as of now who is your pick at 19

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

This is why I would likely be looking to trade down. There is a lot of pretty comparable talent available in that range at our positions of need (OT, MLB, WR, FS), and I’d rather drop back 10 spots or so, pick up another pick, and get a similar player to 19. Also, if they’re going to insist on taking a third-tier QB like Trask or Jones, it would be much more tolerable with an extra 2nd rounder to help outfit them with the elite supporting cast they’ll need.

It’s kinda hard to project who will still be there at a later pick like 19, especially this early in the process. But if we’re stuck at 19, of the guys I’m frequently seeing there at that pick in media mock drafts, I’d probably go with one of the second-tier OTs, either Darrisaw or Leatherwood or Cosmi. 

For me with a trade down, it depends on who's on the board for us to take with our natural pick and also who's still on the board for when we trade down. If we think we can trade down 5-10 spots and still be able to get a few of the players we covet, then I'm all for it but I wouldn't trade down and pass on DeVonta Smith or Kyle Pitts for example if they are available for us when we pick.

[ripsean21]

5 hours ago, turtle28 said:

If we are picking 19th, my hope is that one of the receivers fall - D. Smith or Waddle - if they don’t fall, I want Dylan Moses, Leatherwood or Paris Ford.

I’m not interested in Lance. He’s too raw for me, I think he needs years of development and I just don’t think it’s going to work out for him here. If we’re taking a QB I’d be much more interested in taking Kyle Trask. Yes, the ceiling isn’t as high but we haven’t had much luck with high ceiling QBs since Heath Shuler.
 

I don’t trust this offensive staff to develop Lance into what we’d want him to be/expect him to be which again, I fell will take years.

I would take Zaven Collins over Moses. Bigger I think faster and no ACL

[ripsean21]

4 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Oh cool, definitely sounds like he’s worthy of a top 20 pick and I did read an article from NBC Sports about him being a riser. 

He’s a beast!!! Huge athletic and if he was on a winner yeah that guy is def that dude!!!

[ripsean21]

3 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

I want Davonta Smith if he's available but I think getting Lance and sitting him for a year or two would be good value at that pick (depending upon who else is still available).

Because while I share @turtle28 's assessment of him being raw, I'm gonna side with you on this issue for one reason.

Josh Allen.

You and I were beating the drum about this guy when he was in college (you actually clued me in to him and I started paying attention and loving the guy). So maybe us beating the drum for Lance the same way and him falling to us, can give us the same results.

I love Lance!!! For the same things I knock Fields for I’m sure but he just seems like the perfect player to add to a backfield with Gibson. You add that threat to run and his size with Gibson and His size that’s not a backfield you want to see late in the season. But we would have to get some more weapons outside because he’s going to need to grow as a passer. You have to have capable guys outside he trust to make plays. I don’t like guys going head up on backers and safties. When Allen was struggling those 3 games he hurt his non throwing shoulder and wasn’t throwing with his normal throwing motion. These guys have to realize week five on second down isn’t the time to take a huge hit so there’s  bigger risk with a 50-50 runner

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

Yes, but we can't think that every guy who's got natural talent is going to develop after a few years like Josh Allen did, but I will give you that it's definitely possible and although Wentz has had a rough year this year bc he's not making the easy throws or running for first downs when he can, Wentz also developed into an MVP candidate a few years ago and he too was naturally talented but raw when the Eagles drafted him. 

I guess I just hate to see another first round pick go to waste waiting years for a guy to develop, but I shouldn't look at it that way. Having a QB sit, learn and develop behind Alex for a year or two and then that QB ending up developing into a top 10 QB would be worth the wait.  I am leery of that process though, especially given Washington's history with failing to draft first round QBs going back to Heath Shuler.

Completely reasonable Turtle. And I'm not faulting you or arguing otherwise.

I'm a baseball player more than anything else and we are a superstitious lot. So my post was more about generating good juju if we drafted Lance

[turtle28]

21 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

I would take Zaven Collins over Moses. Bigger I think faster and no ACL

Who is Zaven Collins? Never mind, I figured it out. I’ll have to look him up more but I like the little I read and saw of him in some highlights. 
 

I think if we drafted him he’d be more of a SLB though rather than a MLB. He seems perfect for that SLB role. Maybe then Holcomb moves to MLB w/ Landon Collins at WLB. That’d be a solid LB corps.

Edited December 19, 2020 by turtle28

[ripsean21]

9 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Who is Zaven Collins?

Tulsa LB 23. YouTube that animal!!!! Dude watch Tulsa man he is that dude!!!

i don’t always suggest watching Tulsa. But if I didn’t tell you who he was you would figure it out before the 1st 1/4 ends

Tulsa has the defense to beat Cincinatti. They have DT’s that are 3rd and 4th rounders and can play 3-4 or 4-3. That defense is a treat

Edited December 19, 2020 by ripsean21

[turtle28]

Just now, ripsean21 said:

Tulsa LB 23. YouTube that animal!!!! Dude watch Tulsa man he is that dude!!!

Yeah, I looked him up. I liked what I saw so far. I think he’s a SLB, then Holcomb to MLB & Collins to WLB. I think that’d be a solid young LB corps.

[ripsean21]

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

Yeah, I looked him up. I liked what I saw so far. I think he’s a SLB, then Holcomb to MLB & Collins to WLB. I think that’d be a solid young LB corps.

Oh we are def on the same page with that Corp. especially you can keep KPL and rotate him between the Collins outside backers I think that’s a unit.

[e16bball]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

For me with a trade down, it depends on who's on the board for us to take with our natural pick and also who's still on the board for when we trade down. If we think we can trade down 5-10 spots and still be able to get a few of the players we covet, then I'm all for it but I wouldn't trade down and pass on DeVonta Smith or Kyle Pitts for example if they are available for us when we pick.

Well yeah, if Pitts or Smith was still on the board, I’d absolutely pull the trigger. But I think those guys both go top 10, so I think that’s a longshot. If either of them made it to 14 or 15, I’d actually be on the phone looking to trade up, which is somewhat uncommon for me. But I think even that is extremely unlikely. I also don’t expect Waddle to make it to 19, and while I like him, I wouldn’t trade up for him. 

As of this moment, I think we’re looking at some combination of the following guys at need positions:

QB: Kyle Trask, Mac Jones

WR: Rashod Bateman, Rondale Moore, Terrace Marshall (on some lists)

LB: Jeremiah Owusu-Koromoah, Dylan Moses, Nick Bolton, Zaven Collins

FS: Trevon Moehrig, Jevon Holland

OT: Christian Darrisaw, Samuel Cosmi, Alex Leatnerwood, Rashawn Slater

IOL: Wyatt Davis, Alijah Vera-Tucker, Trey Smith

To me, there’s not a “can’t miss” guy on that list. I’d be happy to add any of them (except for the QBs), but I’m not dying to land any particular one of those guys. I’d happily move back 10 picks, have 6 or 8 of those guys left, and get another shot at a good starter for our trouble. 

[ripsean21]

5 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Well yeah, if Pitts or Smith was still on the board, I’d absolutely pull the trigger. But I think those guys both go top 10, so I think that’s a longshot. If either of them made it to 14 or 15, I’d actually be on the phone looking to trade up, which is somewhat uncommon for me. But I think even that is extremely unlikely. I also don’t expect Waddle to make it to 19, and while I like him, I wouldn’t trade up for him. 

As of this moment, I think we’re looking at some combination of the following guys at need positions:

QB: Kyle Trask, Mac Jones

WR: Rashod Bateman, Rondale Moore, Terrace Marshall (on some lists)

LB: Jeremiah Owusu-Koromoah, Dylan Moses, Nick Bolton, Zaven Collins

FS: Trevon Moehrig, Jevon Holland

OT: Christian Darrisaw, Samuel Cosmi, Alex Leatnerwood, Rashawn Slater

IOL: Wyatt Davis, Alijah Vera-Tucker, Trey Smith

To me, there’s not a “can’t miss” guy on that list. I’d be happy to add any of them (except for the QBs), but I’m not dying to land any particular one of those guys. I’d happily move back 10 picks, have 6 or 8 of those guys left, and get another shot at a good starter for our trouble. 

I mean players outside of the top 10 aren’t usually can’t miss. Gotta find out if their coachable is generally the first thing for players thats aren’t those sure fire talents. Generally the hard worker trait sticks out to me with most the guys you mentioned. A few of those guys do have super athletic ability so if your grade is close between the athlete or worker you have to look at the state of your roster. Do you need a chance for more top end talent by year 3 or do you need a steady eddy plugged in and at the worse their a contributer. 

[turtle28]

19 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Well yeah, if Pitts or Smith was still on the board, I’d absolutely pull the trigger. But I think those guys both go top 10, so I think that’s a longshot. If either of them made it to 14 or 15, I’d actually be on the phone looking to trade up, which is somewhat uncommon for me. But I think even that is extremely unlikely. I also don’t expect Waddle to make it to 19, and while I like him, I wouldn’t trade up for him. 

As of this moment, I think we’re looking at some combination of the following guys at need positions:

QB: Kyle Trask, Mac Jones

WR: Rashod Bateman, Rondale Moore, Terrace Marshall (on some lists)

LB: Jeremiah Owusu-Koromoah, Dylan Moses, Nick Bolton, Zaven Collins

FS: Trevon Moehrig, Jevon Holland

OT: Christian Darrisaw, Samuel Cosmi, Alex Leatnerwood, Rashawn Slater

IOL: Wyatt Davis, Alijah Vera-Tucker, Trey Smith

To me, there’s not a “can’t miss” guy on that list. I’d be happy to add any of them (except for the QBs), but I’m not dying to land any particular one of those guys. I’d happily move back 10 picks, have 6 or 8 of those guys left, and get another shot at a good starter for our trouble. 

Well I certainly agree with that. Parris Ford, FS from Pitt too?

[PARROTHEAD]

Hate having to go there for a player. But VTs Caleb Farley is likely topping my board at 19.

If hes gone. Kyle Pitts or Owusu-Koramoah.

[ARTMONK HOF]

3 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

I would take Zaven Collins over Moses. Bigger I think faster and no ACL

Moses had 2 big injuries. Besides the ACL, he also just had a broken foot. That’s definitely worrisome. 

[turtle28]

4 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Hate having to go there for a player. But VTs Caleb Farley is likely topping my board at 19.

If hes gone. Kyle Pitts or Owusu-Koramoah.

Who knows what will happen with a lot of these prospects in the next 4-5 months but as of right now I think Farley goes top 10 but, that certainly could change by the time the draft rolls around after the combine, pro days & private workouts.

If Pitts is there it’s a no brainer.