Jump to content

Saints vs Chiefs


Recommended Posts

46 minutes ago, Fray32 said:

Andrus Peat selected to the pro bowl 😅 

I refuse to acknowledge the ProBowl again until votes are stripped from players and fans and a special consol is created with former players and coaches with ethics and non bias to evaluate and vote on the players who actually deserve the honor!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/21/2020 at 1:00 PM, Mid Iowa said:

We'll never know, will we? If he gets 15 touches, I'd be surprised. You put him and Murray together on a 30 touch per game diet (like we saw in Detroit, 19 for Kamara, 14 for Murray, and then 3 for Hill, throw in some Deonte for a few more), and I'll guarantee you a different outcome (you know, like KC did to us last night). But no, Payton will almost never allow it, even though it worked to perfection in week 4.

And, yes, I appreciate what he's accomplished this season, and many seasons before, only to get smoked by crap teams (Eagles last week, Vikings in the playoffs last year) or go 7-9 3 seasons in a row in the peak of Brees's career. So maybe he is a genius, but his execution is par. Hell, even Eli Manning has more trophies than the Saints, so somethings amiss. 

I like Payton, right up until I don't, and the last 2 weeks have been piss poor coaching, to say the least.
I actually think if we'd have had a game plan with 25 rushing attempts, this score would have been more like 38 - 24 Saints.

I went back and looked at the numbers and you're just flat wrong.   The Saints pass percentage this season is the lowest in the Payton era.  We're one of the top rushing teams in the NFL on first down.  I don't know where this "run the ball" narrative is coming from, but we ARE running the ball a lot this season.

Against the Chiefs our first three series we ran 4 times and passed 5.   That's pretty balanced!   We just fell behind 14 points so, duh, you have to pass more in that scenario.

Have all the opinions you want about Paytons's coaching, fine.  But this narrative is absurd, and flat wrong.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/21/2020 at 9:41 PM, whodatworm23 said:

Hes going to be 31 years old at the start of next year. Hes been with the Saints for 3 years behind Brees. Exactly how much more development do you think is required? How much longer are you willing to give him? At what point does a player whose more of ann athlete begin to lose to father time?

 

Also... Touch is a very important attribute when evaluating a QB. Jamarcus Russell had a powerful arm. Is touch everything? No but Id rather have a QB with average arm strength and great touch than a player with great arm strength and average touch.

He's never had time behind Brees as a QUARTERBACK until this season.   Why aren't you guys paying attention to your own team?  Don't you listen to Payton and Hill?  He's never had first-team reps as a QB until this season.   He can barely get in the QB meetings with all his extra duties.  He's had to learn TE, special teams, some QB, etc etc.   His focus has been split due to all the things he can do physically.  He's never been strictly treated as a QB until mid-season this year.

He doesn't need a ton of development, where are you getting that?  He just needs more experience in games and more quarterback coaching. 

Payton says the next QB is in the building.  I'm fine if it's Taysom.  He's 3-1 as a starter and is completing over 70%  of his passes and some people think he's trash.  Just ignorant.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/21/2020 at 10:12 PM, JohnCena said:

All those players mentioned above are also elite throwers of the football as well, Taysom Hill is anything but that. If I were the Saints I'd start Jameis Winston next year. 

Did you just call Tannyhill and Jackson "elite" throwers of the football?    LOL!! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Saint_James said:

He's never had time behind Brees as a QUARTERBACK until this season.   Why aren't you guys paying attention to your own team?  Don't you listen to Payton and Hill?  He's never had first-team reps as a QB until this season.   He can barely get in the QB meetings with all his extra duties.  He's had to learn TE, special teams, some QB, etc etc.   His focus has been split due to all the things he can do physically.  He's never been strictly treated as a QB until mid-season this year.

He doesn't need a ton of development, where are you getting that?  He just needs more experience in games and more quarterback coaching. 

Payton says the next QB is in the building.  I'm fine if it's Taysom.  He's 3-1 as a starter and is completing over 70%  of his passes and some people think he's trash.  Just ignorant.

 

 

Sorry... This is just funny to me. Lol

 

First, Hill learns "packages" at positions he plays. He does not focus all of his time in TE rooms, WR rooms or RB rooms. I'll give you his time with Special Teams gets extensive at times but he's never 100% part of those meetings, only when discussing certain packages that Hill will be operating in. The majority of Hills time is in the QB room and with Drew Brees. Both Hill and Payton held an interview with Fox last season explaining Hills daily routine on this. When I speak of further development im talking about how a 31 uear year old NFL QB cannot even make a simple timing swing pass without throwing the ball 100 mph. High shool QBs are mastering this right now. In today's 7 on 7 high school competitions QBs are developing an internal clock quicker with quicker releases. These kids are far more prepared these days and Hill is not just fighting his lack of development but the extensive development of kids 10 years younger than him.

 

Does this mean Hill cant be the Saints QB in 2021... No, hell ive even said that he will be. But what I have said was that just being the next guy after Brees in no way means your assured to be the future at the position. Yes, Hill will likley be the Saints starter in 2021 but is he the future? My opinion is no and its because of a multitude of factors I blend into the equation such as age, development, ability, ball security, finances and other potential prospects at the position who are bound to be available at some point.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

Sorry... This is just funny to me. Lol

 

 

 

It's funny to me that a guy misses a few swing passes and it's some damning indictment on his ability to play the position.   When the majority of his throws are going for first downs instead of 5 yard dumpoffs.  To me THAT'S pretty funny.

He made a throw in his third game....I still don't even know how he did it.  The window wasn't tight, it was closed and he fit it in over one guy and between two others.  And you guys are focusing on stupid screen passes?  Just...okay.   It's been 6 years since we had a QB with the arm to make a tight window throw up the seam like that.

Go look at some older footage of Drew Brees and compare it to this season.  It's shocking.  The ball has NO zip on it.   Yeah no wonder we run so many screens!  The current Brees offense isn't sustainable in the playoffs, we already know this.   We will lose AGAIN this year, guaranteed, when we run into a good defense. 

Look at our salary cap situation in 2021.  We're not getting some big name marque QB in free agency and we damn sure aren't drafting one.  I'll take Taysom over the woman-groping interception machine weirdass manchild we have sitting on the bench eating W's....

Edited by Saint_James
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Saint_James said:

 

It's funny to me that a guy misses a few swing passes and it's some damning indictment on his ability to play the position.   When the majority of his throws are going for first downs instead of 5 yard dumpoffs.  To me THAT'S pretty funny.

He made a throw in his third game....I still don't even know how he did it.  The window wasn't tight, it was closed and he fit it in over one guy and between two others.  And you guys are focusing on stupid screen passes?  Just...okay.   It's been 6 years since we had a QB with the arm to make a tight window throw up the seam like that.

Go look at some older footage of Drew Brees and compare it to this season.  It's shocking.  The ball has NO zip on it.   Yeah no wonder we run so many screens!  The current Brees offense isn't sustainable in the playoffs, we already know this.   We will lose AGAIN this year, guaranteed, when we run into a good defense. 

Look at our salary cap situation in 2021.  We're not getting some big name marque QB in free agency and we damn sure aren't drafting one.  I'll take Taysom over the woman-groping interception machine weirdass manchild we have sitting on the bench eating W's....

Who said we were going sign one?

 

Why can't we draft one... Mac Jones and Kyle Trask appear to be mid to late 1st round to 2nd round options. 

 

You think its as simple as a few missed swing passes and screens... How about a 75 million dollar all purpose back whose been regulated to 40% of his ability since Hill has become the starter. How about the highest rate of turnovers at the position in over 15 years. The quarterback position in essence is a distributor... Thats his job, especially when you possess the weapons the Saints do. Is athletic ability a plus, sure but its not the end all be all. As ive said before and ill say it again, QB is 90% from the neck up. Hey, your a fan of Hill and you believ in him... Good for you. I like the kid too bit i dont believe hes a franchise QB.

 

Its ok we disagree on a player we both like. Lol

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

 

You think its as simple as a few missed swing passes and screens... How about a 75 million dollar all purpose back whose been regulated to 40% of his ability since Hill has become the starter. How about the highest rate of turnovers at the position in over 15 years. The quarterback position in essence is a distributor... Thats his job, especially when you possess the weapons the Saints do. Is athletic ability a plus, sure but its not the end all be all. As ive said before and ill say it again, QB is 90% from the neck up. Hey, your a fan of Hill and you believ in him... Good for you. I like the kid too bit i dont believe hes a franchise QB.

 

Its ok we disagree on a player we both like. Lol

 Taysom IS distributing the ball at over 70% efficiency.  Nice try.  The fumbles are a result of these stupid read option plays that get called for him.   Those don't work anymore.

If he was throwing lots of Int's you would have a point, but you don't.  He should only have runs called for him when we're in a goal-line situation where he's proven to be unstoppable. 

Also franchise QB's aren't born, they are made.  So what exactly do you mean he can't be a franchise QB?  Who decides that if not for coach Payton?   He certainly has the skillset and arm talent.  The rest will come with coaching and practice. 

Yes we both like Hill but there's this air of elitism some have about this situation that's very off-putting.   You might feel that nobody can replace Brees...but someone will have to.  Life has to go on.   Nobody knows the future but we know he's already an efficient passer and he's 3-1 as a starter.  

We're 8-1 without Brees as a starter in recent years.  Maybe that should be a clue to some people that Payton knows a thing or two about quarterbacks.

Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Saint_James said:

 We're 8-1 without Brees as a starter in recent years.  Maybe that should be a clue to some people that Payton knows a thing or two about quarterbacks.

Neither QB played terribly, Bridgewater especially played really well two games, but lets be honest.  During Brees absence, the defense was absurdly good in nearly all those games, except...surprise....the one we lost.  Team record in those games is a terrible way to evaluate either QB.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Saint_James said:

 Taysom IS distributing the ball at over 70% efficiency.  Nice try.  The fumbles are a result of these stupid read option plays that get called for him.   Those don't work anymore.

If he was throwing lots of Int's you would have a point, but you don't.  He should only have runs called for him when we're in a goal-line situation where he's proven to be unstoppable. 

Also franchise QB's aren't born, they are made.  So what exactly do you mean he can't be a franchise QB?  Who decides that if not for coach Payton?   He certainly has the skillset and arm talent.  The rest will come with coaching and practice. 

Yes we both like Hill but there's this air of elitism some have about this situation that's very off-putting.   You might feel that nobody can replace Brees...but someone will have to.  Life has to go on.   Nobody knows the future but we know he's already an efficient passer and he's 3-1 as a starter.  

We're 8-1 without Brees as a starter in recent years.  Maybe that should be a clue to some people that Payton knows a thing or two about quarterbacks.

On one hand you praise Payton while on the other you scapegoat him fo Hill not being able to hold onto the football?

 

Then you say Payton knows a thing or 2 about quarterbacks but question that woman groping interception machine weird *** manchild eating W's...

 

Ok

 

You say Hill hasn't tossed INTs but he has (2 in 4 games) and ANYONE who has watched these 4 games understand hes lucy not to have 6-8. Recievers are turning into defensive backs quiet often since hes been the QB. E.Sanders himself saved Hill from 2 INTs himself.

 

Now we shouldn't run Hill unless in goalline situations again... Doesn't Payton make those decisions? I thought you said we should trust Payton?

 

Elitism???

 

Give mee a FN break... Don't even try to come at me with that. TOTAL COP OUT!!! No one on here has been more critical of Brees and Payton during my time on this site.

 

You say Hill has the skill set and arm talent but just needs more coaching annd practice... Arm strength, sure although thats part of his issues. He has zero abiltiy to put touch on his passes in the short game and on his long balls he tennds to push the ball too hard causing fluttering and far to much arc at times. A strong arm is not always a great thing, not everyone is Patrick Mahomes... Way more Jamarcus Russells, Kyle Byolers and Jeff Georges out there.  As far as skill set... I agree Hill has alot. Of. Quality tools to work with but i also am willing to admit that he lacks basic fundamentals that many players and prospects a decade younger than him have mastered already. Understandably so... Look Hill did a 2 year mission, played in a run dominant college offense, had 4 season ending innjuries in college, was a utility player thus far in the NFL. Yes hes behind in certain things but regardless... He iis behind. He is. In his 30s already and yes those are issues held aganist him fair or not.

 

Your right tho... Life does go on so chill. Also no one knnows the future annd Hill was 3-1 as the starter. Teddy B was 5-0 and hes with the Panthers right now so who gives a flip. Win loss record is not how you evaluate a QBs progress, far too many other factors involved in that.

 

As I said... You got yo Taysom Hill palm palms and thats great, im happy for you. HELL i. Even hope your. Right!

 

I just dont think you are... Nothing to do with elitism, just based off of following the sport for 20 years and evaluating players for the same amounmt of time.

 

A player I. Comp Hill to often is Mitch Trubisky... Trubisky went early in the draft (it was wrong) but he did. Why? Due to his tantalizing physical ability. Hes a thick. Kid whos a good athlete, mobile with a good arm. He was raw tho wiith only 1 year starting in. College and he never caught up. Hill is a better athlete than Mitch while Mitch has better throwing mechanics. However they are both comparable players who are NFL QBs... Just maybe not franchise guys.

 

Once again tho... I feel i need to stress this.

 

I do believe Hill is an NFL QB. I hope im wrong about him not being a franchise guy!!! I do believe he will. Be the starter in 21 and get hiis shot to take the job moving fwd. I love the make up and tools the guy has. I am a fan. I just wont let my emotions cloud my judgement of my evaluation onn him. I love his 3rd down conversions thus far and the fact that hes over 70% comp rate! However he has to protect the ball better, gotta get his QBR up, must develop better feel in side the pocket, must develop touch in the short game annd get Kamara involved in the passinng game, has got to get his comp rate when his 1st read isnt there up... Terrible right now. Needs to develop ann internal clock annd bbe willing to use his god given ability (hiis legs) to keep the chains moving. When need be annd nnot be so hesitant. 

 

Im rooting for the guy... But i call it as i see it on the field. Hopefully he continues to improve his flaws and realizes his potential.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jlowe22 said:

Neither QB played terribly, Bridgewater especially played really well two games, but lets be honest.  During Brees absence, the defense was absurdly good in nearly all those games, except...surprise....the one we lost.  Team record in those games is a terrible way to evaluate either QB.  

Yeah I gotta go with this. Imagine Brees missed more games between 2014-2016. Those would be miserable games/years to sit through.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Fray32 said:

Yeah I gotta go with this. Imagine Brees missed more games between 2014-2016. Those would be miserable games/years to sit through.

Those years were just a mess.  It was the last dying gasp of old players from the superbowl era team combined with bad free agent signings, and terrible defensive roster.  It was after Sproles and Thomas left, but before Kamara arrived. Colston was old, Graham was getting worse and worse until the trade. Team was just miserable at that time.

My brain to this day still associates DPI calls with Brandon Browner's face.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

Those years were just a mess.  It was the last dying gasp of old players from the superbowl era team combined with bad free agent signings, and terrible defensive roster.  It was after Sproles and Thomas left, but before Kamara arrived. Colston was old, Graham was getting worse and worse until the trade. Team was just miserable at that time.

My brain to this day still associates DPI calls with Brandon Browner's face.

I refer to those years as the pre Jeff Ireland years where Payton was calling most of the scouting shots.

 

God they were terrible!

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Saint_James said:

Did you just call Tannyhill and Jackson "elite" throwers of the football?    LOL!! 

Yeah come back when Taysom Hill has a season where he throws for 30+ touchdowns and under 6 interceptions.  LOL!!

I meant to say most of those guys are elite throwers I was going to point out minus Lamar and Tannehill but those guys are still lightyears ahead of Taysom Hill when it comes to throwing the football, and that was the discussion at hand so I didn't find it necessary.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...