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Bears vs. Jags - GDT


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9 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

I don't see it, no. After last year I had some optimism but this year has kind of zapped it. The arm just isn't strong enough to make a lot of the throws you need to make, he bails on clean pockets too often to make something happen, etc. 

Cool. I was under the impression that his arm was adequate, but nothing special. But I've watched, and followed, football (in general) a lot less this year than I have in years past...

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4 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

No, there isn't.

Pace stuck by Trubisky when there was overwhelming evidence that this was either foolish, or misguided. I was one of the few people on this forum who thought that the Foles trade was a good one, and that there was a chance that Foles could end up as a decent starter. I'm still not certain I was wrong about that, but that's a whole other conversation to have, but I bring this up because, in my view, the Foles trade was still about the third (or fourth) best option Pace had to address the quarterback situation. And...that's not good. Quarterback is the most important position on a professional football team, and he screwed up because of ego. And if Pace returns, it's likely Mitch does too, and that's probably not the best solution to the quarterback dilemma, going forward. 

Pace also botched the last draft in a big way--I won't detail that as I've went on and on about it in the past.  When Cohen went down, he didn't do much of substance to replace him, merely brought Pierce up from the practice squad, only to see Nagy not play him. And there's plenty of other things we could go over, but the bottom line is that while Pace has done some very good things, on balance his stubbornness and poor overall planning has cost the team more than it has helped them. The Bears are now right up against the salary cap with a roster designed to win it all right now...which it's probably incapable of. The Bears could still make the playoffs, sure, but I don't think anyone around here believes they can do much if they get there. I was one of the most optimistic folks around here at the beginning of the season, even with the terrible draft--figuring the club could rack up double digit wins, maybe win a playoff game (or two). 

Nagy has done some things very well, and the late resurgence of the Bears has been impressive, and I've given Nagy props for that. On the other hand, he's also done some incredibly stupid things that pretty much everybody on the forum has criticized him for. Most notably, his use of personnel, and just when guys see the field. Oh, hey! This Bars guy looks like he can play pretty well! Who woulda thunk it? Well...actually everybody on the forum here. But Bars saw the field because of attrition, because, you know, we simply HAD to stick with uber-talented guys like Coward and Massie. Bars looked better at tackle than guard in the past, but we've still got to trot Leno out there every weekend, to do...whatever the hell it is that he does. Wander around, I guess. Fall down a lot. 

Also, the Bears offense only became functional after Nagy handed the play calling duties to someone else. Over three years in. What happens if Lazor decides to take a different job somewhere? Is Nagy going to replace him with someone who he can trust to call the plays, or will Nagy pick right back up where he left off? Inside zone runs with midget running backs? Constant, poorly designed motion plays that confuse and hamper his own offense as much as they do the opposing defense?

We're better off if they both go. 

And yet with all of this bad...he still has a winning record...regardless of what he has done with the QB spot and other players...play calling and game management...he is still winning more than he is losing...you get rid of those guys and you quickly get into a rut if your next guy doesn't win games.

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5 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

And yet with all of this bad...he still has a winning record...regardless of what he has done with the QB spot and other players...play calling and game management...he is still winning more than he is losing...you get rid of those guys and you quickly get into a rut if your next guy doesn't win games.

Well, sure. That kind of goes along with it, right? If they're replaced, the big question then becomes; does the next GM try to salvage what good Pace HAS done, or is it a rebuild, trying to make the roster younger, and whatever else the new guy can think of. I would hope a retool is in order, but can understand if the (hypothetical) next guy wants to take it further than that.

But you haven't really stated your position clearly. Do YOU think Pace and Nagy should stay? And, if so, is that no matter what? 

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1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

Well, sure. That kind of goes along with it, right? If they're replaced, the big question then becomes; does the next GM try to salvage what good Pace HAS done, or is it a rebuild, trying to make the roster younger, and whatever else the new guy can think of. I would hope a retool is in order, but can understand if the (hypothetical) next guy wants to take it further than that.

But you haven't really stated your position clearly. Do YOU think Pace and Nagy should stay? And, if so, is that no matter what? 

My position is that without consistency in the NFL very very few teams ever win...I am not sure firing a HC who if he goes even 8-8 this season has never had a losing season is the best of ideas when we have no clear plan as to what comes next...if you know you are trading for a guy like McVey or Harbaugh is coming from college then fair enough...but right now who is the nailed on assistant who is going to want to come here? I don't see a ton of great options...sometimes the grass isn't always greener and tearing this team up right now puts us back to square one.

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13 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

My position is that without consistency in the NFL very very few teams ever win...I am not sure firing a HC who if he goes even 8-8 this season has never had a losing season is the best of ideas when we have no clear plan as to what comes next...if you know you are trading for a guy like McVey or Harbaugh is coming from college then fair enough...but right now who is the nailed on assistant who is going to want to come here? I don't see a ton of great options...sometimes the grass isn't always greener and tearing this team up right now puts us back to square one.

How do you build on what's happened the last three years without a new quarterback, though? You've admitted that Trubisky is lacking. 

Are you for firing Pace, but retaining Nagy? 

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34 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

How do you build on what's happened the last three years without a new quarterback, though? You've admitted that Trubisky is lacking. 

Are you for firing Pace, but retaining Nagy? 

No...I am keeping both and giving them another shot at a QB...I don't believe one failure makes a bad GM...Pace has had his failing but also a lot of successes.

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I hope Mitch throws for 400 yards and 5 TDs. 
 

I want chaos.

 

I would still fire Pace. Way too many offensive personnel issues and bad contracts handed out for me.

Nagy can earn his way back by continuing to show he has checked his ego and is going everything to win.

Mitch, I would try and bring back on a 1 year deal, but I want to see how they deal with this QB mess.

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1 hour ago, Madmike90 said:

No...I am keeping both and giving them another shot at a QB...I don't believe one failure makes a bad GM...Pace has had his failing but also a lot of successes.

Do you think that Pace would actually move on to another QB, though? He should have already. This next off-season will be different in that regard? Seriously?

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11 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

There have been some rumblings of how the Pack may be in a position to sit guys, but I don't see that happening

If Pack were 15-0, they wouldn’t sit starters if the game meant kicking the bears out of the playoffs 

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2 hours ago, Ty21 said:

If Pack were 15-0, they wouldn’t sit starters if the game meant kicking the bears out of the playoffs 

Being completely honest, if it were reversed and Chicago could sit people I would want to put my foot on GB's throat even if there was no chance of GB sneaking into the playoffs. Even if they are already eliminated and their roster is ravaged with injuries, I want a 40-point blowout to be the lasting memory of their season until opening day the next year.

 

That being said, if they have the same mentality and want to do that to us this year, I 100% understand that.

 

I'm a bitter Bears fan, I'm not a hypocrite though (that I know of at least?)

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1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

Being completely honest, if it were reversed and Chicago could sit people I would want to put my foot on GB's throat even if there was no chance of GB sneaking into the playoffs. Even if they are already eliminated and their roster is ravaged with injuries, I want a 40-point blowout to be the lasting memory of their season until opening day the next year.

 

That being said, if they have the same mentality and want to do that to us this year, I 100% understand that.

 

I'm a bitter Bears fan, I'm not a hypocrite though (that I know of at least?)

The goal should always be to beat the Packers as bad possible.  I don't care if we were 15-0 and had the 1st seed locked up 3 weeks ago and the PAckers were a 1-14 team .....start everyone and absolutely humiliate the Packers at every chance we get. 

Edited by JAF-N72EX
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15 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

The goal should always be to beat the Packers as bad possible.  I don't care if we were 15-0 and had the 1st seed locked up 3 weeks ago and the PAckers were a 1-14 team .....start everyone and absolutely humiliate the Packers at every chance we get. 

tenor.gif

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10 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

Do you think that Pace would actually move on to another QB, though? He should have already. This next off-season will be different in that regard? Seriously?

Of course he would...he tried to this offseason with Foles...again it didn't work out but he didn't just sit on his hands...he isn't stubborn...

I suspect with more draft capital this year he would happily draft a QB if the right guy is there.

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4 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

Of course he would...he tried to this offseason with Foles...again it didn't work out but he didn't just sit on his hands...he isn't stubborn...

I suspect with more draft capital this year he would happily draft a QB if the right guy is there.

Well, with Foles he was establishing a back-up plan in the unlikely (Pace's thinking) event that Mitch failed. If he was truly trying, he would have traded up and drafted Jordan Love, or at least taken Eason with one of the second round picks. If Pace does manage to stick around, and does pick a quarterback high, he very well could get it right this time. I'll certainly give you that. 

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