The reason why we did not sign him was he was out of shape.  His knee injury probably played a big role in him being out of shape.  

You said Ingram would out produce every defensive FA we signed, now you are saying you forgot about Ngakoue. 

For clarity do you think Ingram will out produce Ngakoue now you have remembered him ? 

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2 hours ago, Dessie said:

You said Ingram would out produce every defensive FA we signed, now you are saying you forgot about Ngakoue. 

For clarity do you think Ingram will out produce Ngakoue now you have remembered him ? 

Like I said I forgot about Ngaloue when I wrote that so I was implying that he would not be better than Ngakoue.  If both stayed healthy of course Ngakoue is the better player from my perspective.  I think they would be good together.  I would not expect Ingram to play as many downs for us as he will for Pitt either.  I think we would rotate him between SLB and Leo.  He would also contribute to the team as a mentor and tutor for the younger guys.  If Ingram stays healthy he could have 7-10 sacks.  We could have 3 guys with those same numbers.  We would also have the flexibility to run the 4-3 under and a SLB that can take on a TE.  Morrow is not that guy.  He should be competing with Littleton and playing 2nd string MLB.  Not really comfortable with him at MLB either.  When we play nothing but LTs at RT it would make sense that the defense wants to play nothing but WLBs and S at SLB.

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58 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Like I said I forgot about Ngaloue when I wrote that so I was implying that he would not be better than Ngakoue.  If both stayed healthy of course Ngakoue is the better player from my perspective.  I think they would be good together.  I would not expect Ingram to play as many downs for us as he will for Pitt either.  I think we would rotate him between SLB and Leo.  He would also contribute to the team as a mentor and tutor for the younger guys.  If Ingram stays healthy he could have 7-10 sacks.  We could have 3 guys with those same numbers.  We would also have the flexibility to run the 4-3 under and a SLB that can take on a TE.  Morrow is not that guy.  He should be competing with Littleton and playing 2nd string MLB.  Not really comfortable with him at MLB either.  When we play nothing but LTs at RT it would make sense that the defense wants to play nothing but WLBs and S at SLB.

Yeah again I understand where you're coming from but the young guys need to play too. Maxx included. Ingram can rush from the inside, but he'll get more PT with Pitt, plus a chance to get a modest deal next offseason.

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2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Yeah again I understand where you're coming from but the young guys need to play too. Maxx included. Ingram can rush from the inside, but he'll get more PT with Pitt, plus a chance to get a modest deal next offseason.

Ingram ended up in a better situation for himself but that was after we passed.  The only player I see Ingram taking time away from is Morrow and Koonce.  I do not think either one provides the impact Ingram would have next year.  Ingram would play when Crosby or Ngakoue needed a breather and would start at SLB.  In the 4-3 under we could have had -

Crosby - Ferrell - Jefferson or Thomas - Ngakoue - Ingram

That group should be able to apply some pressure.  Who is playing the SLB in the 4-3 under now?  Koonce is the only player that fits the role.  Maybe Crosby but then who do you put opposite Ngakoue on passing downs?  Koonce once again is your only option.  So we are going to rely on a 3rd round rookie who is probably not ready.  Without a dominant force in the middle we are going to need everyone to play greater than the sum of their parts.  With Koonce in there I do not see it happening and we are limiting Bradley.  Ingram would have been a good bridge player who could have helped with the development of Koonce.  Good choice for Ingram that we passed but a bad decision for us.

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15 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Ingram ended up in a better situation for himself but that was after we passed.  The only player I see Ingram taking time away from is Morrow and Koonce.  I do not think either one provides the impact Ingram would have next year.  Ingram would play when Crosby or Ngakoue needed a breather and would start at SLB.  In the 4-3 under we could have had -

Crosby - Ferrell - Jefferson or Thomas - Ngakoue - Ingram

That group should be able to apply some pressure.  Who is playing the SLB in the 4-3 under now?  Koonce is the only player that fits the role.  Maybe Crosby but then who do you put opposite Ngakoue on passing downs?  Koonce once again is your only option.  So we are going to rely on a 3rd round rookie who is probably not ready.  Without a dominant force in the middle we are going to need everyone to play greater than the sum of their parts.  With Koonce in there I do not see it happening and we are limiting Bradley.  Ingram would have been a good bridge player who could have helped with the development of Koonce.  Good choice for Ingram that we passed but a bad decision for us.

Not sure what you are saying here. On passing downs we won’t be playing a SLB, so Crosby and Ngakoue I would expect to be the DE’s with 2 LBs. Much will depend on what scheme Bradley comes up with in terms of SLB. Maybe it will Deablo/Abram like what the Panthers did with Chinn last year with a bit of Crosby at SLB with Ferrell at DE at times.

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4 hours ago, Dessie said:

Not sure what you are saying here. On passing downs we won’t be playing a SLB, so Crosby and Ngakoue I would expect to be the DE’s with 2 LBs. Much will depend on what scheme Bradley comes up with in terms of SLB. Maybe it will Deablo/Abram like what the Panthers did with Chinn last year with a bit of Crosby at SLB with Ferrell at DE at times.

Bradley will bring the heat on passing downs.  Not every time but the 4-3 under is a tool in his bag.  In a 4-3 under we would have 4 down linemen and a SLB who plays like a 3-4 OLB.  It is the role Ingram played with Bradley.  We do not have a player that fits the 3-4 OLB except Crosby, maybe, and Koonce.  Crosby does not make sense when bringing pressure cause you would take one of you top pass rushers away to fill the role.  Koonce I believe will not be ready to be a back up pass rusher or a 3-4 OLB role.  Similar to putting Parker in at RT his rookie year coming from a small school.  Possibility of looking like a bust year one is very high.  Ingram would have been a perfect bridge player and provided depth at DE.  But Gruden and company are so smart that they have proven me wrong every year when I question their decisions.  I really hope Bradley proves me wrong this year.

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2 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Bradley will bring the heat on passing downs.  Not every time but the 4-3 under is a tool in his bag.  In a 4-3 under we would have 4 down linemen and a SLB who plays like a 3-4 OLB.  It is the role Ingram played with Bradley.  We do not have a player that fits the 3-4 OLB except Crosby, maybe, and Koonce.  Crosby does not make sense when bringing pressure cause you would take one of you top pass rushers away to fill the role.  Koonce I believe will not be ready to be a back up pass rusher or a 3-4 OLB role.  Similar to putting Parker in at RT his rookie year coming from a small school.  Possibility of looking like a bust year one is very high.  Ingram would have been a perfect bridge player and provided depth at DE.  But Gruden and company are so smart that they have proven me wrong every year when I question their decisions.  I really hope Bradley proves me wrong this year.

Yeah I am well aware what the 4-3 under is, but on passing downs we are gonna be in a nickel package which doesn’t feature the SLB as you suggested. Crosby at SLB would be in run situations only. With the safeties we have we can be interchangeable to mix up our looks. 

We have Ferrell, Crosby, Ngakoue, Nassib and Koonce for DE, how much more depth do we need? Once we signed Ngakoue I don’t see the need for Ingram and understand why we passed on him. 

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15 hours ago, Dessie said:

Yeah I am well aware what the 4-3 under is, but on passing downs we are gonna be in a nickel package which doesn’t feature the SLB as you suggested. Crosby at SLB would be in run situations only. With the safeties we have we can be interchangeable to mix up our looks. 

We have Ferrell, Crosby, Ngakoue, Nassib and Koonce for DE, how much more depth do we need? Once we signed Ngakoue I don’t see the need for Ingram and understand why we passed on him. 

I see your point also but I am not a fan of Nassib and think Koonce will not be ready.  That leaves Ferrell (Who will play 5T or inside and provides very little in the pass rush department), Crosby and Ngakoue.  We do not have a legitimate 3rd pass rusher in my eyes.  Like most other positions we have hopes.  If Koonce can step in and play well or Nassib can get 6-7 sacks then none of this matters but I do not see it happening.  An injury to Crosby or Ngakoue combined with no pressure up the middle and this defense is going to look really bad again at all levels.  At least it is an improvement over last year.

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2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I see your point also but I am not a fan of Nassib and think Koonce will not be ready.  That leaves Ferrell (Who will play 5T or inside and provides very little in the pass rush department), Crosby and Ngakoue.  We do not have a legitimate 3rd pass rusher in my eyes.  Like most other positions we have hopes.  If Koonce can step in and play well or Nassib can get 6-7 sacks then none of this matters but I do not see it happening.  An injury to Crosby or Ngakoue combined with no pressure up the middle and this defense is going to look really bad again at all levels.  At least it is an improvement over last year.

Nassibs contract always made it unlikely we would want to commit to anything more than a vet minimum contract for another depth DE which makes financial sense.

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2 hours ago, Dessie said:

Nassibs contract always made it unlikely we would want to commit to anything more than a vet minimum contract for another depth DE which makes financial sense.

I have criticized our front office a lot for moves specifically like this.  They take chances and commit money to players that do not workout and then they have opportunities they can not take because of the idiotic cap moves.  They back themselves into a corner.  A million here and there adds up quickly.

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I highly doubt Melvin Ingram would put produce the players he'd take reps from.  He's 32yo and had 0 sacks in 8 games last year and 7.0 each the 2 years before that.

I'd be happy if we signed him for depth and mentorship but I'd much rather have Crosby, Ferrell, and even Koonce taking those snaps.

if there is a FA we should have signed it was sCB Brian Poole.  Justin Houston is still Out there and a much high quality Player if you want an edge rusher.

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10 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I have criticized our front office a lot for moves specifically like this.  They take chances and commit money to players that do not workout and then they have opportunities they can not take because of the idiotic cap moves.  They back themselves into a corner.  A million here and there adds up quickly.

I've been saying the same thing for years..... sadly though with Nassib it was more like 9.5m before we were able to move some money to next year.... but no matter how you split it there was never a world in which Nassib would be worth what he paid him.

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On 7/27/2021 at 5:40 PM, drfrey13 said:

Like I said I forgot about Ngaloue when I wrote that so I was implying that he would not be better than Ngakoue.  If both stayed healthy of course Ngakoue is the better player from my perspective.  I think they would be good together.  I would not expect Ingram to play as many downs for us as he will for Pitt either.  I think we would rotate him between SLB and Leo.  He would also contribute to the team as a mentor and tutor for the younger guys.  If Ingram stays healthy he could have 7-10 sacks.  We could have 3 guys with those same numbers.  We would also have the flexibility to run the 4-3 under and a SLB that can take on a TE.  Morrow is not that guy.  He should be competing with Littleton and playing 2nd string MLB.  Not really comfortable with him at MLB either.  When we play nothing but LTs at RT it would make sense that the defense wants to play nothing but WLBs and S at SLB.

once we got Yannick... we didn't really need Ingram. Cle will rotate as well as other guys. we have more depth on Dline now.  

 

if we didn't have nassib then I could see a spot for him. but nassib making too much unless cut

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