Uncle Buck Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: By the logic that Moss is using in regards to Rice having two HOF quarterbacks to work with, it becomes a victim of circumstance argument one can pull out of their pocket when it's to their benefit. Any receiver ever can say they didn't have this QB or that QB, and if they had, they would have had better career numbers. And then where do you draw the line? It's unknown to what degree Rice would have benefited if he played on another team with a revolving door of quarterbacks. But that isn't something Rice could control. Also, Moss talks about changing the game, but that was happening way before he played. Moss played in an era where a corner couldn't thrash him all over the field like one could when Lance Alworth played. So that does diminish Moss' accomplishments? Moss of course is entitled to his opinion, but the logic he's trying to wrap it around doesn't really make sense. Moss went to two different teams and made them both the highest scoring offenses of all time. He absolutely did change things. Adding a rookie Randy Moss took a 9-7 team the year before he was drafted and made them a 15-1 team. Adding him to a team with a great quarterback made them a 16-0 team in the regular season and one defensive stop in the Super Bowl from going 19-0. People can look at stats all they want, but one thing the numbers don't show is how much easier Randy made it for the other players on his offense to succeed. When you have a player as dangerous as Moss to worry about, you HAVE to devote defensive assets to stop him, and that opened things up big time for other players to a degree that I've never seen before. Edited December 20, 2020 by Uncle Buck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 11 hours ago, notthatbluestuff said: Rice's prime was 25 years ago, which means posters here don't know or care about it. No, what it means is a bunch of people who never watched him and have no business talking about him are going to list stats and narratives they've heard over a few years. My opinion as someone who caught the back half of Steve Young era Rice, he's probably the GOAT for what he accomplished, but I have no issues with people saying that TO or Moss were as good or slightly better overall talents (the same way alot of people on here like to say that Brady's the GOAT but someone like Rodgers or Manning is the "best" (even though that is flagarantly wrong). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 4 hours ago, sammymvpknight said: Rice was also unstoppable...but he was motivated...and did it for about 20 years He wasn't like Moss. And to say he did it for 20 years, he did it for 10 years. He was good-very good for 10 years after that. It's kind of like watching Adrian Peterson playing in 2020. Sure, he is accumulating career stats, but it's not like he is the 2012 version of himself at the age of 35. Emmitt Smith played for a long time and rushed for more yards than anyone in history. Was he the GOAT at his position? Not in my book. Look at the first 9-10 years of the careers of Randy Moss and Jerry Rice and you will see that the numbers were fairly close. Then remember who their coaches and quarterbacks were too. Maybe it comes down to how a person defines what constitutes "greatness." For some people, they just look at career stats. I don't do it that way. The way I do it is I think about it like we are starting a playground game and I'm the captain. Who would I pick for my team first if they were both available? The BEST player. That's how I look at things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said: He wasn't like Moss. And to say he did it for 20 years, he did it for 10 years. He was good-very good for 10 years after that. It's kind of like watching Adrian Peterson playing in 2020. Sure, he is accumulating career stats, but it's not like he is the 2012 version of himself at the age of 35. Emmitt Smith played for a long time and rushed for more yards than anyone in history. Was he the GOAT at his position? Not in my book. Look at the first 9-10 years of the careers of Randy Moss and Jerry Rice and you will see that the numbers were fairly close. Then remember who their coaches and quarterbacks were too. Maybe it comes down to how a person defines what constitutes "greatness." For some people, they just look at career stats. I don't do it that way. The way I do it is I think about it like we are starting a playground game and I'm the captain. Who would I pick for my team first if they were both available? The BEST player. That's how I look at things. You also have to consider the era they played in. What he did was still mind boggling. His peak was every not as good as Moss’s, but he did it when DBs had free reign on targeting WRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 9 hours ago, Ty21 said: Can you imagine if Randy Moss had stickum Funny line, but Moss didn't need it. He seldom dropped passes anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 1 minute ago, sammymvpknight said: You also have to consider the era they played in. What he did was still mind boggling. His peak was every not as good as Moss’s, but he did it when DBs had free reign on targeting WRs. To a degree. I do think that is overstated. There was more contact back then, but it's not like DBs could be draped across the back of receivers all the way down the field back in those days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 34 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said: Funny line, but Moss didn't need it. He seldom dropped passes anyway. Yeah that was solely a dig at Jerry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramxel Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Don't know why TO is in the conversation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lod01 Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, kramxel said: Don't know why TO is in the conversation. Moss put him in it and "2nd" simply because he knows Rice owns him as far as the greatest ever. Rice was not the greatest specimen. Neither was Moss or TO. It was Calvin Johnson, whose career was wasted with a hack like Stafford and horrible coaches. DK making a run at that himself. Rice was simply the best prepared ever and the hardest worker ever at WR. Put Moss with Stafford and ya got less than Calvin Johnson because Stafford always put CJ in a position to take a beating. Moss would have ended up on IR in numerous seasons in DET. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 5 hours ago, Uncle Buck said: Moss went to two different teams and made them both the highest scoring offenses of all time. He absolutely did change things. Adding a rookie Randy Moss took a 9-7 team the year before he was drafted and made them a 15-1 team. Adding him to a team with a great quarterback made them a 16-0 team in the regular season and one defensive stop in the Super Bowl from going 19-0. People can look at stats all they want, but one thing the numbers don't show is how much easier Randy made it for the other players on his offense to succeed. When you have a player as dangerous as Moss to worry about, you HAVE to devote defensive assets to stop him, and that opened things up big time for other players to a degree that I've never seen before. Didn't say Moss didn't change anything. I'm saying that the evolution of the position happened before he made his impact. Moss was just another chapter to a bigger story. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub_City30 Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 15 hours ago, Bearerofnews said: Calvin for me was the GOAT. As great as he was I have Rice, Moss, TO, Megatron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Bad take from Moss because I don't care what anyone says, Rice is the best NFL PLAYER of all time and the same cannot be said about Moss. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 7 hours ago, Uncle Buck said: I think Moss was just being nice to TO. There are very few people who would (or should) take TO over Jerry Rice. IMHO, it should be: 1) Moss 2) Rice 3) Owens 4) Fitzgerald 5) Megatron Moss peak wasn't close to jerrys peak from a raw numbers stand point. Jerry is the undisputed top receiver of all time. Moss may have been more talented, but who cares. There have been a bunch of guys that have been sexier athletes at wr than rice, but none, come close to his body of work. Jerry has more touchdowns, yards, catches, superbowls, superbowl appearances, a better record in the playoffs. Moss was average in his mid 30s Jerry was still good at 40. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeydudemanG Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 18 hours ago, ET80 said: Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. It's why Rice was the GOAT. Wow you think Moss didn't work hard because he makes it look easy? You better never ket him hear you say that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Rice is the GOAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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