incognito_man Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: HHCD, Clay Mathews, and experienced vets on this team are losing their gaps against the intricate formations of Atlanta. The team seems unable to run all coverages and fronts vs all offensive schemes and fronts, and also seems to be one of the worst tackling teams at the CB and LB levels year after year. Sounds like you think we need an overhaul at defensive positional coaches if the fundamental assignments and tackling are issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Just now, incognito_man said: Sounds like you think we need an overhaul at defensive positional coaches if the fundamental assignments and tackling are issues. As MM loves to say... fundamentals. My big picture theory is that the problem starts at the top. Every year it's the same story about the "nitro" package or the "psycho package" or the "elephant" position or "Burnett is a LB". Show that you can do something well, then expand on that expertise. It's either DC's job to find position coaches and he's failed, or MM needs a stronger presence on defense who would be a threat to replace him as HC if the offense were the issue and the Defense was the strong suit. If MM isn't going to hold the defensive coaches accountable himself, then DC needs to go. PIT, BUF, MIA are good models of similarly talented teams that aren't trying to do too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: As MM loves to say... fundamentals. My big picture theory is that the problem starts at the top. Every year it's the same story about the "nitro" package or the "psycho package" or the "elephant" position or "Burnett is a LB". Show that you can do something well, then expand on that expertise. It's either DC's job to find position coaches and he's failed, or MM needs a stronger presence on defense who would be a threat to replace him as HC if the offense were the issue and the Defense was the strong suit. If MM isn't going to hold the defensive coaches accountable himself, then DC needs to go. PIT, BUF, MIA are good models of similarly talented teams that aren't trying to do too much. 2017 DVOA: BUF (3), GB (7), PIT (9), MIA (13) (thru week 1) 2016 DVOA: PIT (11), MIA (19), GB (20), BUF (27) 2015 DVOA: GB (9), PIT (11), BUF (24), MIA (25) 2-YEAR AVG: PIT (11), GB (14.5), MIA (22), BUF (25.5) They are doing it different, maybe - but not better. There is a chasm between how the average GB thinks of Dom and what the results actually indicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 sorry, Buffalo with mcdermott and Frazier. Not really much data there just the type of scheme I like. Miami with Gase HC and Joseph/Burke as DC (same system). Pitt with Butler is constant since 2015. Very similar to this team with a strong OLB/DL group, weak corners. They have Shazier, we have HHCD... Cincy is a good measuring stick too with Guenther/Lewis. Good coaches, not overly talented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 13 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: sorry, Buffalo with mcdermott and Frazier. Not really much data there just the type of scheme I like. Miami with Gase HC and Joseph/Burke as DC (same system). Pitt with Butler is constant since 2015. Very similar to this team with a strong OLB/DL group, weak corners. They have Shazier, we have HHCD... Cincy is a good measuring stick too with Guenther/Lewis. Good coaches, not overly talented. Go to Pitts forum every time they play NE or when Manning was in Denver. They have the exact same complaints we do. If we played CLE, BAL and CIN 6 times a year, our D would look great too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Just now, Packerraymond said: Go to Pitts forum every time they play NE or when Manning was in Denver. They have the exact same complaints we do. If we played CLE, BAL and CIN 6 times a year, our D would look great too. Pitt was bad at the end of lebeau. Now they are ascending. They have an opportunity to grow this year, but I doubt they will decline. Anyway, the D in DVOA stands for defense adjusted. Which, while clunky sounding when referring to defenses, really means "opponent-adjusted". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: Pitt was bad at the end of lebeau. Now they are ascending. They have an opportunity to grow this year, but I doubt they will decline. Anyway, the D in DVOA stands for defense adjusted. Which, while clunky sounding when referring to defenses, really means "opponent-adjusted". Would you say they're on the ascend because they have a good mix of vets and young guys playing? Kind of like us? Why aren't we on the ascend? They have the same issues we do. Sean Davis, Artie Burns, etc those guys look fine until they face a good QB, then they get picked on. I'm sure they'll grow and get better, why can't Randall, Rollins, King, Hawkins, Jones and Brice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Yeah, don't get me wrong, this season is still TBD and I'm optimistic they can succeed with an average Defense supported by average coaching. Capers appears to be the sputtering clock which is somehow right slightly more than twice a day. There's enough talent on the roster to say that we are ascending. The larger issue is all teams are ascending every year. Packers are changing players for other players, but are they improving at those changes better than other teams? I like what we've seen from the 2 recent drafts in terms of talent, and I like the additions of Davon House and hopefully Ahmad Brooks. Those will pay dividends. I don't like how, after somewhat promising rookie seasons, we haven't seen improvement from Randall, Rollins, or Ryan. That almost doesn't add up. Still, I think the game has passed Capers by. it was well chronicled in 2012/2013 by other posters here that Capers Defenses start to slip after the first few years of dominance. While 2014 was a nice surprise when absolutely everyone got healthy at the same time, the trend is definitely heading down. There's blame to go around - injuries in 2016, execution vs Arizona, but the reality is DC is at the center of it all. He owns the Defense. Change for change's sake will help this team. It worked in Denver, and I think it will work here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: Yeah, don't get me wrong, this season is still TBD and I'm optimistic they can succeed with an average Defense supported by average coaching. Capers appears to be the sputtering clock which is somehow right slightly more than twice a day. There's enough talent on the roster to say that we are ascending. The larger issue is all teams are ascending every year. Packers are changing players for other players, but are they improving at those changes better than other teams? I like what we've seen from the 2 recent drafts in terms of talent, and I like the additions of Davon House and hopefully Ahmad Brooks. Those will pay dividends. I don't like how, after somewhat promising rookie seasons, we haven't seen improvement from Randall, Rollins, or Ryan. That almost doesn't add up. Still, I think the game has passed Capers by. it was well chronicled in 2012/2013 by other posters here that Capers Defenses start to slip after the first few years of dominance. While 2014 was a nice surprise when absolutely everyone got healthy at the same time, the trend is definitely heading down. There's blame to go around - injuries in 2016, execution vs Arizona, but the reality is DC is at the center of it all. He owns the Defense. Change for change's sake will help this team. It worked in Denver, and I think it will work here. I don't think Ryans that bad, he barely plays any snaps anymore with us playing Nitro so much. I think Randall and Rollins might be gone soon. Rollins hasn't done anything, and Randalls play is so frustrating because he's just so damn inconsistent, I thought he played well last week, but he can't handle top WRs. King has at least shown he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 24 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: Yeah, don't get me wrong, this season is still TBD and I'm optimistic they can succeed with an average Defense supported by average coaching. Capers appears to be the sputtering clock which is somehow right slightly more than twice a day. There's enough talent on the roster to say that we are ascending. The larger issue is all teams are ascending every year. Packers are changing players for other players, but are they improving at those changes better than other teams? I like what we've seen from the 2 recent drafts in terms of talent, and I like the additions of Davon House and hopefully Ahmad Brooks. Those will pay dividends. I don't like how, after somewhat promising rookie seasons, we haven't seen improvement from Randall, Rollins, or Ryan. That almost doesn't add up. Still, I think the game has passed Capers by. it was well chronicled in 2012/2013 by other posters here that Capers Defenses start to slip after the first few years of dominance. While 2014 was a nice surprise when absolutely everyone got healthy at the same time, the trend is definitely heading down. There's blame to go around - injuries in 2016, execution vs Arizona, but the reality is DC is at the center of it all. He owns the Defense. Change for change's sake will help this team. It worked in Denver, and I think it will work here. Have you accounted for the possibility that change isn't necessarily the driver, and perhaps a group of high draft picks from previous poor seasons that led to coaching changes perhaps provided talent on the field that was the real reason for change? And that when success was achieved the cheap talent disappears due to decreased draft capital. My gut tells me this has far more to do with "early success" of new coordinators more than anything else. The best way to be good is to have been bad and then get competent drafting followed by competent coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 How are Dial and Brooks looking in the defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PackyAttacky Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 4 hours ago, Forge said: How are Dial and Brooks looking in the defense? Brooks played one or two series in week one and then was concussed and yet to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 I thought Dial looked pretty good last week. Active. More athletic (movement) than I remembered...... That being said, I think his snaps are even more limited when Adams comes back.... Brooks looked wicked in his couple of series. I remember him crushing Lacy in the hole, sending him backwards right away. I saw #55 and had to google who it was right away. And it was Brooks. Heck, that is probably when he got concussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 6 hours ago, PackyAttacky said: Brooks played one or two series in week one and then was concussed and yet to return. I liked this post...but not because brooks got concussed but because you answered lol felt weird to just like a post saying someone got a concussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyecatcher Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, vegas492 said: I thought Dial looked pretty good last week. Active. More athletic (movement) than I remembered...... That being said, I think his snaps are even more limited when Adams comes back.... Brooks looked wicked in his couple of series. I remember him crushing Lacy in the hole, sending him backwards right away. I saw #55 and had to google who it was right away. And it was Brooks. Heck, that is probably when he got concussed. Bomani Jones had a segment the other night on why did you quit football. A guy called in talking about how he was the RB for his team and he busted through the line only to be hit by the LB who hit him so hard he was knocked out. He quit on the spot but the guy who hit him is in his 11th season in the NFL. None other than Ahmad Brooks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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