Week 15 - Rams vs Jets

[StLunatic88]

2 hours ago, JonStark said:

when you're the HC of a team and your team plays well against the top teams and then comes out flat against the games you should win (Dolphins, depleted 49ers, Jets), that's on you. You need to get your team up for every game. This team, as a whole, comes in overconfident to these types of games and it always costs them. That's on Mcvay and Goff. 

Couple of things here, I agree with most of what youre saying, but;

Why do people keep pretending that the Dolphins was a game we absolutely should have won? I mean I think we should have, and if Goff has just a bad game not a horrible one we probably still win, but that Defense is one of the best in the league. They are probably going to have Double Digit Wins, and should be a playoff team (or possibly one of the best records ever not to make it)

And anyone who thought those Niner games were anything other than Coin Flips is just not paying attention to how these two teams have fought over the last 7-8 years. The one game they were depleted, so you could argue we should have expected to win, but not both. Unless you are at the Chiefs level, you should not just expect you will win every game. Even the Packers & Bills (the next tier of teams) have struggles.

But Im also not sure how you blame an entire teams overconfidence (your final comment) on Goff? Thats a 100% Coaching thing.

Edited December 21, 2020 by StLunatic88

[MDY10]

57 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Couple of things here, I agree with most of what youre saying, but;

Why do people keep pretending that the Dolphins was a game we absolutely should have won? I mean I think we should have, and if Goff has just a bad game not a horrible one we probably still win, but that Defense is one of the best in the league. They are probably going to have Double Digit Wins, and should be a playoff team (or possibly one of the best records ever not to make it)

And anyone who thought those Niner games were anything other than Coin Flips is just not paying attention to how these two teams have fought over the last 7-8 years. The one game they were depleted, so you could argue we should have expected to win, but not both. Unless you are at the Chiefs level, you should not just expect you will win every game. Even the Packers & Bills (the next tier of teams) have struggles.

But Im also not sure how you blame an entire teams overconfidence (your final comment) on Goff? Thats a 100% Coaching thing.

I definitely disagree here. A coach can prepare a team and game plan and do whatever before a game. A coach can not.. and SHOULD not need to make players who are being paid to play the game WANT to play. A coach can not and should not have to motivate a team so much to want to play and win. Mcvay said all week they aren’t over looking them. He said all week that he knows they’re tough. He knows that upsets happen.. what can he do or say to a team to make them wake up wanting to fight?? Thats about heart and pride. You have captains for a reason. McVay isn’t always great but he did enough to win yesterday. He can’t make players block.. not make dumb interceptions, hold, clip, etc.. 
 

if anyone has a chance to listen to what Ryan Clark talked about this morning, be my guest because it’s word for word what I said over the last few weeks. Goff is just a guy. He can not lead a team. He can not put a team on his back when his team is struggling. He’s done it once? Twice maybe? He isn’t a guy that can make it work when he doesn’t have perfection around him. NOT SAYING THIS IS ALL ON HIM this time but he wasn’t great either. He once again showed that when his team needs it most and are struggling, he doesn’t pull them out of the trouble by being a 110 million dollar QB who is paid to make plays and win games. There was some problems but it wasn’t every single play. 

[StLunatic88]

5 minutes ago, MDY10 said:

he doesn’t pull them out of the trouble by being a 110 million dollar QB who is paid to make plays and win games

Once again, the $$$ argument is dumb and lazy and wrong. So every time anyone brings it up, it hurts any other argument you are trying to make.

He is being paid what QBs are paid, thats it, end of story, thats why Salary caps are as high as they are.

[MDY10]

3 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Once again, the $$$ argument is dumb and lazy and wrong. So every time anyone brings it up, it hurts any other argument you are trying to make.

He is being paid what QBs are paid, thats it, end of story, thats why Salary caps are as high as they are.

He was extended for a reason. Period. It’s crazy. If you’re at a job and get a raise, will you do worse? Or do better for more money? If a below average QB doesn’t do anything and stays below average.. he will not get that same money. He will not be the highest paid at signing. If you want to ignore everything I said because I said that a guy should keep performing well or better because he got extended to do JUST THAT.. then I will never argue with you again. Talk about everything else I said. When Goff got paid, they expected this really young guy who showed he can really be great at times. He could make any throw. They thought this guy would make progress every week/year. But he keeps under performing. He puts up one great game and then absolutely makes us forget about it because he can never be consistent. I can’t understand how people don’t see that. People just expect to get extended and paid big money to do worse?? That’s nuts. Soft a** country it’s turning into if we’re headed towards a time where it’s okay to rob a company / franchise of its money. I can’t wait to get a raise at my job just so I can be mediocre or worse.. cause I’m getting paid right? Who cares? 

[JonStark]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

Couple of things here, I agree with most of what youre saying, but;

Why do people keep pretending that the Dolphins was a game we absolutely should have won? I mean I think we should have, and if Goff has just a bad game not a horrible one we probably still win, but that Defense is one of the best in the league. They are probably going to have Double Digit Wins, and should be a playoff team (or possibly one of the best records ever not to make it)

And anyone who thought those Niner games were anything other than Coin Flips is just not paying attention to how these two teams have fought over the last 7-8 years. The one game they were depleted, so you could argue we should have expected to win, but not both. Unless you are at the Chiefs level, you should not just expect you will win every game. Even the Packers & Bills (the next tier of teams) have struggles.

But Im also not sure how you blame an entire teams overconfidence (your final comment) on Goff? Thats a 100% Coaching thing.

It's a leadership thing. The majority of that falls on Mcvay but as the QB, Goff also has to be able to rally his team. Teammates have spoke out on the past about how good of a leader is so I don't want to make it seem like he's horrible at it, but it's Mcvay and Goff's team. They need to be the ones to rally the troops. 

As for the games, you're right about the Dolphins. I think I included them because at the time I thought it should've been a cake win, but looking back now it doesn't seem as bad. There is no excuse for the game against the depleted 49ers though. Yes, they are always tough games, but they were down way too many key pieces for that performance we put out. 

[StLunatic88]

11 minutes ago, MDY10 said:

He was extended for a reason. Period. It’s crazy. If you’re at a job and get a raise, will you do worse? Or do better for more money? If a below average QB doesn’t do anything and stays below average.. he will not get that same money. He will not be the highest paid at signing. If you want to ignore everything I said because I said that a guy should keep performing well or better because he got extended to do JUST THAT.. then I will never argue with you again. Talk about everything else I said. When Goff got paid, they expected this really young guy who showed he can really be great at times. He could make any throw. They thought this guy would make progress every week/year. But he keeps under performing. He puts up one great game and then absolutely makes us forget about it because he can never be consistent. I can’t understand how people don’t see that. People just expect to get extended and paid big money to do worse?? That’s nuts. Soft a** country it’s turning into if we’re headed towards a time where it’s okay to rob a company / franchise of its money. I can’t wait to get a raise at my job just so I can be mediocre or worse.. cause I’m getting paid right? Who cares? 

You clearly have a whole lot of something going on with this QB pay issue that isnt just tied to Goff. But the fact you are stuck on it (just like I called out before and you denied) clearly colors everything else you say about him. If you cant get over the very first stumbling block of how much a QB gets paid, because thats how the current system in the NFL works, then we cant have a rational conversation about Goff.

I know you and some others will come back with "I dont care what others are getting paid" which is automatic BS because you bring up Goffs money, but look at this list right here; Garoppolo, Rivers, Brady, Roethlisberger, Bres, Stafford, Carr, Smith, Brissett, and Cousins are all responsible for Cap Hits of over $20m this season, and I would argue that not a single one of them is brining that level of value to their team. But for some reason you guys cant get past that as step one.

Edited December 21, 2020 by StLunatic88

[LeotheLion]

Some people talk about Goff's contract as if they are personally paying it. If he was paid $10m/year, yesterday's outcome would still suck just as much for fans. It's a lazy talking point. 

[NYJets4716]

11 hours ago, jrry32 said:

We're on our way to the playoffs. Enjoy the #1 pick and Trevor Law . . . oh, wait. Oopsie. 😂

At least the JEts don't pretend to be good, you guys lost to a team that was literally on the verge of one of the worst teams of all time. That team just destroyed you guys. The Rams are not going anywhere. Goff is a garbage QB who couldn't even tear up a bad defense. 

[jrry32]

5 minutes ago, NYJets4716 said:

At least the JEts don't pretend to be good, you guys lost to a team that was literally on the verge of one of the worst teams of all time. That team just destroyed you guys. The Rams are not going anywhere. Goff is a garbage QB who couldn't even tear up a bad defense. 

We're going to the playoffs. We don't have to pretend to be good. We are good. I'd explain what the playoffs are, but it has been so long since the Jets were there that I doubt you'd understand. The Jets destroyed us? LOL. You needed the refs to bail you out multiple times to keep us from taking the lead. You won by 3. Go back to your forum, little fella.

[MDY10]

6 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

You clearly have a whole lot of something going on with this QB pay issue that isnt just tied to Goff. But the fact you are stuck on it (just like I called out before and you denied) clearly colors everything else you say about him. f you cant get over the very first stumbling block of how much a QB gets paid, because thats how the current system in the NFL works, then we cant have a rational conversation about Goff.

I know you and some others will come back with "I dont care what others are getting paid" which is automatic BS because you being up Goffs money, but look at this list right here; Garoppolo, Rivers, Brady, Roetlisberger, Bres, Stafford, Carr, Smith, Brissett, and Cousins are all responsible for Cap Hits of over $20m this season, and I would argue that not a single one of them is brining that level of value to their team. But for some reason you guys cant get pat that as step one.

Lol bro you’re a fool if you really think that I have this big thing against Goff. Pay attention to what I say. I absolutely love Goff when he’s playing even decent because that’s all we need. Right now you’re just showing that you’re too sensitive and soft to handle any criticism on Goff. Sure it’s how the QBs get paid. I get that. He was showing promise and got paid. He got paid more than the last guy who was paid because that’s how it works.. but if you were trusted enough to currently be paid that much then you must perform. How many of those guys you listed will get big contracts after this? Jimmy G won’t get signed by the niners again. He didn’t prove to be worth what he was paid. Big Ben has played well. Brady at least has the history and record to say he’s worth taking a shot on based off of experience alone. Cousins got paid and he’s been iffy but sometimes great.  Is he a guaranteed to be signed again?? Stafford is probably not getting signed again. He’s delivered on very bad teams. An excuse Goff has never had aside his rookie year. I can keep going. The pay scale is just how it is. Like Mack getting more than AD just cause he signed after. That isn’t the problem. When your salary becomes a cap issue, it’s because you’re not doing enough to prove that it’s worth it. Does that make you Feel better? I don’t know how else to put it. Salary cap is an important part of the game. I don’t mention the salary of Goff just because I’m jealous he makes millions or think it’s unfair he got it in the first place. He took the money.. and didn’t make progress. 
 

I’ll say it one more time for the people in the back. Jared Goff can make any throw. He can light up any team. He can lead this team to a Super Bowl.. if he plays well. But he hasn’t. He is so damn inconsistent. He is almost guaranteed a turnover a game. ONCE AGAIN.. this game wasn’t entirely on Him. Many things went wrong. But where is our leader? Why is our QB not pulling this team out of slumps and holes when he is needed to like true great QBs do?? At the end of the day.. he got paid. He deserved it based off of his promise alone. But he hasn’t done anything with that promise he showed. He just keeps showing that he’s just another dude. Which is where the contract comes in. Already got paid so now it’s if he is living up to it. Yes? Then great who cares. Money/investment well spent. No? Then it’s time to fix it if he doesn’t start to improve. Goff is the glaring weakness. Absolutely glaring. Teams don’t even respect him. I think he truly has the potential to be great. But unlike everyone else I’m not buying into the potential until I see it start to be consistent on the field. I see nothing wrong with that. 
 

now go ahead and tell me something stupid like Mcvay didn’t motivate them enough... I’m not throwing jabs at you. I normally respect what you say and agree more often than not. But to not answer an argument because you disagree with one aspect of mine is childish. People are too sensitive on this topic and I get it. I love our QB. He’s a great dude. He’s young. He’s not a diva. But he isn’t there yet as a respectable up and coming QB. Rookies and second year players are starting to show more promise than him right now. Teams can’t be waiting years for one guy to finally grasp an offense and stop turning it over. Not when they’re taking up so much damn cap that could be going somewhere like backers. Oline. Future picks for depth.. etc. 

[MDY10]

Just now, jrry32 said:

We're going to the playoffs. We don't have to pretend to be good. We are good. I'd explain what the playoffs are, but it has been so long since the Jets were there that I doubt you'd understand. The Jets destroyed us? LOL. You needed the refs to bail you out multiple times to keep us from taking the lead. You won by 3. Go back to your forum, little fella.

I never would have talked trash after winning one game back 10 years ago lmao just shows what kind of dude this guy would be if they were even average. Fans like this suck.

[NYJets4716]

4 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

We're going to the playoffs. We don't have to pretend to be good. We are good. I'd explain what the playoffs are, but it has been so long since the Jets were there that I doubt you'd understand. The Jets destroyed us? LOL. You needed the refs to bail you out multiple times to keep us from taking the lead. You won by 3. Go back to your forum, little fella.

Go to the playoffs and lose lol, the Seahawks beat us 40-3. You guys lost to a trash team, not really selling on the fact you are good. SB winning teams don't lose to 0-13 teams. 

[MDY10]

1 minute ago, NYJets4716 said:

Go to the playoffs and lose lol, the Seahawks beat us 40-3. You guys lost to a trash team, not really selling on the fact you are good. SB winning teams don't lose to 0-13 teams. 

Oh word cause the rams destroyed a super bowl winning Broncos team when the rams were the doormat of the nfl..(Jets now). Shut up and get out of here. You’re clearly a troll that knows absolutely nothing about football aside what you learned on madden. Can’t believe you’re bragging about losing by 40 Lmaoooooooo idiot. 

[StLunatic88]

58 minutes ago, MDY10 said:

I’m not throwing jabs at you. I normally respect what you say and agree more often than not. But to not answer an argument because you disagree with one aspect of mine is childish.

Dude I’m not trying to throw jabs at you either. You haven’t seen me say this wasn’t his fault, or things like that. But you just happened to be the most recent guy to jump on the $$$ thing. Which just doesn’t pass the test anymore with how the NFL works. I also never said you didn’t have a point, just when you put that in there, it hurts the rest of your argument, because while you may have the golden egg of points, you tarnish it with throwing in that one. 

Goff is the touchiest topic we’ve had here since Bradford (seems to be a common denominator) but watching an entire team sleep walk through the first half, joking around and not taking it seriously on the sidelines when we are down 3 scores to a winless team, is in no way on one single player. That is on a coach and his staff. No other teams fans would try to say that right now. Why aren’t we saying this is on Donald? Or Ramsey? The other giant $$ guys? 

[El Ramster]

Im

still 

LOLing. Just bet 700$ on the rams beating Seattle as dogs. Let’s go. take the 2pts.

take Goff over 260+

Edited December 21, 2020 by El Ramster