Saints vs Chiefs

[Jlowe22]

Thoughts

Brees was of course rusty, but all in all not really that bad.  His arm looked a lot better than expected.  The statistics were bad, but physically and mentally, he looks good.

Receiver depth is trash.

Jared Cook trash.

Ruiz trash

Defense played as well as can be expected against the Chiefs.  Holding them below 40 is an accomplishment.

Anzalone screwed us though.

Loss, no surprise there.  Only need one more win to wrap up division, need to tighten up.

[Fray32]

I like Davenport in general, but these read options are giving him a hell of a time the last two games.

[Canadian Saint]

I think this loss is on Payton.

Let me start by saying this. This is a championship level D. What they held the Chiefs to in the 1st half was amazing. Yes they gave up plays but man they had to rely on Mahomes magic (which is so bloody easy for him) to get some plays done. In the 2nd half, they just had to keep going out there and got gassed. Against an elite offense in Kansas City, no way you can keep being out there.

For me the offense lost us this game. I honestly don't know what Payton was thinking. Brees is going to be rusty. Why keep trying big plays? Not only that, but we have like 2 guys with WR experience on the field, yet over and over and over we kept trying to take a big shot. We barely tried to run the ball or even commit to it. The Raiders won by running the ball, eating up the clock and taking their shots. I don't understand why we kept trying to make big plays. Only explanation I can think of is Kamara is banged up and Murray isn't trusted to carry the load.

Also I'm going to give Anzalone a break. He's going 100 MPH, if he got the TD great, however I can't fault him for that. ST got us a safety which is better than nothing. Our ST play was outstanding in this game.

Overall it's a loss but we should be encouraged. We were without a few guys (apart from MT, we missed Malcolm Brown and Harris) and we kept it close against the best team in the NFL. Would love a rematch against that team, who is the cream of the crop in the NFL.

Williams has a low ankle sprain (not a high ankle one thank goodness) and hope Hendrickson doesn't have any serious injures. We'll wait to see with Peat but I'm not all that confident with his history. With how GB is playing, no chance at the #1 seed so just tie up the division and see if we can manufacture a mini BYE week in the last week and rest some players.

EDIT TO ADD: God why not try an onside kick. Bloody hell.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Canadian Saint

[JMG5]

So many injuries for both teams. It felt like someone was limping off the field every possession.

[Jlowe22]

9 hours ago, Canadian Saint said:

I think this loss is on Payton.

Let me start by saying this. This is a championship level D. What they held the Chiefs to in the 1st half was amazing. Yes they gave up plays but man they had to rely on Mahomes magic (which is so bloody easy for him) to get some plays done. In the 2nd half, they just had to keep going out there and got gassed. Against an elite offense in Kansas City, no way you can keep being out there.

For me the offense lost us this game. I honestly don't know what Payton was thinking. Brees is going to be rusty. Why keep trying big plays? Not only that, but we have like 2 guys with WR experience on the field, yet over and over and over we kept trying to take a big shot. We barely tried to run the ball or even commit to it. The Raiders won by running the ball, eating up the clock and taking their shots. I don't understand why we kept trying to make big plays. Only explanation I can think of is Kamara is banged up and Murray isn't trusted to carry the load.

Also I'm going to give Anzalone a break. He's going 100 MPH, if he got the TD great, however I can't fault him for that. ST got us a safety which is better than nothing. Our ST play was outstanding in this game.

Overall it's a loss but we should be encouraged. We were without a few guys (apart from MT, we missed Malcolm Brown and Harris) and we kept it close against the best team in the NFL. Would love a rematch against that team, who is the cream of the crop in the NFL.

Williams has a low ankle sprain (not a high ankle one thank goodness) and hope Hendrickson doesn't have any serious injures. We'll wait to see with Peat but I'm not all that confident with his history. With how GB is playing, no chance at the #1 seed so just tie up the division and see if we can manufacture a mini BYE week in the last week and rest some players.

EDIT TO ADD: God why not try an onside kick. Bloody hell.

It did seem like Payton came into this game with the mindset that we were gonna have to take shots to keep up with the Chiefs.  I’ve never understood that mindset, I mean just stick to what we’re good at, which has been proven capable of scoring 40+ points the last few years.  I don’t mind the occasional deep ball, it was nice to see Brees complete a deep pass again, but it looked as if we were trying to change identity and it failed.

 

[whodatworm23]

Thoughts on the game...

 

Payton: 2 weeks in a row its like he forgot what his players are capable of. Last week vs Eagles he has his uber athletic QB throw 38 times with 1 desgined run. This week he has his 42 year old QB 1st game back from 9 fractured ribs and whos arm was dead before the injury heaving bombs all day and abandons the run game.

 

Brees: He knew hhe shouldn't be out there, you could see it in his face but that didnt stop him. Brees is offically at the point in his career where he is holding this roster back with his presence... Hard to say but its the truth.

 

Hill: Should have been starting at QB with a run heavy game plan with lots of RPO concepts. Still dont believe Hill is the future but he was the better option than a 42 year old with 9 fractured ribs and a dead arm who openly admitted after the game that he was not 100%.

 

Recievers: ZERO separation... No Mike Thomas... Team lacks a burner.

 

O-Line: Better overall performance than last week but gaurd play still looking shakey. Might be time to see if McCoy can be a high level guard and see if Ruiz can avoid the bust label by going back to center.

 

Defense: Overall impressed... Held up well with offense offering little to no complementary football. Davis and Alexander is a very good combo of linebackers, Lattimore was up for the challenge, I hope Williams injury is minimual, CGC is a baller. Jordan is the leader... He needs to be better than he was yesterday in such a big game. 

 

Special teams: Anzalone has to be sick... It happens, it was a hustle play and it got away from him. Still managed the safety. Lutz looked better.

[Jlowe22]

Brees arm looks dead sometimes, but not really so much last game.  Hell, the deep ball to Sanders looked better than Taysom’s deep balls.

His accuracy was bad off to start the game, and he looked antsy, but eventually settled into a rhythm.  I would rather he sat out until he was 100%, but if he was ever gonna play again we were gonna have to knock the rust off eventually.  
 

I think we lose with Taysom also, as his favorite target is out, and he might be the worst short ball thrower I’ve ever seen.  And there’s not much to say his deep balls would have been any better.  He struggles to use our best weapon and with Thomas out, I just don’t see him doing much with the practice squad guys.

At the end of the day, it was a 3 point loss with important people banged up against the best team in the league.  Not nearly as embarrassing as the Eagles loss.

[whodatworm23]

14 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

Brees arm looks dead sometimes, but not really so much last game.  Hell, the deep ball to Sanders looked better than Taysom’s deep balls.

His accuracy was bad off to start the game, and he looked antsy, but eventually settled into a rhythm.  I would rather he sat out until he was 100%, but if he was ever gonna play again we were gonna have to knock the rust off eventually.  
 

I think we lose with Taysom also, as his favorite target is out, and he might be the worst short ball thrower I’ve ever seen.  And there’s not much to say his deep balls would have been any better.  He struggles to use our best weapon and with Thomas out, I just don’t see him doing much with the practice squad guys.

At the end of the day, it was a 3 point loss with important people banged up against the best team in the league.  Not nearly as embarrassing as the Eagles loss.

I agree we lose with Hill as well but asking a 42 year old in his 1st game back from 11 fractured ribs and a callosped lung to get into a shootout with Mahomes is by far more of a reach than asking your uber athlete QB to play keep away, control the clock and actually guve your defense some help. Was Thomas out... Yes, but recievers couldnt get seperation anyway. To me it shows Payton might not be able to go away from what we have seen for the last 15 years. Why dont we see more 2 TE sets, more RPOs, more naked boots when Hills at QB? Payton is running the same offense with Hill in that he runs with Brees in. To me Payton isnt adapting and if he dont want to then fine, but explain to me why if thats the case, why do I see all these young QBs across the league right now playing very well... Where were we during the draft? Why didnt Payton plan ahead and go get one of these guys?

 

Oh... Cause he has all these plans for a 30 year old pet project that he dosent want to adapt his offense for.

 

Just confusing.

[Saint_James]

13 hours ago, Canadian Saint said:

I think this loss is on Payton.

 

I agree.  It was clear Brees needed to be sat after the first quarter.   That first quarter start by our offense killed us. Going 1/11 on third downs, killed us.  The entire first-half was just bad by Brees to be honest.

This defense deserved a Purple Heart and then some for what they did.  But you can't ask them to stop Mahomes over and over again while getting NOTHING from the offense.

It was clear Brees wasn't 100%.  He knew it, he admitted it, Payton definitely knew it.   So just why stick with him?  People saying "we lose with Taysom too"....what evidence is there for that?   Why is the best athlete on our team barely involved in a game where Brees is barely playing at a mediocre level?

44% and 1/11 on third downs...it's amazing we were even in that game with a QB playing that poorly.   This defense is legit, and the Chiefs don't look quite like the world-beaters everyone hypes them up to be.

I want to win another SB and right now I don't care about anyone's feelings or legacy at this point.   It was just a dumb decision to have Brees start this game.  At 41 years old, he HAS to be 100% physically to be able to perform.  He just wasn't last night and this was a big game we really needed to win. 

[Saint_James]

37 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

Brees arm looks dead sometimes, but not really so much last game.  Hell, the deep ball to Sanders looked better than Taysom’s deep balls.

His accuracy was bad off to start the game, and he looked antsy, but eventually settled into a rhythm.  I would rather he sat out until he was 100%, but if he was ever gonna play again we were gonna have to knock the rust off eventually.  
 

I think we lose with Taysom also, as his favorite target is out, and he might be the worst short ball thrower I’ve ever seen.  And there’s not much to say his deep balls would have been any better.  He struggles to use our best weapon and with Thomas out, I just don’t see him doing much with the practice squad guys.

At the end of the day, it was a 3 point loss with important people banged up against the best team in the league.  Not nearly as embarrassing as the Eagles loss.

I have to disagree.  He was throwing wobbling passes into tripple-coverage all night.  He's lucky he didn't have 4 interceptions.   The arm did not look good last night at all.  The deep ball to Sanders was nice, but come on, Sanders had 5 yards of separation. 

All Drew Brees has is accuracy, and he was 44% last night.   I don't believe he got "rusty" or forgot how to read defenses after not playing a few weeks.  He just wasn't physically 100% and at that age you HAVE to be 100% to get the job done.  Just my opinion but Payton should have benched Drew after the first quarter, if not halftime. 

[Saint_James]

23 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

 

 

Oh... Cause he has all these plans for a 30 year old pet project that he dosent want to adapt his offense for.

 

Just confusing.

Taysom Hill is completing 72% of his passes this season.   Gotta be honest, but getting a bit tired of hearing people say this.  He CAN execute our offense, we don't need to turn this into the Baltimore Ravens offense to win games.

I much rather have a QB that can run, then a "running quarterback".   Those generally don't last that long in the NFL, and rarely win championships. 

[Mid Iowa]

I'm most upset that Kamara, yet again, was averaging nearly 5 yards per carry, and we saw Payton doing what he does, abandon the run to force the pass to work, no matter what.

I'm over the "offensive genius" BS we've been hearing for so many years. He's coaching at mid level, with elite (or near elite) players. I know great coaches are hard to come by, but with the talent we've had over the last 15 years, to only have 1 ring is pretty pathetic, really. 

I'm having a lot of trouble with Payton's ego these days, guys. 

[Jlowe22]

1 minute ago, Saint_James said:

I have to disagree.  He was throwing wobbling passes into tripple-coverage all night.  He's lucky he didn't have 4 interceptions.   The arm did not look good last night at all.  The deep ball to Sanders was nice, but come on, Sanders had 5 yards of separation. 

All Drew Brees has is accuracy, and he was 44% last night.   I don't believe he got "rusty" or forgot how to read defenses after not playing a few weeks.  He just wasn't physically 100% and at that age you HAVE to be 100% to get the job done.  Just my opinion but Payton should have benched Drew after the first quarter, if not halftime. 

Yes he played badly early, yes that hurt us.  He looked much better as the game went on, which tells me he was good enough physically, just started slowly which killed us.  His arm strength was fine, his accuracy and ball placement was the problem.  He should have sat until he was 100% for sure, it was dumb to play him in a game we were gonna lose anyway.  The 1 seed was gone after the Eagles loss, shouldn’t have rushed him back.

At the same time I don’t see how anyone can say with a straight face that Taysom Hill is the answer.  He can’t even hit screen passes.  When he does manage to connect, the ball placement is so bad there’s no YAC.  His deep balls depend on great receiver plays.  He can’t read defenses, his awareness is bad, he averages two turnovers a game.  Maybe after an offseason of starter reps we’ll check again, but not at the moment.

If we lose a playoff game with old man Brees then so be it, it is what it is. If we lose a playoff game with Taysom while Brees is sitting on the bench, we’ll be the laughingstock of the league.

 

[Saint_James]

6 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

 

At the same time I don’t see how anyone can say with a straight face that Taysom Hill is the answer.  He can’t even hit screen passes.  When he does manage to connect, the ball placement is so bad there’s no YAC.  His deep balls depend on great receiver plays.  He can’t read defenses, his awareness is bad, he averages two turnovers a game.  Maybe after an offseason of starter reps we’ll check again, but not at the moment.

If we lose a playoff game with old man Brees then so be it, it is what it is. If we lose a playoff game with Taysom while Brees is sitting on the bench, we’ll be the laughingstock of the league.

 

 

To say you're being overly-critical of Taysom would be an understatement here.   But I get it, lots of people want to hate on this guy because we just cannot fathom life after Brees or whatever.  

Taysom gives the Saints offense an element we haven't had in 5 or 6 seasons.  As far as his passing chops, can you show me a game where he only completed 44% of his passes and was 1/11 on third downs this season?  I haven't seen it.  I love how you and others say he's such a bad passer, but you can't find any statistics to reflect that.

Screen passes?  You know what I'm so sick of these screens that barely ever work. Every team KNOWS the Saints are a screen pass team at this point, they just don't work anymore.   Drew Brees has targeted Kamara on 26% of his dropbacks this season.  That is INSANE for an NFL offense these days.  Taysom can RIP the 15+ yard seam passes and out routs and those have been missing from our offense for years now under Drew Brees.  He can make tight window throws to Thomas where Brees can't anymore, the ball comes out of his hand so slow now.  Do you want a guy that throws screens all game, or one that gets the ball to wide receivers? 

We've lost the past three playoff games with Brees and in all three he had slow starts JUST like this game.  Maybe I'm just freaking out a little bit but I saw the same guy last night....

Sure, a Drew Brees statistically gives us our best chance to win.   A 41 year old Drew Brees with bad ribs?  Not so much....

[whodatworm23]

31 minutes ago, Saint_James said:

Taysom Hill is completing 72% of his passes this season.   Gotta be honest, but getting a bit tired of hearing people say this.  He CAN execute our offense, we don't need to turn this into the Baltimore Ravens offense to win games.

I much rather have a QB that can run, then a "running quarterback".   Those generally don't last that long in the NFL, and rarely win championships. 

Its not about having a QB always running I agree, however... Its also not about trying to make Hill a Brees clone. 

 

He is not!

 

What im gettin too and what its truly about is exactly what the leauge has been trending towards and why Payton is so high on Hills potnetial. This leauge is about QBs that can EXTEND plays... Period. Look at the top 10 in QB index thus far...

1. Rodgers

2. Mahomes

3. Allen

4. Tannehill

5. Watson

6. Wilson

7. Jackson

8. Muarry

9. Brady

10. Herbert

 

Only 1 of the above (Brady) isnt a QB that extends plays and hes the GOAT. This is where the NFL is today. Its not about having a running QB, its about having a QB who can move and extend plays beyond the structure of the offense yet all of these players other than Brady are operating a offense that is built around their talents... When Hill is in Payton has him runnning a offense built around Brees talents.

 

I believe in Hill... If, only IF Payton is willing to. Adapt his offense to Taysoms skill set.