NYRaider Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 1 hour ago, dante9876 said: So he was a bright spot cause he played well considering he was hurt. I disagree. He was on the field, alot. He didn't do a whole lot. Hurt or not. He was 8th in TFL, 4th in QB hurries, 14th in QB hits, and 32nd in sacks last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 5 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: You think Kwit is only a 2 down player? I'm not a PFF buff, but he's one of the better LB in the league and their grade for him (more based on a lack of mistakes than anything) backs it up. He also forced 2 or 3 turnovers (a pick and a FF or so) IIRC. Yeah, Kwit's a 3 down guy all day. Star? Probably not, but of the 11 guys on D, he's one of the few we don't need to upgrade on to field a respectable unit. Stereotypical solid LB who isn't much of a liability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 1 minute ago, ronjon1990 said: Yeah, Kwit's a 3 down guy all day. Star? Probably not, but of the 11 guys on D, he's one of the few we don't need to upgrade on to field a respectable unit. Stereotypical solid LB who isn't much of a liability. Yeah, Kwit is a good role player. He'll never be a huge impact guy but he'll be solid week in and week out. Hopefully Littleton can return to form in Bradley's scheme because he was one of the most productive LB's in the league during his final 2 seasons with the Rams and also graded out as one of the best linebackers in coverage during that span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, NYRaider said: Crosby isn't elite but 7 sacks, 14 TFL, 14 QB hits is decent for a complimentary pass rusher. Agreed. Crosby is one of those pretty good players who could be better with some help. Considering that he's getting the stat totals we "hope" a former top 5 pick might get to....that's definitely a bright spot. He, Kwit, amd Mullen are the 3 guys we don't "need" upgraded play from. If the other 8 guys on the field were capable starters, those 3 are slightly above average at worst. When the other 8 are replacement level, they still hold the fort down enough to prove their long-term value. Put Crosby on a D-line like Washington's or the Rams, he's probably a double-digit sack guy. No team is fielding 11 All-Pros. But Crosby is perfectly capable of a Pro Bowl caliber year every so often. His production is just a bit tied to the rest of the team. He's not transcendent, but perfectly capable of a starting role at least. Edited March 6, 2021 by ronjon1990 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 15 hours ago, OnlyGlove said: But its all about saving cap. Saving cap to spend on upgrades. Having a ton of cap space is only good if we use it on upgrading positions of need and not signing bloated contracts for rotational pieces. We played the "save a ton of cap space" game for years under Reggie McKenzie, as if we were saving money for a down payment. And it got us nowhere. As for the guysbin question: Richard is ridiculously average at best and not a particularly good run option. He screams one of those guys who might sign with another team and have a handful of touches at best, if he makes a roster. Booker actually produced as a runner. Of the two, Booker is far more valuable as he can actually take a bit of Jacobs' load off his back if needed. Relationship with Carr or not, that relationship as a 3rd or 4th string guy doesn't mean much. And the draft is pretty deep with similar types of RBs. Without spending a fairly premium pick, we're not getting a Booker type replacement. And we have too many holes for that. Heath is a tough one, and only because of Abram. He's not physically talented enough to really push Abram the way he needs to. Now, to be frank, I'd prefer to keep Heath and cut Abram. He may not have the "potential", but I don't see Abram's "potential" being reached. We need to find a backup that actually pushes him, because, like it or not, we aren't cutting him. Focus on finding a starting FS and either draft a toolsy guy in the mid rounds to push at SS, or see if there's anyone on the market. Heath, imo, just represents us being continually teased by him playing better than Abram but not being able to fully supplant him. Personally, I'm cool keeping him or letting him go. Key is so far down the pecking order he's practically irrelevant. We're almost assuredly drafting early or prioritizing a pass rusher in FA, which will essentially push Crosby or someone else down the chart, replacing Key by default. He's got like 50 tackles, 3 sacks, and 26 QB hits across 3 seasons. No matter what, he's just not used enough to miss if he's gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 11 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: Agreed. Crosby is one of those pretty good players who could be better with some help. Considering that he's getting the stat totals we "hope" a former top 5 pick might get to....that's definitely a bright spot. He, Kwit, amd Mullen are the 3 guys we don't "need" upgraded play from. If the other 8 guys on the field were capable starters, those 3 are slightly above average at worst. When the other 8 are replacement level, they still hold the fort down enough to prove their long-term value. Put Crosby on a D-line like Washington's or the Rams, he's probably a double-digit sack guy. No team is fielding 11 All-Pros. But Crosby is perfectly capable of a Pro Bowl caliber year every so often. His production is just a bit tied to the rest of the team. He's not transcendent, but perfectly capable of a starting role at least. You took the words out of my mouth, great post. Agreed that while Crosby isn't a star he's a very good role player that will/would be even more effective playing alongside a true difference maker that puts him in more one-on-one situations. The sack production decreased a little bit from year one to two but he was still near the top of the league in QB hits, pressures, and TFL. Kwit, Mullen, and Crosby were far from being issues for us defensively. Those 3 all were about average to slightly above average last season. Which is admirable considering the rest of the defense was absolutely terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 I guess Crosby isn't an issue if you don't care about run defense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 14 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: I guess Crosby isn't an issue if you don't care about run defense. No one is saying he's a perfect player, we literally said he was one of the few average to above average players on our defense last season. As far as run defense is considered why didn't guys like Nassib, Hankins, and Ferrell step up when that is what we paid them to do? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roi34 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 14 hours ago, dante9876 said: So he was a bright spot cause he played well considering he was hurt. I disagree. He was on the field, alot. He didn't do a whole lot. Hurt or not. doesn't rest of Dline production also hurt and help him? I'd say they hurt more than helped. not like out DTs were tearing it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 7 minutes ago, NYRaider said: No one is saying he's a perfect player, we literally said he was one of the few average to above average players on our defense last season. As far as run defense is considered why didn't guys like Nassib, Hankins, and Ferrell step up when that is what we paid them to do? Step up for Crosby? That's not how football works. How do you expect the DE on the other side of the field to compensate for that weakness? A way to compensate for that would be to use Crosby in a reduced role. And he'd probably be a more effective pass rusher too. Instead, he played the most snaps on the dline. Anyway, i was just stating that there is a glaring weakness in his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roi34 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 14 minutes ago, NYRaider said: No one is saying he's a perfect player, we literally said he was one of the few average to above average players on our defense last season. As far as run defense is considered why didn't guys like Nassib, Hankins, and Ferrell step up when that is what we paid them to do? not saying ferrell filled up the stat sheet but I think he was solid. he's not going to be a 8-10 sack guy most likely but if he gets high pressures and gets 7 sacks with his run defense that's great. wish we got him late first and had white but I didn't do draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 1 minute ago, roi34 said: doesn't rest of Dline production also hurt and help him? I'd say they hurt more than helped. not like out DTs were tearing it up I'd say that Kwit, Crosby, and Mullen all suffered due to the poor play from the rest of our defensive line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, roi34 said: not saying ferrell filled up the stat sheet but I think he was solid. he's not going to be a 8-10 sack guy most likely but if he gets high pressures and gets 7 sacks with his run defense that's great. wish we got him late first and had white but I didn't do draft. He has 6.5 sacks in 28 games and 4.5 of those sacks came in 2 games. Which means he has 2 sacks in his other 26 starts, not sure how that inspires confidence. And if his run defense was great why were we one of the worst teams at stopping the run in the league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 27 minutes ago, NYRaider said: No one is saying he's a perfect player, we literally said he was one of the few average to above average players on our defense last season. As far as run defense is considered why didn't guys like Nassib, Hankins, and Ferrell step up when that is what we paid them to do? So an average player is considered a bright spot. Back to my original statement we have to higher our standards a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 1 minute ago, dante9876 said: So an average player is considered a bright spot. Back to my original statement we have to higher our standards a bit. He was a bright spot, as he was above average on one of the worst defenses and defensive lines in franchise history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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