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PFT: Should Gruden be getting more heat?


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31 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

Does anyone actually believe a Jon Gruden led organization can win in the NFL? If not the 100 million plus man gotta go

I mean we kinda gotta stick with him. There’s no way they buy him out for like 70 million or whatever 

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6 minutes ago, Blazer026 said:

I mean we kinda gotta stick with him. There’s no way they buy him out for like 70 million or whatever 

He said when he was hired if he fails he won't take the Raiders money. I dunno if he is serious about that or if it was an actual comment like its a 5 year deal and then a 5 year option or something if there is playoff success or something. I definitely remember him saying that though.

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4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Exactly. Needs to set ego aside and be the head coach. Hire a true OC to play call. Hire a stud DC and let him build a staff. 

Gruden needs to focus on his strengths as a motivator and leader. Game plan and put his input into the offense, but turn it loose to a play caller. Again, see Andy Reid. 2017, Chiefs had a 5 game losing streak, he passed play calling off to Nagy and now Bieniemy. He facilitates it, he's the hero in KC and beloved. Gruden needs to follow that lead.

This is spot on. No need to have a yes man like Olson as the OC. I think taking a CEO type role as HC would suit Gruden’s strengths, too, but not sure he’ll ever be willing to give up calling the plays. 
 

 

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We're getting exactly what I expected when we brought him back: mediocrity. Never saw the logic in giving 10 years $100m to a career average coach who lives off of two good seasons during the Clinton administration and a Super Bowl win with Dungy's team.

Gruden isn't terrible but we're no better off than we were with del Rio. Which is sad because I think this team can make some noise with better defense, no joke.

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1 hour ago, Trojan said:

He said when he was hired if he fails he won't take the Raiders money. I dunno if he is serious about that or if it was an actual comment like its a 5 year deal and then a 5 year option or something if there is playoff success or something. I definitely remember him saying that though.

I remember him saying that too. I wonder what he considers failing though 

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Gruden has rebuilt the offense in his image, and overall you can tell Carr has developed a comfot level with the system. My real concern is the disintegration of the run game. Jacobs still looks fine, but the OL hasn't been able to move people like they did last year, and it's not just what's happening at RT. 

Schematically, the offense is fine. I think in the big picture, we've seen pretty good playcalling overall. The one beef I have with the playcalling is Gruden leaning on the spider 2y banana concept as a crutch way too often. Teams have picked up on this tendency and Ingold has not been open a single time on this concept for months now. Teams cover it up and then it all has to be improvised. We saw it on that stupid 3rd and goal play against the Chargers. We even saw it earlier in the game, but Mariota was able to improvise, move to his left, and find Waller. But Gruden has used and abused that play to death and it has resulted in wasted downs at least once or twice per game. But overall, we've seen pretty good playcalling imo.

Where Gruden/Mayock deserve criticism is... everywhere else. Subpar coordinators, subpar position coaches, and subpar players. It's too much of Gruden getting "his guys" instead of the better guys.

Coordinators: Admitedly Guenther did not seem like a bad hire at the time, but he has failed, and there has to be accountability for trustingh im this long. We know what Olsen is, subpar. Carr's career took off when Olsen left and Musgrave came in. Admittedly, this hiring is less consequential as he's basically Gruden's assistant, and overall I think our offense has held up schematically.

Coaches... We saw this with Marinelli replacing Buckner. Why did Buckner have to go? If anything, the DL overachieved last year. Now our line has gone anemic, and the Cardinals have gotten more juice out of their guys.

Players... Witten getting so many snaps over Moreau continues to blow my mind. Subpar blocking, and Moreau is a more explosive receiving option. The whole Maliek Collins thing... he was an average-ish player with Dallas, and Gruden somehow pinned his hopes on him becoming our Aaron Donald. The failed experiment that is Joyner. It's still very early obviously, but the Ruggs pick was questionable on a team that needed a true #1 receiver, and at this point in the NFL he has been a one trick pony, as opposed to that more complete player he was supposed to be. Have we really seen him win on any routes that werent 30+ yards down the field? And where is the YAC? He doesnt appear to have any suddenness or twitchiness that makes Tyreek Hill what he is. Ruggs has been very underwhelming when they try getting him involved on end-arounds or shallow crosses. No wiggle, just runs toward the sideline and gets forced out.

Hopefully we land Wade Phillips and he gets a lot of say over defensive personnel. I trust his judgment more than Gruden's on that end. Offensively... think we have to bring the gang back (including Agholor) and hope Edwards/Ruggs get better. 

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Gruden is who he is. He's not won a playoff game since he won the Superbowl. He's more name that game with years of building hype in the booth. 

The thing I don't get, it was said he'd studied all these modern NFL offenses in his time away. He had incite to the best of the best coaches, etc. And he comes out running a goal line formation with 3 TEs in a game winning situation? As @Turnobili alluded to, he's still calling plays right off his play sheet from the 1990's! It's absurd. 

That OT goal to go offense was the worst offensive sequence I can remember seeing in recent memory. From formation to execution.

Then you factor in, after 10 years off he has complete control (on a Belichick level mind you) to build the team. His hand picked DC was Paul Guenther? His OC... Greg Olson? This is who he waited 10 years to put on staff?

Bottom line, I expect more from a 10 million a year coach. He's being paid too much (right or wrong) to have such feeble results. His offense has it's moments, but his stale use of out dated concepts and use of outdated players (Witten) is mind numbing. 

Would another team hire this guy tomorrow to coach their team? Highly doubt it right now. It has been a complete and total failure as far as most are concerned.

 

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44 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Gruden is who he is. He's not won a playoff game since he won the Superbowl. He's more name that game with years of building hype in the booth. 

The thing I don't get, it was said he'd studied all these modern NFL offenses in his time away. He had incite to the best of the best coaches, etc. And he comes out running a goal line formation with 3 TEs in a game winning situation? As @Turnobili alluded to, he's still calling plays right off his play sheet from the 1990's! It's absurd. 

That OT goal to go offense was the worst offensive sequence I can remember seeing in recent memory. From formation to execution.

Then you factor in, after 10 years off he has complete control (on a Belichick level mind you) to build the team. His hand picked DC was Paul Guenther? His OC... Greg Olson? This is who he waited 10 years to put on staff?

Bottom line, I expect more from a 10 million a year coach. He's being paid too much (right or wrong) to have such feeble results. His offense has it's moments, but his stale use of out dated concepts and use of outdated players (Witten) is mind numbing. 

Would another team hire this guy tomorrow to coach their team? Highly doubt it right now. It has been a complete and total failure as far as most are concerned.

 

Dam this why I like When Big P is around I wouldn’t be able to articulate this. Full disclosure I was saying gruden was proving he wasn’t a dinosaur but this stretch of games...... man not good 

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