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Kevin King relative to other #2 CB


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Wanted to put forth a more dedicated place to discuss impending FA Kevin King.     Below is a collection of stats pulled from pro football reference for the current year.  I went through and looked at the top 3 CB for each team in terms of targets, then crossed checked that ---ROUGHLY-- with depth charts to assign a 1, 2 or 3 in terms of their CB for respective teams.   There certainly will be some errors as I am not up on which CB is truly the #1 or #2 CB for their teams and targets is an opportunity stat and can be skewed for sure.  I did not post the full stat line to keep things shorter on the page.  

Important columns highlighted in green

CB# = what I assigned as the teams CB1, 2 or 3.  Argue those all you want.  
Tgt = number of times targeted in coverage
Rat = QB passer rating against.  

 

Rk Player CB# Tm Age Pos G GS Int Tgt Cmp Cmp% Yds Yds/Cmp Yds/Tgt TD Rat
121 Patrick Peterson 1 ARI 30 CB 13 13 3 68 47 69.10% 595 12.7 8.8 4 97.4
60 AJ Terrell 1 ATL 22 CB 11 11 1 77 55 71.40% 673 12.2 8.7 5 114.3
30 Marlon Humphrey 1 BAL 24 CB 12 12 1 77 50 64.90% 463 9.3 6 1 80.2
136 Tre'Davious White 1 BUF 25 CB 12 12 3 57 33 57.90% 419 12.7 7.4 4 82.4
437 Donte Jackson 1 CAR 25 CB 11 10 3 47 30 63.80% 371 12.4 7.9 3 82.8
105 Kyle Fuller 1 CHI 28 CB 13 13 1 75 39 52.00% 457 11.7 6.1 3 78.6
174 William Jackson III 1 CIN 28 CB 12 12 1 65 35 53.80% 487 13.9 7.5 4 92.3
188 Denzel Ward 1 CLE 23 CB 10 10 2 66 38 57.60% 390 10.3 5.9 4 82.3
118 Trevon Diggs 1 DAL 22 cb 9 9 2 66 37 56.10% 565 15.3 8.6 4 92
127 Michael Ojemudia 1 DEN 23 cb 13 8 0 74 44 59.50% 628 14.3 8.5 3 100.5
162 Amani Oruwariye 1 DET 24 CB 13 12 1 72 41 56.90% 702 17.1 9.8 3 98.3
165 Jaire Alexander 1 GNB 23 CB 12 12 1 66 36 54.50% 340 9.4 5.2 2 72.8
99 Vernon Hargreaves III 1 HOU 25 CB 13 13 1 84 53 63.10% 709 13.4 8.4 4 100.7
171 Rock Ya-Sin 1 IND 24 cb 11 6 1 56 39 69.60% 508 13 9.1 1 96.4
48 Tre Herndon 1 JAX 24 cb 13 9 0 64 46 71.90% 569 12.4 8.9 4 119.9
210 Charvarius Ward 1 KAN 24 CB 12 11 0 48 28 58.30% 353 12.6 7.4 4 109.1
205 Casey Hayward 1 LAC 31 CB 12 11 0 69 34 49.30% 576 16.9 8.3 5 102.1
214 Jalen Ramsey 1 LAR 26 CB 12 12 1 57 29 50.90% 273 9.4 4.8 2 68.8
108 Trayvon Mullen 1 LVR 23 CB 13 13 2 65 39 60.00% 464 11.9 7.1 5 94.6
194 Xavien Howard 1 MIA 27 CB 13 13 9 83 39 47.00% 550 14.1 6.6 4 45.3
203 Cameron Dantzler 1 MIN 22 cb 9 8 1 62 38 61.30% 441 11.6 7.1 4 97.6
113 Marshon Lattimore 1 NOR 24 CB 11 11 1 64 37 57.80% 542 14.6 8.5 5 105.1
223 Stephon Gilmore 1 NWE 30 CB 10 10 1 48 27 56.30% 318 11.8 6.6 1 74.8
130 James Bradberry 1 NYG 27 CB 13 13 3 80 48 60.00% 543 11.3 6.8 3 77.2
117 Blessuan Austin 1 NYJ 24 cb 9 8 0 60 40 66.70% 401 10 6.7 2 96.6
68 Darius Slay 1 PHI 29 CB 13 12 0 84 64 76.20% 793 12.4 9.4 3 116.8
119 Joe Haden 1 PIT 31 CB 12 12 2 71 34 47.90% 452 13.3 6.4 2 66.2
145 Tre Flowers 1 SEA 25 cb 11 7 0 71 55 77.50% 593 10.8 8.4 1 106.1
157 Jason Verrett 1 SFO 29 CB 11 11 2 56 39 69.60% 389 10 6.9 1 80.1
93 Carlton Davis 1 TAM 24 CB 13 13 4 99 60 60.60% 784 13.1 7.9 5 85.6
11 Malcolm Butler 1 TEN 30 CB 13 13 3 97 60 61.90% 615 10.3 6.3 3 77.5
241 Kendall Fuller 1 WAS 25 CB 11 11 4 65 42 64.60% 497 11.8 7.6 6 92.9
179 Byron Murphy 2 ARI 22 cb 12 6 0 64 41 64.10% 442 10.8 6.9 1 89.5
128 Isaiah Oliver 2 ATL 24 cb 13 9 0 77 55 71.40% 644 11.7 8.4 5 118.1
95 Marcus Peters 2 BAL 27 CB 13 13 3 73 50 68.50% 586 11.7 8 3 89.2
24 Taron Johnson 2 BUF 24 cb 13 9 1 73 51 69.90% 536 10.5 7.3 2 94.3
255 Troy Pride Jr. 2 CAR 22 cb 13 7 0 38 26 68.40% 380 14.6 10 2 118.3
167 Jaylon Johnson 2 CHI 21 CB 13 13 0 78 44 56.40% 694 15.8 8.9 5 107.5
198 LeShaun Sims 2 CIN 27 cb 10 9 1 59 49 83.10% 580 11.8 9.8 6 134.5
85 Terrance Mitchell 2 CLE 28 CB 13 13 0 80 49 61.30% 679 13.9 8.5 4 105.2
286 Anthony Brown 2 DAL 27 cb 7 5 0 39 24 61.50% 308 12.8 7.9 3 111.9
151 Bryce Callahan 2 DEN 29 CB 10 10 2 57 31 54.40% 205 6.6 3.6 0 47.8
120 Jeff Okudah 2 DET 21 cb 9 6 1 53 41 77.40% 594 14.5 11.2 2 118
206 Kevin King 2 GNB 25 cb 8 8 0 38 20 52.60% 267 13.4 7 1 84
181 Bradley Roby 2 HOU 28 CB 10 10 1 44 28 63.60% 215 7.7 4.9 3 88.7
316 Xavier Rhodes 2 IND 30 CB 13 13 2 64 30 46.90% 404 13.5 6.3 2 64.8
243 C.J. Henderson 2 JAX 22 cb 8 8 1 51 33 64.70% 443 13.4 8.7 4 110.2
267 Rashad Fenton 2 KAN 23 cb 13 3 1 53 33 62.30% 429 13 8.1 2 92.4
138 Michael Davis 2 LAC 25 CB 13 12 3 78 47 60.30% 503 10.7 6.4 2 71.7
61 Troy Hill 2 LAR 29 CB 13 13 2 77 55 71.40% 561 10.2 7.3 3 94.1
140 Nevin Lawson 2 LVR 29 cb 12 8 0 55 35 63.60% 374 10.7 6.8 5 113.7
327 Byron Jones 2 MIA 28 CB 11 11 1 58 35 60.30% 565 16.1 9.7 3 103
57 Jeff Gladney 2 MIN 24 CB 13 12 0 79 54 68.40% 650 12 8.2 6 118.6
185 Janoris Jenkins 2 NOR 32 CB 10 10 3 55 30 54.50% 392 13.1 7.1 1 60.6
310 J.C. Jackson 2 NWE 25 cb 13 8 7 64 37 57.80% 511 13.8 8 3 59.6
290 Darnay Holmes 2 NYG 22 cb 11 5 1 44 33 75.00% 323 9.8 7.3 0 85.7
170 Brian Poole 2 NYJ 28 cb 9 7 2 39 25 64.10% 257 10.3 6.6 0 61.6
154 Avonte Maddox 2 PHI 24 cb 10 8 0 49 33 67.30% 429 13 8.8 2 108.3
186 Steven Nelson 2 PIT 27 CB 12 12 2 83 48 57.80% 648 13.5 7.8 7 100.9
146 Shaquill Griffin 2 SEA 25 cb 9 9 2 65 41 63.10% 455 11.1 7 6 101.8
178 Emmanuel Moseley 2 SFO 24 cb 9 8 1 53 32 60.40% 411 12.8 7.8 4 102
114 Sean Murphy-Bunting 2 TAM 23 CB 13 10 1 77 60 77.90% 746 12.4 9.7 4 118.9
168 Desmond King 2 TEN 26   12 6 0 41 27 65.90% 234 8.7 5.7 1 88.9
137 Ronald Darby 2 WAS 26 CB 13 13 0 79 44 55.70% 626 14.2 7.9 1 85.7
80 Dre Kirkpatrick 3 ARI 31 cb 12 9 3 83 56 67.50% 573 10.2 6.9 2 80
220 Darqueze Dennard 3 ATL 29 cb 8 6 1 59 37 62.70% 310 8.4 5.3 3 86.1
296 Jimmy Smith 3 BAL 32 cb 11 5 0 35 17 48.60% 114 6.7 3.3 0 56.1
236 Levi Wallace 3 BUF 25 cb 9 9 2 58 34 58.60% 481 14.1 8.3 3 88.4
139 Rasul Douglas 3 CAR 26 cb 11 9 0 80 49 61.30% 620 12.7 7.8 6 110.4
64 Buster Skrine 3 CHI 31 cb 12 3 0 64 50 78.10% 507 10.1 7.9 5 125.7
251 Mackensie Alexander 3 CIN 27 cb 11 8 0 49 35 71.40% 354 10.1 7.2 0 91.7
338 Kevin Johnson 3 CLE 28 cb 11 5 0 35 22 62.90% 234 10.6 6.7 1 91.8
246 Jourdan Lewis 3 DAL 25 CB 12 10 0 59 38 64.40% 303 8 5.1 2 88.5
34 Kareem Jackson 3 DEN 32 CB 13 13 0 39 26 66.70% 215 8.3 5.5 1 89.2
322 Justin Coleman 3 DET 27 cb 8 4 0 35 28 80.00% 291 10.4 8.3 1 110.8
317 Chandon Sullivan 3 GNB 24 cb 13 8 1 41 27 65.90% 355 13.1 8.7 1 91
112 Lonnie Johnson Jr. 3 HOU 25 cb 13 2 0 32 22 68.80% 257 11.7 8 0 92.8
59 Kenny Moore 3 IND 25 CB 13 11 4 74 51 68.90% 611 12 8.3 5 93.9
328 Sidney Jones 3 JAX 24 cb 9 6 2 38 22 57.90% 442 20.1 11.6 3 103.2
239 Bashaud Breeland 3 KAN 28 cb 9 9 2 49 25 51.00% 298 11.9 6.1 3 73.3
416 Chris Harris Jr. 3 LAC 31 cb 6 6 0 25 14 56.00% 259 18.5 10.4 4 131.5
260 Darious Williams 3 LAR 27 cb 13 8 4 61 32 52.50% 391 12.2 6.4 2 56.1
100 Lamarcus Joyner 3 LVR 30 cb 11 4 0 58 39 67.20% 422 10.8 7.3 1 94.2
180 Nik Needham 3 MIA 24 cb 13 4 2 53 35 66.00% 398 11.4 7.5 0 72.7
270 Kris Boyd 3 MIN 24 cb 10 5 0 39 28 71.80% 397 14.2 10.2 2 121.4
520 Patrick Robinson 3 NOR 33 cb 12 4 2 26 16 61.50% 240 15 9.2 1 72.6
79 Jonathan Jones 3 NWE 27 cb 13 6 1 63 39 61.90% 394 10.1 6.3 4 94.3
262 Isaac Yiadom 3 NYG 24 cb 13 8 0 47 30 63.80% 390 13 8.3 4 118.2
405 Arthur Maulet 3 NYJ 27 cb 8 2 1 17 11 64.70% 126 11.5 7.4 1 82
232 Nickell Robey-Coleman 3 PHI 28 cb 13 5 0 43 33 76.70% 335 10.2 7.8 1 106.2
147 Mike Hilton 3 PIT 26 cb 9 6 2 39 28 71.80% 260 9.3 6.7 1 76.9
221 Quinton Dunbar 3 SEA 28 cb 6 6 1 54 35 64.80% 491 14 9.1 4 111
420 Dontae Johnson 3 SFO 29 cb 11 3 0 26 18 69.20% 196 10.9 7.5 1 104
131 Jamel Dean 3 TAM 24 cb 11 5 1 54 31 57.40% 319 10.3 5.9 3 85.3
305 Breon Borders 3 TEN 25 cb 6 5 1 47 24 51.10% 333 13.9 7.1 3 86.6
230 Jimmy Moreland 3 WAS 25 cb 13 4 1 57 38 66.70% 294 7.7 5.2 0 71.8
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My thoughts

 

Kevin King compare rather well against other #2 CB across the league.  His biggest issue is availability.  

Over his career, King has consistently had a very nice QB rating against.  Again, availability being his biggest issue.

 

Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Tgt Cmp Cmp% Yds Yds/Cmp Yds/Tgt TD Rat DADOT Air YAC Bltz Hrry QBKD Sk Prss Comb MTkl MTkl%
2018 23 GNB RCB 20 6 6 1 24 13 54.2% 143 11.0 6.0 3 94.3 12.0 94 49 1 0 0 0.0 0 17 3 15.0%
2019 24 GNB RCB 20 15 14 5 85 50 58.8% 864 17.3 10.2 4 84.6 12.6 594 270 1 0 0 1.0 1 66 14 17.5%
2020 25 GNB cb 20 9 9 0 38 20 52.6% 267 13.4 7.0 1 84.0 11.1 196 71 0 0 0 0.0 0 43 8 15.7%
Edited by squire12
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He's a good player but like you said availability is his biggest issue.

Question is how big of an issue is it? If he plays the rest of this season that's 26 out of 32 regular season games the last 2 years. Imo his body has matured past most of the injuries he had early on like Casey Heyward.

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1 hour ago, squire12 said:

My thoughts

 

Kevin King compare rather well against other #2 CB across the league.  His biggest issue is availability.  

Over his career, King has consistently had a very nice QB rating against.  Again, availability being his biggest issue.

 

Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Tgt Cmp Cmp% Yds Yds/Cmp Yds/Tgt TD Rat DADOT Air YAC Bltz Hrry QBKD Sk Prss Comb MTkl MTkl%
2018 23 GNB RCB 20 6 6 1 24 13 54.2% 143 11.0 6.0 3 94.3 12.0 94 49 1 0 0 0.0 0 17 3 15.0%
2019 24 GNB RCB 20 15 14 5 85 50 58.8% 864 17.3 10.2 4 84.6 12.6 594 270 1 0 0 1.0 1 66 14 17.5%
2020 25 GNB cb 20 9 9 0 38 20 52.6% 267 13.4 7.0 1 84.0 11.1 196 71 0 0 0 0.0 0 43 8 15.7%

Would you rather have King who is available half the time, or Jackson who is available all the time?

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3 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Would you rather have King who is available half the time, or Jackson who is available all the time?

All comes down to the $$.  Both on rookie deals, King hands down.  How big that number jumps in salary for King is the huge question mark.   Jackson has not shown much in terms of coverage ability to warrant being viewed as a replacement for King.    Would love to see more of Hollman and see what he has. @ThatJerkDave is probably on board with that as well!!!

 

Rk Player CB# Tm Age Pos G GS Int Tgt Cmp Cmp% Yds Yds/Cmp Yds/Tgt TD Rat

165 Jaire Alexander 1 GNB 23 CB 12 12 1 66 36 54.50% 340 9.4 5.2 2 72.8
317 Chandon Sullivan 3 GNB 24 cb 13 8 1 41 27 65.90% 355 13.1 8.7 1 91
206 Kevin King 2 GNB 25 cb 8 8 0 38 20 52.60% 267 13.4 7 1 84
325 Josh Jackson   GNB 24 cb 11 5 0 31 23 74.20% 285 12.4 9.2 1 113
608 Ka'dar Hollman   GNB 26 cb 11 1 0 16 7 43.80% 63 9 3.9 0 54.9

 

Josh Jackson career

Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Tgt Cmp Cmp% Yds Yds/Cmp Yds/Tgt TD Rat DADOT Air YAC Bltz Hrry QBKD Sk Prss Comb MTkl MTkl%
2018 22 GNB rcb 37 16 10 0 64 40 62.5% 557 13.9 8.7 3 106.1 9.6 326 231 19 2 0 0.0 2 49 11 18.3%
2019 23 GNB   37 14 0 0 7 6 85.7% 63 10.5 9.0 1 143.7 7.4 52 11 0 0 0 0.0 0 11 1 8.3%
2020 24 GNB cb 37 11 5 0 31 23 74.2% 285 12.4 9.2 1 113.0 9.3 142 143 0 0 0 0.0 0 25 6 19.4%

 

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4 minutes ago, squire12 said:

All comes down to the $$.  Both on rookie deals, King hands down.  How big that number jumps in salary for King is the huge question mark.   Jackson has not shown much in terms of coverage ability to warrant being viewed as a replacement for King.    Would love to see more of Hollman and see what he has. @ThatJerkDave is probably on board with that as well!!!

I would generally tend to agree.  Josh Jackson is the Lucas Patrick of CBs.  You put him in there to keep the boat from sinking, but it's not someone you want to rely on.  Last year, Trae Waynes got 3 years, $42M.  Kendall Fuller got 4 years, $40M.  He's probably going to get somewhere between $10M-$12M IMO.

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6 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I would generally tend to agree.  Josh Jackson is the Lucas Patrick of CBs.  You put him in there to keep the boat from sinking, but it's not someone you want to rely on.  Last year, Trae Waynes got 3 years, $42M.  Kendall Fuller got 4 years, $40M.  He's probably going to get somewhere between $10M-$12M IMO.

I think that is true from a normal year money aspect on the salary cap.   2021 cap is still so unknown that the money league wide just might not be there.

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6 minutes ago, squire12 said:

 

All comes down to the $$.  Both on rookie deals, King hands down.  How big that number jumps in salary for King is the huge question mark.   Jackson has not shown much in terms of coverage ability to warrant being viewed as a replacement for King.    Would love to see more of Hollman and see what he has. @ThatJerkDave is probably on board with that as well!!!

 

Rk Player CB# Tm Age Pos G GS Int Tgt Cmp Cmp% Yds Yds/Cmp Yds/Tgt TD Rat

 

165 Jaire Alexander 1 GNB 23 CB 12 12 1 66 36 54.50% 340 9.4 5.2 2 72.8
317 Chandon Sullivan 3 GNB 24 cb 13 8 1 41 27 65.90% 355 13.1 8.7 1 91
206 Kevin King 2 GNB 25 cb 8 8 0 38 20 52.60% 267 13.4 7 1 84
325 Josh Jackson   GNB 24 cb 11 5 0 31 23 74.20% 285 12.4 9.2 1 113
608 Ka'dar Hollman   GNB 26 cb 11 1 0 16 7 43.80% 63 9 3.9 0 54.9

 

Josh Jackson career

Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Tgt Cmp Cmp% Yds Yds/Cmp Yds/Tgt TD Rat DADOT Air YAC Bltz Hrry QBKD Sk Prss Comb MTkl MTkl%
2018 22 GNB rcb 37 16 10 0 64 40 62.5% 557 13.9 8.7 3 106.1 9.6 326 231 19 2 0 0.0 2 49 11 18.3%
2019 23 GNB   37 14 0 0 7 6 85.7% 63 10.5 9.0 1 143.7 7.4 52 11 0 0 0 0.0 0 11 1 8.3%
2020 24 GNB cb 37 11 5 0 31 23 74.2% 285 12.4 9.2 1 113.0 9.3 142 143 0 0 0 0.0 0 25 6 19.4%

 

I'm certainly no authority.  But I will say that I would have liked to see Hollman a little more this season to see what he is capable of doing.   I think the low rating against is likely due to small sample size more than better play.  I have been a fan of Hollman since we drafted him, I think we could get starter reps out of him, but we haven't seen it properly yet.  It would be very difficult for me to pull the plug on a high end CB like King for an older player with very limited experience.

 

Re-signing King depends on a few factors:

1.  Do we currently have an adequate replacement? I can only answer this with an optimistic maybe.  Perhaps Hollman can maintain his good play over more reps, and perhaps Sullivan can play outside a little more.

2.  What is the cap space? Some say it will be 175 million, others say it will just stay the same.  That has a big effect on what I would do.  If it goes down, we will have to make cuts just to meet the cap.  I don't think it is wise to give King a second contract if that is the case, we will have to jettison even more money.  If it stays the same, we have some room to work with and can likely retain him, if we desire.

3.  What does Kevin King want? Going by annual value #1 is 20 million per season, #10 is 14, #20 is 10, #30 is 7.5.  Is King at 10ish million better than a first rounder at about 2, or Hollman at not quite 1?

4.  Does the structure of this contract prevent us from signing some of our other, more important players? Jaire and Adams are coming sooner rather than later, they will not be cheap.

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2 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I'm certainly no authority.  But I will say that I would have liked to see Hollman a little more this season to see what he is capable of doing.   I think the low rating against is likely due to small sample size more than better play.  I have been a fan of Hollman since we drafted him, I think we could get starter reps out of him, but we haven't seen it properly yet.  It would be very difficult for me to pull the plug on a high end CB like King for an older player with very limited experience.

Yeah, the 16 targets is not enough to go on, but it is at least positive and an optimistic view given his low rating against.

2 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

 

Re-signing King depends on a few factors:

1.  Do we currently have an adequate replacement? I can only answer this with an optimistic maybe.  Perhaps Hollman can maintain his good play over more reps, and perhaps Sullivan can play outside a little more.

Would have been nice to see more of Hollman over Jackson based on the results thus far. 

2 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

2.  What is the cap space? Some say it will be 175 million, others say it will just stay the same.  That has a big effect on what I would do.  If it goes down, we will have to make cuts just to meet the cap.  I don't think it is wise to give King a second contract if that is the case, we will have to jettison even more money.  If it stays the same, we have some room to work with and can likely retain him, if we desire.

agree completely.  I have been seeing some reports/speculation that it could be flat around $195M with some noted borrowing from a 1-2 years ahead.  GB can make some cuts, but in doing so, GB creates some more holes to fill with limited cap space and a finite amount of draft capital in a win-now/soon mode.

2 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

3.  What does Kevin King want? Going by annual value #1 is 20 million per season, #10 is 14, #20 is 10, #30 is 7.5.  Is King at 10ish million better than a first rounder at about 2, or Hollman at not quite 1?

I would hope for a 1 year prove it type deal around $5-7M.   just not sure King would go for that unless his market is soft.   But his metrics look good enough to warrant a team shelling out 10-12M if they have the space .... or are willing to push the cap ramifications a bit more than GB typically is.

2 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

4.  Does the structure of this contract prevent us from signing some of our other, more important players? Jaire and Adams are coming sooner rather than later, they will not be cheap.

Jaire is going to push or exceed the $20M/year.

Adams might be willing to take a bit less on his 3rd contract to stay with Rodgers a few more years.  maybe a restructure that shifts some money and gets Adams more guaranteed in the short term and secures the long term $$ as well.

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16 minutes ago, squire12 said:

 

Jaire is going to push or exceed the $20M/year.

Adams might be willing to take a bit less on his 3rd contract to stay with Rodgers a few more years.  maybe a restructure that shifts some money and gets Adams more guaranteed in the short term and secures the long term $$ as well.

I wouldn't risk losing either if it required giving King 30 cents more.  IF that is what it comes down to.

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