2020 GDT Week #16 Steelers vs. Colts

[turtle28]

17 hours ago, 3rivers said:

stay tuned, hopes are you aren't but lets all agree fichner is a problem.  Maybe ben has been injured to the point it has affected his throwing and the result was all those games of short passes. Don't tell us loyal fans about the severity, lets us call for firings

Well I agree about Fincher but I think Ben was getting a raw deal especially since Ben has been playing with a knee injury and since that injury he’s played worse. Plus, on top of that, the OL has played like “poo” since the 2nd half of the Washington game and no one should blame Ben for that, on top of all the issues the receivers had with drops.

The bottom line is even if Fincher is gone, they’re still going to have a pass first offense bc Ben is there. It just is what it is.

I also think having Conner back made a difference. Snell & McFarland are fine, but Conner is better than them.

Edited December 28, 2020 by turtle28

[43M]

20 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I’m checking in for the fire Tomlin & Fincher party and the force Ben to retire party, am I in the right place?

Im all for Fitchner being fired and Ben retiring.   You think a decent 20 minutes changes anything?  😄😄

[Livewire]

 

[Steelers22]

26 minutes ago, Livewire said:

 

Jesus, that makes him look really bad. Unfortunately, Ben has so much pull on this team that as long as Ben is still playing, Fichtner will be the OC. They are two peas in a pod.

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, jebrick said:

I would slightly amend your answer in that Ben is telling the Wr what routes to run.  I think what he calls in the huddle is the formations and protection and he tells WR what routes he wants them to run.   You will see the huddle break and the receivers stay to get extra instructions.

 

Fitchner has no concept of play calling.  I am not sure he is decent at designing plays so why is he there?

Actually it’s not uncommon for the OL to break before WRs. I’m sure others that played can offer far more than me but usually the playcall includes protection, formation, routes kinda in that order. 

[43M]

AV is a laughably bad run blocker, and his pass blocking is declining.   Pretty much exactly the same issues as Pouncey.

They might just be better off letting him go this offseason and either drafting someone or giving Chuks a chance at LT.

He isnt the only issue in the line, but we need to start retooling this OL and Id rather start now, rather than giving another mediocre OLineman a new extension.

Money may have forced him out regardless, but I hope they dont view him as a top priority.

[DR43]

Off the wall question: Are guys like Cam Sutton and James Connor as good as gone next year or do we have a fifth year option on them?

[AFF]

14 minutes ago, DR43 said:

Off the wall question: Are guys like Cam Sutton and James Connor as good as gone next year or do we have a fifth year option on them?

IIRC, both are UFAs.

5th year options are only for 1st rd picks.

Edited December 29, 2020 by AFF

[43M]

47 minutes ago, DR43 said:

Off the wall question: Are guys like Cam Sutton and James Connor as good as gone next year or do we have a fifth year option on them?

I think Connor might sugn a cheap 2 year deal.   No one is giving him big money.   Not dependable enough.

Sutton is definitely gone.   

[Steelers22]

I will be very disappointed if they don't bring one of Sutton or Hilton back. Sutton seems more likely. I'd take Conner back for a minimum deal but he'll get more somewhere else. He's pretty easily replaceable imo

[43M]

15 minutes ago, Steelers22 said:

I will be very disappointed if they don't bring one of Sutton or Hilton back. Sutton seems more likely. I'd take Conner back for a minimum deal but he'll get more somewhere else. He's pretty easily replaceable imo

I dont know that Conner will get much more elsewhere.     I think if we offer him something like $7 or 8m over 2 years, he will come back on a hometown deal.   It would be one thing if he was a more proven and dependable back, but given his injury history and the fact that he hasnt done much the last two seasons, I dont think he will realistically get much more anywhere else.  I think he could get a little more...but I think he would take SOMEWHAT less to stay in the area.

Then again, there are always teams with too much cap room, signing players to crazy deals....so who the hell knows.

[bigben07MVP]

7 hours ago, Steelers22 said:

I will be very disappointed if they don't bring one of Sutton or Hilton back. Sutton seems more likely. I'd take Conner back for a minimum deal but he'll get more somewhere else. He's pretty easily replaceable imo

In terms of priority this is how I would rate our FAs:

Bud

Hilton (He impacts our defense almost as much as Bud with a worse replacement if we don’t retain Sutton)

Juju (the biggest luxury to bring back IMO. I would love to have him back but Claypool, DJ, J Wash is a more than serviceable 3 WR set and we will probably draft another regardless)

Feiler (I think they should move him back out to RT and let Dotson start)

Sutton (hasn’t looked AS good in a more expanded role this year, Hilton miles better/more impactful. Sutton’s value lies in his versatility)

Tyson

Conner

AV (wouldn’t be surprised if he retires, he looks done)

[3rivers]

will Sutton be like Keenan  Lewis, goes and starts and is really good, while we suffer? Maybe they keep Sutton and let Haden walk or play for less? It's not a nice season for the cap, wait and see is all  we can do.

[bigben07MVP]

3 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

will Sutton be like Keenan  Lewis, goes and starts and is really good, while we suffer? Maybe they keep Sutton and let Haden walk or play for less? It's not a nice season for the cap, wait and see is all  we can do.

I have that fear as well but it’s a risk I’m willing to take to keep Hilton. We clearly will not be able to keep both.

I forgot to mention Banner in my post. I’d probably put him in between Feiler and Sutton. Cam moves up to #2 if Hilton is gone.

[Dcash4]

18 hours ago, warfelg said:

The concepts don't change from when Fitchner is calling plays and when Ben is calling the plays.

To be fair to the whole picture, I do believe that this is, in part, because Ben = Fichtner in terms of gameplan. I think we all feel that Fichtner was retained after Haley was pushed aside so that Ben had more control of the offense. I absolutely agree with you in terms of Ben having a far better feel for piecing routes together, but I also think his hands are fully in the game day pie regardless of calling plays. Would the least surprising thing people read on the internet today be that under Randy Fichtner in his 2 healthy years 38 year old Ben leads the NFL in attempts by over 50 tries?

What I was ultimately hoping to see by rewatching was more Canada concepts pointing to him kinda taking some of the controls, and it wasnt. As nice as it was to see us go down the field successfully, this was the 2018 offense again - and that ultimately had its major flaws as well. 

But 100%, Ben is better at piecing together routes than Fichtner. I'll just never understand what Fichtner sees when he draws up plays. Put paper in front of me and Im going to draw concepts that work with each other, Fichtner just say "eh, couple 4's and a 3, find the open guy". Even just little changes that I think Ben probably helped with in the second half was lining up Claypool and DJ in front of and inside of JuJu in that duel stack. By doing that, defenses responded to the greater threat and allowed us to get free yards under DJ and Chase. Its just incredible that simple things worked and that our guy paid to make these changes cant see them. 

19 hours ago, warfelg said:

I think Fitchner can't see those things happening on the sideline at all; and the reason Ben liked him in the first place was he was in the booth communicating Haley's playcalls so Ben knew he saw the same things.  I would be willing to bet if Fitchner were on the sideline and Haley in the booth all those years, Haley would still be the OC....and easily.  I think if they could go back to that system, where Fitchner is on the sidelines calling the plays, but Canada were in the booth relaying the plays to Ben, or Fitchner in the booth calling plays and Canada relaying them to Ben then the offense would look more like the second half last week.

This greatly interests me. I think this is an awesome thought, War.