Kevin King relative to other #2 CB

[JBURGE]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

4 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

For me, it's more about resources. I'll die alone on the hill that I'm paying 33 over 20. 

You're probably right, and I still can't wrap my mind around it.

Hold on, does this mean paying Aaron Jones over $20m per year????????? Goodness gracious me 😂

You can go shopping for a 33's 2020 production in the first 3 rounds. You go shopping to replace Kevin King's 2020 production in the top 10. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by JBURGE

[Les Punting]

5 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

But you're expecting a rookie CB to come in and not struggle when history suggests they'll usually struggle before they figure it out.

Enough with straw mans already, that's two in a row. King doesn't have to be replaced with a holdover or a rookie. There'll be other free agent in next years unrestricted market. 

[Les Punting]

Can someone with a PFF subscription provide some insight into Kings grades? Per their metrics, King has been GB's lowest graded CB, among significant contributors, every single year of his career and will be again this year. I know some think PFF is crap, but year in and year out,  I don't see any bad or even mediocre players (per the eyball test) near the top of their rankings. 

What is it about Kings game that consistently earns him bottom of the barrel grades?

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, Les Punting said:

Enough with straw mans already, that's two in a row. King doesn't have to be replaced with a holdover or a rookie. There'll be other free agent in next years unrestricted market. 

We're already in a cap crunch, and you want to go out and pay market value for a CB?  This isn't Monopoly man.  There's only a finite amount of money.

[Donzo]

12 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Giving King any type of big deal is Nick Perry 2.0 waiting to happen. In 2 years we'll be talking about waiting for the dead money to clear so we can cut him. 

Yep, and he's not doing a good job making plays on the ball. We've seen the secondary rackup PBUs the last few weeks- I think Savage has like seven of 'em. Yet, while King is often in position, his man will still make the catch... Not good.

[JBURGE]

1 minute ago, Donzo said:

Yep, and he's not doing a good job making plays on the ball. We've seen the secondary rackup PBUs the last few weeks- I think Savage has like seven of 'em. Yet, while King is often in position, his man will still make the catch... Not good.

King has been great in his role the last 2 years. He is not an elite corner, and shouldn't be paid like one. But not everyone on the team can be elite. 

[CWood21]

Just now, Donzo said:

Yep, and he's not doing a good job making plays on the ball. We've seen the secondary rackup PBUs the last few weeks- I think Savage has like seven of 'em. Yet, while King is often in position, his man will still make the catch... Not good.

He's never had the ball skills.  That's been one of his biggest knocks going back to his days at Washington.  King is a guy whose more likely to run step for step with his receiver then he is of getting INTs.  That's not going to change.  His CMP% is been about 59% over the last two seasons, Jaire Alexander has been about 52% for comparison.  He's a good #2 CB if he can stay healthy.

[Donzo]

11 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

He's never had the ball skills.  That's been one of his biggest knocks going back to his days at Washington.  King is a guy whose more likely to run step for step with his receiver then he is of getting INTs.  That's not going to change.  His CMP% is been about 59% over the last two seasons, Jaire Alexander has been about 52% for comparison.  He's a good #2 CB  if he can stay healthy.

Big if.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Donzo

[Donzo]

12 minutes ago, JBURGE said:

King has been great in his role the last 2 years. He is not an elite corner, and shouldn't be paid like one. But not everyone on the team can be elite. 

I wouldn't say great, but solid when he's been available.

[skibrett15]

Messing with this secondary seems like a bad idea.  They are finally starting to gel.

Hopefully King isn't going to blow the market because of his injuries, I think this could be a good chance to get a very solid guy with some retained upside on a market deal.

 

Josh jackson is still on this team, so I suppose they could always make the call to just roll with him for 1 year.  But losing King and keeping preston smith seems like a backwards move.

[CWood21]

5 minutes ago, Donzo said:

Big if.

And that's the concern.  If you think injuries are a concern moving forward, you move on.  If you think he's moved past those early injury concerns, he's your #1 resign.

[Sasquatch]

18 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

And that's the concern.  If you think injuries are a concern moving forward, you move on.  If you think he's moved past those early injury concerns, he's your #1 resign.

King’s problems aren’t necessarily his stats (for a #2).  Aside from his injury issues, his problems tend to be optics.  All too often the camera catches him in some cringe-worthy situations, more so it seems than other corners not named Sullivan.

I admit that I have troubles getting into his camp.  If we look past his “moments”, he’s a serviceable #2 - at the right price.

[squire12]

On 12/20/2020 at 1:37 PM, squire12 said:

My thoughts

 

Kevin King compare rather well against other #2 CB across the league.  His biggest issue is availability.  

Over his career, King has consistently had a very nice QB rating against.  Again, availability being his biggest issue.

 

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Int	Tgt	Cmp	Cmp%	Yds	Yds/Cmp	Yds/Tgt	TD	Rat	DADOT	Air	YAC	Bltz	Hrry	QBKD	Sk	Prss	Comb	MTkl	MTkl%
2018	23	GNB	RCB	20	6	6	1	24	13	54.2%	143	11.0	6.0	3	94.3	12.0	94	49	1	0	0	0.0	0	17	3	15.0%
2019	24	GNB	RCB	20	15	14	5	85	50	58.8%	864	17.3	10.2	4	84.6	12.6	594	270	1	0	0	1.0	1	66	14	17.5%
2020	25	GNB	cb	20	9	9	0	38	20	52.6%	267	13.4	7.0	1	84.0	11.1	196	71	0	0	0	0.0	0	43	8	15.7%

from https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KingKe01.htm

 

 

56 minutes ago, Les Punting said:

Can someone with a PFF subscription provide some insight into Kings grades? Per their metrics, King has been GB's lowest graded CB, among significant contributors, every single year of his career and will be again this year. I know some think PFF is crap, but year in and year out,  I don't see any bad or even mediocre players (per the eyball test) near the top of their rankings. 

What is it about Kings game that consistently earns him bottom of the barrel grades?

not PFF, but I think the passer rating is a better metric to compare CB

[AlexGreen#20]

2 minutes ago, squire12 said:

from https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KingKe01.htm

 

 

not PFF, but I think the passer rating is a better metric to compare CB

5th of 12 in the NFC North in passer rating

2nd of 12 in targets/snap

3rd of 12 in completions/snap

4th of 12 in yards/snap

1st of 12 in TDs per snap. 

[incognito_man]

45 minutes ago, Donzo said:

I wouldn't say great, but solid when he's been available.

He's better than "solid" when available IMO. He's a high-end #2 and a low-end #1 when available. 

Just feel he will likely see a paycheck that values him at a mid-top 10ish #1 which is bad value that needs to be avoided when constructing a competitive team. There will very likely be better value than Kevin King at CB2 in all 3 areas to team building: (1) already on our roster behind him (2) in the draft (3) in veteran FA