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GDT Week 6: Sunday Night Football - New York Giants @ Denver Broncos


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22 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Such a classic DT game. Probably our best player, while also killing us on two or three plays. Oh and a couple PI flops. When you're best plays on offense are PI calls (one of which was a trash call and the other one was lucky due to an underthrow), it's not gonna be a good night

After last night's game if anyone tries to compare Trevor siemian to Tom Brady I will fight them. Listen it's unfortunate Elways favorite qb In the 2016 was Carson Wentz who is killing it if we had a guy like that on this team we'd be super bowl contenders but we don't.  Trevor isn't getting better he's maxed out. IT'S ashame we had no ammo to get Wentz. 

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49 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

He throws the 8 yard comeback route and that's it everything else is dependent on hitting that he like works off of that.

What I don't get is Paxton lynch why ir him? If he's healthy enough take the training wheels off and throw him into the fire. Like it's clear to me we are going no where with Siemian.  It has kinda always been. 

Me as a fan I'd rather see lynch get thrown into the fire and see if he improves or the light turns on in actual games. Than at best have a first round wild card exit.

Because Trevor is only good when he is supported by complimentary football he needs a dominant run game, and that comeback route to open up everything else.

As bad as lynch was in preseason he can create on his own with his legs. I just wanna see the first round investment play the rest of the way at this point because the 7th round investment isn't getting us anywhere. And I don't believe this offense was/ is bare of weapons I think Trevor makes it look that way.

Lynch already has happy feet. Throwing him in behind this OL won't help his development. 

Trevor looks like he's hearing footsteps every play. Getting beat up every play will do that to you.

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Had a very rough night sleeping and I tapped out of that debacle early in the third.  Had to realize that as I predicted ahead of the season we will be lucky to be a six win team.  Also had the confirmation that my second favourite team the Lions are even more pathetic than these broncos but I really knew that already.  Hindsight is easy but I had a feeling that the giants would be desperate but they didn't play desperate, they were poised and in control while we were flat.  My biggest gripe so far is MCCOY.  Why did we hire this retread failure?  He is just not creative and you know what I think - I think we have a lot of untapped potential.  We could throw to our backs, our tight ends could be used more than once a game, I mean I can go on and on.  I believe we should have hired Shanny and stuck with Woods on the D though the D isn't all its cracked up to be.  Von's got a few sacks but those are that expense of his offsides so that he can get the jump and get the sack.  Shane Ray will help with pressure but will he hurt our run D (I'm kind of thinking so)?  And I always felt we were weak at WR - I mean who do we have after DT and Sanders?  I think I better stop because I am just getting worked up again.........man oh man what a brutally pathetic loss and yes I can see Siemian's faults.  You know, I'm going to go there........we tried for Kap last year so why not go there again and why be loyal to two clone Elway QB pix whose common attribute is they are brutal!!        

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3 hours ago, broncos67 said:

- The defense didn't play terrible, although it certainly wasn't great. I'm sick and tired of the zone defense though. I read an article where Joe Woods talked about having the CBs play more zone "to preserve them for the long run." Hopefully after this game that strategy gets reconsidered because frankly it's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Woods is borderline taking this defense from elite to just good and it needs to change. I would argue part of the reason for Simmons struggling sometimes is because of this stupid zone coverage. Let the guys do what they do best. Period. End of story.

I expressed concern about this during camp and the offseason when Woods was talking about mixing in some zone. I said that's the dumbest idea you could do given that the crop of talent we have, especially in the back end. You have to play to your talent's strengths, that is something that the fan boys and cheerleaders in the media said this coaching staff would do. I'd like to see it. 

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Idk guys, did a wideout even have a reception? I agree that the defense wan't good enough last night, but I don't personally have an issue with the zone scheming. Playing less man to preserve the best position group on our team makes sense to me....especially against a team like the Giants where the WRs aren't going to beat you. That being said the TE coverage and execution was not good enough. I think one of the DB's said they were having communication issues and were supposed to be doubling Engram. Idk what that's about. 

The defense was solid last night, but gave up a couple pop plays and couldn't force the turnover. Gotta be better to win with our offense as we know. 

Props to Peko, who was very good again last night. Stewart stuck out to me as well. Simmons is still inconsistent. 

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2 hours ago, champ11 said:

Shanahan performance that one.

@broncos67 I agree with you for the most part, disagree about the zone on defense though. I think the preservation thing, both in game and for the long haul, makes some sense. The only guy that was beating us last night was Engram and this team had similar struggles with tight ends last year. Zone needs a better pass rush than what we have been doing though. This defense has been clearly better than last year's, IMO. 

Yeah Engram was the only receiver that could hurt us last night, why wasn't Talib covering him? It's not like he's a Gronk-sized TE, he's really just a big WR. Another example of Woods dropping the ball. 

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16 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Yeah Engram was the only receiver that could hurt us last night, why wasn't Talib covering him? It's not like he's a Gronk-sized TE, he's really just a big WR. Another example of Woods dropping the ball. 

Yeah, I would have liked to see that. We were clamoring for the same thing last year when we struggled with tight ends. Dropped the ball with the TE last night, but I think Woods deserves credit for the run defense scheming that has led to such a huge improvement there. 

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24 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Idk guys, did a wideout even have a reception? I agree that the defense wan't good enough last night, but I don't personally have an issue with the zone scheming. Playing less man to preserve the best position group on our team makes sense to me....especially against a team like the Giants where the WRs aren't going to beat you. That being said the TE coverage and execution was not good enough. I think one of the DB's said they were having communication issues and were supposed to be doubling Engram. Idk what that's about. 

The defense was solid last night, but gave up a couple pop plays and couldn't force the turnover. Gotta be better to win with our offense as we know. 

Props to Peko, who was very good again last night. Stewart stuck out to me as well. Simmons is still inconsistent. 

Here's the problem with zone last night- you're relying on Todd Davis and Marshall to take care of Engram. I get that zone preserves players, but we need to be willing to be flexible if things won't work. Last night Engram gashed this team and they should have adjusted quicker.

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4 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Yeah, I would have liked to see that. We were clamoring for the same thing last year when we struggled with tight ends. Dropped the ball with the TE last night, but I think Woods deserves credit for the run defense scheming that has led to such a huge improvement there. 

Has that been scheme or talent? Shaq Barrett is a much better run defender on the weak side than either Ray or Ware were last year, Peko has been a big upgrade over Williams and Gotsis has really rounded into form opposite Wolfe. 

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Just now, AnAngryAmerican said:

Has that been scheme or talent? Shaq Barrett is a much better run defender on the weak side than either Ray or Ware were last year, Peko has been a big upgrade over Williams and Gotsis has really rounded into form opposite Wolfe. 

Obviously both, but I have read that players are playing their assignments much better and the scheming has focused on the run stopping. We have the talent to put 7 or 8 in the box, which we have done a lot. Really the key to run defense is working as a unit and playing smart assignment football and that has been a positive change from last season. 

 

@broncos67 fair point on the adjustment and I agree with it. Thought we were gonna savage their OL last night, so really I think that is where I have the most disappointment w the performance

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3 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Obviously both, but I have read that players are playing their assignments much better and the scheming has focused on the run stopping. We have the talent to put 7 or 8 in the box, which we have done a lot. Really the key to run defense is working as a unit and playing smart assignment football and that has been a positive change from last season. 

 

@broncos67 fair point on the adjustment and I agree with it. Thought we were gonna savage their OL last night, so really I think that is where I have the most disappointment w the performance

Yeah good point. It's both. I agree. 

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On 10/11/2017 at 4:38 PM, Broncofan said:

Have you seen the Vegas lines?

DEN is -700.  You have to bet 700 bucks to win 100.  WOW.

I'll take DEN -11.5, thank you very much.   I think the line might get 14+ by the weekend, and Vegas might remove it altogether.

There was something wrong with this game and LV knew it. The opening line was way too low and drew in millions on the Broncos. LV cleaned up big time! 

I lived in Nevada for over a decade and did pretty well at the Sports Books.

Every once in a while they'd post a line that looked ridiculous. I learned the hard way, never take the bait.

They don't build those casinos by being stupid.

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There is plenty of blame to go around for this loss - 

1. The team wasn't prepared - that's on Joseph

2. The offence was anemic - that's on McCoy

3. The defence seemed to lack the gameplan to stop a seriously under resourced Giants offence - that's on Woods

4. McManus is in a slump - that's on Olivo

5. The OL is a mess - that is on Elway.

There are three problems with Siemian - texams have film after a couple of games and can scheme against him - he needs a dominant running game and with the OL he doesn't have it - he is going to repeatedly get hit because we have big holes on the OL and his injuries will mount up. The likely result of all this is that he will end up as a career back-up.

I said before the game that if we couldn't beat the Giants, given the situation they are in, we can forget about doing anything this season - and after five games we are probably looking at, best case, 9-7 or 8-8 season. It is unfortunate because this team has talent - holes in the team are crucial - RT and LG in particular - leading to significantly a reduced running game and a QB caught in headlights. 

I think Elway bears the bulk of the responsibility for what has happened - he was penny pinching this season. I know the cap is tight next year - but this defence is so good that anything approaching competency on offence we are contenders - and this team deserved significantly upgrading the OL which didn't happen. If Elway brought in 2 proper OLmen then the pressure would have been off Siemian and, despite his inadequacies, this team could have pounded the ball and built the passing game off of this.  Elway is rapidly using up his credit from the SB win - if VJ doesn't pan out then Elway could well carry the can for not hiring KS.

Now - if Siemian is hurt and Osweiler plays I am interested to see what will happen. Os has limitations - but he can throw the deep ball and defences will have to respect that which could (at least for a couple of games) open up the possibilities for the offence to actually contribute.

 

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7 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

There is plenty of blame to go around for this loss - 

1. The team wasn't prepared - that's on Joseph

2. The offence was anemic - that's on McCoy

3. The defence seemed to lack the gameplan to stop a seriously under resourced Giants offence - that's on Woods

4. McManus is in a slump - that's on Olivo

5. The OL is a mess - that is on Elway.

A more succinct and accurate summation of the current state of this team would be a hard to find. Well done @jolly red giant.

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