The Krafts and BB the GM.

[rfournier103]

We’ve all heard how Bill Belichick hasn’t drafted a Pro Bowler since 2013, and we all saw the SNF graphic that showed that all but the two most recent wide receivers drafted are out of the NFL. The QB situation is one of, if not the worst in the NFL. The 2020 draft was an unmitigated disaster. The Patriots are very likely on their way to a losing season and there are a boatload of personnel questions going forward. 

So... I have to wonder what the Krafts are thinking about how Belichick has been handling his drafts. He has been missing on the overwhelming majority - too many - of his picks, and I have to think there will be some kind of conversation about this if it hasn’t happened already. Will the Krafts let Belichick continue on the same course he’s been on and just hope things get better when it comes to drafting talent? If so, how much patience will ownership have? 

OR...

Will the Krafts decide that the present lack of talent on the Patriots is unacceptable and scale back Belichick’s personnel responsibilities? Maybe promoting or hiring a personnel/draft guy? How would Bill handle that?

I have to believe that if the Patriots have another “2020” draft, there’s no QB plan in place, and next season is anything like this one, Belichick might find himself having a very serious discussion with Robert and Jonathan Kraft regarding his future employment with the New England Patriots.

What do you guys think? 

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by rfournier103

[Crimmage]

I think BB has a lifetime pass with Robert Kraft .. now if Jonathan fully takes over that could change. 

 

With regards to the 2020 draft, I think this could turn into his best draft in almost a decade. We've had a lot of rookies show flashes that they can play in this league and this is all during a covid season where they had no preseason / greatly reduced practice time... I would expect many rookies around the league to make huge jumps next season because of that. 

• Dugger: Played a lot more than expected, has gotten more playing time throughout the season and will likely be Chungs full time replacement next season
• Uche: He was injured.. but if he was playing all season like he has the past few games.. he would be putting up huge numbers. He has shown that he can put pressure on the QB, i'm pretty excited about him going forward assuming he stays healthy
• Jennings: up and down but he seems to be a solid contributor going forward. Not flashy but I think he could be a reliable player on the team if he continues to get increased play time
• Asiasi: No QB .. injury .. F for this season but i'm still hopeful
• Keene: No QB .. injury .. F for this season but i'm still hopeful
• Rohrwasser: F .. this one blew my mind .. but at the end of the day it was a 5th rounder so it is what it is 
• Onwenu: Future pro-bowler .. can play all over the line.. home run hit .. is going to save a lot of money with Thuney leaving next season
• Herron: Hasn't played as much as Onwenu but I think this guy could be a reliable starter for years to come too.. think of how much money will be saved getting rid of Cannon and Thuney next season with these two guys replacing them?!? 

What we need is contributors, people who are going to be reliable starters and stay in the league for a decade. I usually don't like judging a draft before 2-3 years but we can see progress from this draft class and that's all I could ask for personally. 

[Hunter2_1]

Was the 2020 draft all that bad?

 

Dugger is contributing a lot now and is basically a starter

Jennings and Uche have seen their snaps increase, and Uche has brought some pressure 

TEs are disappointing, but it looks like BB is red shirting them

Onwenu is one of BB's best EVER picks in his career, and is putting up All-Pro level performances week in and out (LAR game not withstanding...)

 

It's not a bad draft.

 

 

That said, he needs to have WR selecting powers taken away from him.

[rfournier103]

36 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Was the 2020 draft all that bad?

 

Dugger is contributing a lot now and is basically a starter

Jennings and Uche have seen their snaps increase, and Uche has brought some pressure 

TEs are disappointing, but it looks like BB is red shirting them

Onwenu is one of BB's best EVER picks in his career, and is putting up All-Pro level performances week in and out (LAR game not withstanding...)

 

It's not a bad draft.

 

 

That said, he needs to have WR selecting powers taken away from him.

You both make an excellent case for the 2020 draft. 
 

That being said, there is absolutely no visible plan for retooling the offense in general and the quarterback position in particular. Are we in for another free agent stopgap caretaker on the cheap? Young first round quarterbacks are expensive and  the odds seeing another Hall of Fame quarterback fall into our laps in the sixth round are minuscule at best. Something like that only happens once every twenty or thirty years. Johnny Unitas and Joe Montana come to mind. 
 

I was hoping for Jake Fromm to be drafted to compete with Jarrett Stidham for the top job. May the better man win. This year I’d love to see Zach Wilson come to Foxborough. Barring an absolute catastrophe this season, Brian Hoyer will likely never throw another NFL pass. Ever. If we must have a veteran come in, make it Stafford, Ryan, or Garoppolo. Someone with some tread on the tires, and tell them that it will be an open competition with Stidham and our 2021 QB draftee. If nobody is interested, we throw the kids out there and we see what they can do. 
 

Of course, Bill needs to make sure the offensive line remains a team strength, and the Patriots MUST get a top level tight end and wide receiver. 
 

This offense needs a lot of work. I just hope Belichick doesn’t cheap out on the QB position again. 

[DoleINGout]

Shout out to the UDFA's but not the draft picks over the past 10 years! 🙌

[Crimmage]

Regarding QB last season, BB had no money to try and go out for a top tier free agent. Even if he did would we truly be happy with someone like Bridgewater? 

The offense certainly looks like a mess.. but we have A LOT of positives as hard as it may seem.

OL: Assuming David Andrews is resigned, you've got a young and very good offensive line going forward.

RB: Harris has shown to be a good RB you can count on.. if White leaves they may need a 3rd down back but for the most part BB has been great at drafting receiving backs ( vareen, white, etc.). 

TE: Two were drafted this past season, both suffered injuries and BB has stated for years that he feels TE is one of the hardest positions to acclimate to the next level. I thought Asiasi had great potential when drafted and I still believe he could be really good.. but the QB situation, covid season, etc etc make it hard to judge them. Add a Veteran to go with them and they could be in good shape next season. 

WR: Meyers is decent, Byrd is decent, Harry is a bust but who knows maybe he can become decent one day lol.. Add one good WR to this group ( many available this off season) and they will be in good shape. BB has never invested in top tier WR's.. and teams which put all their money into WR haven't historically been successful ( look at Atlanta). 

QB: This is where everyone will want to complain but would anyone be happy if we kept Jimmy and got rid of Brady a few years ago? He's so injury prone that it looks like BB made the right decision there (even if it may have been more of Krafts than his). Jordan Love is the only player you could try and say should have been drafted but that's really only if you feel he could be great one day. The rest of the QB's selected are backups at best. Dynasties end.. and the Pats are now just like everyone else.. it could take decades to find another "special" QB.. so it makes sense to try and build the rest of the team and do what you can to find the next guy.

 

Given how much money they have this offseason, we could easily see a WR, TE, or maybe even a vet QB added to turn this into an above average offense. 

[m haynes]

6 hours ago, rfournier103 said:

We’ve all heard how Bill Belichick hasn’t drafted a Pro Bowler since 2013, and we all saw the SNF graphic that showed that all but the two most recent wide receivers drafted are out of the NFL. The QB situation is one of, if not the worst in the NFL. The 2020 draft was an unmitigated disaster. The Patriots are very likely on their way to a losing season and there are a boatload of personnel questions going forward. 

So... I have to wonder what the Krafts are thinking about how Belichick has been handling his drafts. He has been missing on the overwhelming majority - too many - of his picks, and I have to think there will be some kind of conversation about this if it hasn’t happened already. Will the Krafts let Belichick continue on the same course he’s been on and just hope things get better when it comes to drafting talent? If so, how much patience will ownership have? 

OR...

Will the Krafts decide that the present lack of talent on the Patriots is unacceptable and scale back Belichick’s personnel responsibilities? Maybe promoting or hiring a personnel/draft guy? How would Bill handle that?

I have to believe that if the Patriots have another “2020” draft, there’s no QB plan in place, and next season is anything like this one, Belichick might find himself having a very serious discussion with Robert and Jonathan Kraft regarding his future employment with the New England Patriots.

What do you guys think? 

 

 

 

 

Your whole argument would take 15 pages for someone to give a counter argument and to provide evidence to  counter some of the thing you said.

The is one major thing you left out. BB has all the power, he can leave at (100% control over football operation in his contract) any time,  if the Krafts  even attempt to do things you mentioned. He walks. You don't tell BB what to do because if he walks there are 32 teams that will be knocking down his door.  We are talking about the greatest coach that ever lived and there is no way I do anything to cause him to leave.

We have all watched football for years and seen how most (EX Tampa) team are run and I want no part of that, ever. I'm old timer, I have seen 20 of greatness and 30 year of misery, I could care less about his drafting what I care about is winning. How can anyone even think of letting him go. Its insane!

Lastly,  Don't believe what the Sports writers say, ever. The Jimmy G thing is total bull crap. Kraft force BB , MY BUTT. When is comes to BB stories, the are ALL BS. Tom Curran and his gang of idiots are clueless.  Ya, they have sources, ya right. Judge goes to the Giants and they were all shocked!!! Not a frigging clue.

Kraft and BB in the office. Bill trade Jimmy, now. Moments later, Door slams!!!! BB driving down RT1 to his new team!

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by m haynes

[m haynes]

5 hours ago, Crimmage said:

I think BB has a lifetime pass with Robert Kraft .. now if Jonathan fully takes over that could change. 

 

With regards to the 2020 draft, I think this could turn into his best draft in almost a decade. We've had a lot of rookies show flashes that they can play in this league and this is all during a covid season where they had no preseason / greatly reduced practice time... I would expect many rookies around the league to make huge jumps next season because of that. 

• Dugger: Played a lot more than expected, has gotten more playing time throughout the season and will likely be Chungs full time replacement next season
• Uche: He was injured.. but if he was playing all season like he has the past few games.. he would be putting up huge numbers. He has shown that he can put pressure on the QB, i'm pretty excited about him going forward assuming he stays healthy
• Jennings: up and down but he seems to be a solid contributor going forward. Not flashy but I think he could be a reliable player on the team if he continues to get increased play time
• Asiasi: No QB .. injury .. F for this season but i'm still hopeful
• Keene: No QB .. injury .. F for this season but i'm still hopeful
• Rohrwasser: F .. this one blew my mind .. but at the end of the day it was a 5th rounder so it is what it is 
• Onwenu: Future pro-bowler .. can play all over the line.. home run hit .. is going to save a lot of money with Thuney leaving next season
• Herron: Hasn't played as much as Onwenu but I think this guy could be a reliable starter for years to come too.. think of how much money will be saved getting rid of Cannon and Thuney next season with these two guys replacing them?!? 

What we need is contributors, people who are going to be reliable starters and stay in the league for a decade. I usually don't like judging a draft before 2-3 years but we can see progress from this draft class and that's all I could ask for personally. 

Just want to add, for every " Rohrwasser: F .. this one blew my mind .. but at the end of the day it was a 5th rounder so it is what it is"  there's a  " The New England Patriots traded up four spots to select the Stanford specialist at No. 163 overall, Jake Bailey ! 😁👍

[m haynes]

2 hours ago, Crimmage said:

Regarding QB last season, BB had no money to try and go out for a top tier free agent. Even if he did would we truly be happy with someone like Bridgewater? 

The offense certainly looks like a mess.. but we have A LOT of positives as hard as it may seem.

OL: Assuming David Andrews is resigned, you've got a young and very good offensive line going forward.

RB: Harris has shown to be a good RB you can count on.. if White leaves they may need a 3rd down back but for the most part BB has been great at drafting receiving backs ( vareen, white, etc.). 

TE: Two were drafted this past season, both suffered injuries and BB has stated for years that he feels TE is one of the hardest positions to acclimate to the next level. I thought Asiasi had great potential when drafted and I still believe he could be really good.. but the QB situation, covid season, etc etc make it hard to judge them. Add a Veteran to go with them and they could be in good shape next season. 

WR: Meyers is decent, Byrd is decent, Harry is a bust but who knows maybe he can become decent one day lol.. Add one good WR to this group ( many available this off season) and they will be in good shape. BB has never invested in top tier WR's.. and teams which put all their money into WR haven't historically been successful ( look at Atlanta). 

QB: This is where everyone will want to complain but would anyone be happy if we kept Jimmy and got rid of Brady a few years ago? He's so injury prone that it looks like BB made the right decision there (even if it may have been more of Krafts than his). Jordan Love is the only player you could try and say should have been drafted but that's really only if you feel he could be great one day. The rest of the QB's selected are backups at best. Dynasties end.. and the Pats are now just like everyone else.. it could take decades to find another "special" QB.. so it makes sense to try and build the rest of the team and do what you can to find the next guy.

 

Given how much money they have this offseason, we could easily see a WR, TE, or maybe even a vet QB added to turn this into an above average offense. 

Sorry Crimmage I keep adding to your great posts. 

They also have a boat load of picks in 2021 (+comp picks) and when they're done cutting and trading they will have 100+ million in the bank. In a year when the Cap is reduced by 25 mil.👀

Edited December 17, 2020 by m haynes

[Crimmage]

42 minutes ago, m haynes said:

Just want to add, for every " Rohrwasser: F .. this one blew my mind .. but at the end of the day it was a 5th rounder so it is what it is"  there's a  " The New England Patriots traded up four spots to select the Stanford specialist at No. 163 overall, Jake Bailey ! 😁👍

haha you caught me on this one.. the homer in me says he is still on the practice squad so we've still got a chance of him being the next Ghost! .. but in reality it was a dumb move and he should have taken blankenship.. he was the no brainer kicker to get in this draft. 

Agreed on BB being the ruler of all decisions in Foxboro.. while we can complain about his drafting.. I wouldn't get rid of him because then we would likely have Caserio / McDaniels .. which imo would bomb horribly. BB probably wants to stick around long enough to get both of his kids head coaching jobs ( here or otherwise) then he will be happy enough to leave. I think his kids being on the staff is what will keep him around for as long as they are here. That along with the wins record he needs a few seasons of good football to achieve. 

You are correct on the draft as well.. they don't have their own third rounder ( idr why) but they will have a 3rd comp (brady) and likely 2 4th comps (Van Noy / Collins). I'm not sure how much depth is in this draft but they could easily be used to trade up as well. 

 

Morale of the story though is for some reason I have more confidence in the future now than I did at the beginning of the season. I still am angry Stidham hasn't played .. but we've seen some nice progress from young guys that I think a good offseason and this team will be in the playoffs again. The real question in my mind now is what would it cost to trade for Stafford? what would it cost to trade up for Wilson? and which is more likely to happen ( with how this season has gone i'm thinking BB wants a Vet QB to end his career not to start a rebuild). 

[m haynes]

6 minutes ago, Crimmage said:

haha you caught me on this one.. the homer in me says he is still on the practice squad so we've still got a chance of him being the next Ghost! .. but in reality it was a dumb move and he should have taken blankenship.. he was the no brainer kicker to get in this draft. 

Agreed on BB being the ruler of all decisions in Foxboro.. while we can complain about his drafting.. I wouldn't get rid of him because then we would likely have Caserio / McDaniels .. which imo would bomb horribly. BB probably wants to stick around long enough to get both of his kids head coaching jobs ( here or otherwise) then he will be happy enough to leave. I think his kids being on the staff is what will keep him around for as long as they are here. That along with the wins record he needs a few seasons of good football to achieve. 

You are correct on the draft as well.. they don't have their own third rounder ( idr why) but they will have a 3rd comp (brady) and likely 2 4th comps (Van Noy / Collins). I'm not sure how much depth is in this draft but they could easily be used to trade up as well. 

 

Morale of the story though is for some reason I have more confidence in the future now than I did at the beginning of the season. I still am angry Stidham hasn't played .. but we've seen some nice progress from young guys that I think a good offseason and this team will be in the playoffs again. The real question in my mind now is what would it cost to trade for Stafford? what would it cost to trade up for Wilson? and which is more likely to happen ( with how this season has gone i'm thinking BB wants a Vet QB to end his career not to start a rebuild). 

3 rd for Cincy taping

[Crimmage]

2 minutes ago, m haynes said:

3 rd for Cincy taping

Grr that makes me grumpy lol.. every other team gets fined or loses a 6th rounder.. anything happens with the Pats and it's a high pick.. 😠

[m haynes]

11 minutes ago, Crimmage said:

Grr that makes me grumpy lol.. every other team gets fined or loses a 6th rounder.. anything happens with the Pats and it's a high pick.. 😠

You would think they would break every frigging camera by now. Kraft included !😰

[One]

13 hours ago, rfournier103 said:

I have to believe that if the Patriots have another “2020” draft, there’s no QB plan in place, and next season is anything like this one, Belichick might find himself having a very serious discussion with Robert and Jonathan Kraft regarding his future employment with the New England Patriots.

What do you guys think? 

 

 

 

Do you realize how insanely stupid this sounds?

In spite of:

1. Losing a Hall of Fame quarterback

2. Leading the league in season opt outs

3. COVID completely changing how things are normally handeled

The team still has a realistic shot at 8-8/9-7 and have been competitive for most of the season.

You simply can't fire a SIX TIME SUPER BOWL WINNING coach over a couple of mediocre seasons during a rebuilding period.

Edited December 18, 2020 by One

[Apparition]

This stuff about not drafting a pro bowler since 2013 is so misleading. It assumes that all deserving players go to the PB, and no undeserving players do. It also excludes UDFAs.

Are you really going to tell me that just because players like James White, David Andrews, Trey Flowers, Shaq Mason, Jonathan Jones, Joe Thuney, Isaiah Wynn, JC Jackson, Chase Winovich and Damien Harris aren't "Pro Bowlers", they're not very good players? Or Malcolm Butler, for that matter. Made one of the biggest plays in NFL history as a rookie UDFA and made the Pro Bowl the following season. Mason, Andrews and Thuney have all been among the top players at their position. Jackson is poised to become a household name as a shutdown corner. White is one of the best 3rd down backs in recent NFL history. Flowers was an excellent player for 3 years here, made some huge plays in two Super Bowls and earned a huge payday from Detroit. Winovich and Harris are both great up-and-coming players at their positions. Oh, and let's not forget one of the starting QBs from the last Super Bowl was also in the mix (not about to get into a debate over how good JG is, but facts are facts). 

Could the track record be better at certain positions? Absolutely. But find me a team for whom that isn't true to some regard. 

The challenge of finding a new franchise QB is a huge one, and one that BB has yet to really take on in the past. But do you really not trust him to pull it off?