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Week 16 - Rams at Seahawks


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1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

We don't necessarily need an upgrade over Goff. We just need a guy who can protect the ball. Some mobility would also be nice to keep the defense on its toes. Wolford is mobile. Then, we just have to hope the running game and defense can step up.

I agree. I mentioned this in "Gen" but I remember when the Saints gave Brees his big contract and the team was literally a (7-9) team. Brees was playing behind a terrible OL and while he put up numbers it had no impact in the Saints winning. So much so till I started hearing Saints fans talk about cant wait till Brees contract get off the book and/or he just flat out retire. I was like nope all the Saints need to do is fix the OL and give the guy a running game. He cant win throwing 650+ times a season. The Saints traded Graham for Unger, picked up Warford from the Lions, drafted Ramczky, Armstead, and Peat then the Saints fixed their defense. They found Kamara and even Ingram who was a bust started to play better. Its not ironic the Saints went from going (7-9) four times in five seasons to now winning at 11+ games each of the last 4 seasons.

The Rams need to allow Goff to breath some in the pocket. He was pressured on 24 dropbacks against Seattle. Thats the most time in Goff career and the third most for Seattle since 2015. Goff two pro bowl seasons which was his best seasons other than Whitworth he had Rodger Saffold (a pro bowler and top 10 at his position) and a vet in Sullivan at center. Thats invaluable. We saw how Brady can look when he loses his best OL in Marpet. When the Saints have a piece or two missing on their OL my best friend who is a Saints fan immediately say if the Saints lose its because the OL was banged up. So I dont care what QB you have you need some protection. Even as dynamic of a QB Lamar is, his struggles this season people blamed it on Ronnie Stanley being out for the season and Marshal Yanda retiring before the season and we know Lamar can run. Goff cant run so he needs protection even more so. These last few games was indicative of not having Whitworth. We didnt see it two of the first 3 games he was out but the last 2 games we are seeing it big time. So even if we upgrade over Goff and we keep this same OL its only going to be the same issue, possibly worst just because the new QB wont have the same chemistry with Kupp and Woods and who is to say the new QB will pick up McVay offense as easily as Goff has.  

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2 hours ago, JonStark said:

It's more than on occasion though, that's the thing. People just find it easier to put it all on the QB. Bad playcalls happen just as frequently as Goff's bad plays if not more. Everyone freaking out about that interception is fine, but you also have to be equally as mad at not sneaking it on 4th and inches. 

We are not an "average QB" away from a Superbowl. 

Almost everyone besides diehard Goff supporters disagrees with this statement. 

Top 5 coach in the league. Top 3 defense in the league. Two best WR after the catch in the league. An average to slightly above average O-line. Playoff and Superbowl experience on the roster. This team has the ability to win the NFC when we Goff to play average to above average. When he plays less than that we lose games and are now facing the possibility of not making the playoffs.

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34 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

Almost everyone besides diehard Goff supporters disagrees with this statement. 

Top 5 coach in the league. Top 3 defense in the league. Two best WR after the catch in the league. An average to slightly above average O-line. Playoff and Superbowl experience on the roster. This team has the ability to win the NFC when we Goff to play average to above average. When he plays less than that we lose games and are now facing the possibility of not making the playoffs.

People are stupid. It's easier to put all the problems on the QB. The OL hasn't been above average since Whitworth's injury. It can't run block consistently, and the interior has been leaky in pass protection. Kupp and Woods are great at what they do, but our lack of deep threat has teams flooding the short and intermediate ranges with bodies. And McVay's in-game adjustments this year haven't been good. Our offense's issues don't start and end with Goff. He's part of the problem, but he's not THE problem.

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42 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

Top 5 coach in the league.

Is he? Right now I’d say no

And that’s the difference between what you are calling “diehard Goff supporters” and what I’m calling your group, the romantics. Those of you who honestly (and foolishly) believe that Goff is the only problem here.

And that’s what the real difference in the two groups here. We are saying “Goff isn’t the only problem” and you take that and say “you’re just making excuses, and it’s everyone else’s fault” which isn’t what we are saying at all. We have said Goff has been an issue at times this year, and very much so lately. But there are other significant issues with this team.

The fact that you are trying to play off this current offensive line as “average or slightly above”???! That is laughable. The RBs have been erratic at best, and MCVay has been questioned all season, and should have been more so. 

Again, we are saying there’s many problems here. While you’re denying that, and blaming it all on one player. Pretty obvious who really has their head in the sand

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5 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

People are stupid. It's easier to put all the problems on the QB. The OL hasn't been above average since Whitworth's injury. It can't run block consistently, and the interior has been leaky in pass protection. Kupp and Woods are great at what they do, but our lack of deep threat has teams flooding the short and intermediate ranges with bodies. And McVay's in-game adjustments this year haven't been good. Our offense's issues don't start and end with Goff. He's part of the problem, but he's not THE problem.

When you're the most important position in sports, you don't get the luxury of lumping your shortcomings in with inconsistency at other levels; especially on the O-line which is an issue for many teams. Probably one of the most injured position groups in the league. Tennesse lost their startin LT all season and are still ranked top 7 in most circles. Our O-line is likely 12-17 in the league right now. It's not bad and not worth pointing the finger at. Cam Akers averages 4.8 YPC and Henderson is 4.5 YPC. We rank 17th in a run block win rate of 70%. From a pass blocking perspective, Rams are ranked 8th with a 62% pass block win rate. 

The O-line, even with Noteboom, hasn't been great, but also really not that bad. Middle of the road is fine. When you have QB who steps up into the oncoming pass rush instead of evading it it makes your O-Line look worse. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings

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2 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Is he? Right now I’d say no

And that’s the difference between what you are calling “diehard Goff supporters” and what I’m calling your group, the romantics. Those of you who honestly (and foolishly) believe that Goff is the only problem here.

And that’s what the real difference in the two groups here. We are saying “Goff isn’t the only problem” and you take that and say “you’re just making excuses, and it’s everyone else’s fault” which isn’t what we are saying at all. We have said Goff has been an issue at times this year, and very much so lately. But there are other significant issues with this team.

The fact that you are trying to play off this current offensive line as “average or slightly above”???! That is laughable. The RBs have been erratic at best, and MCVay has been questioned all season, and should have been more so. 

Again, we are saying there’s many problems here. While you’re denying that, and blaming it all on one player. Pretty obvious who really has their head in the sand

We like to call ourselves "The Objectives", but I will circle back with our group and give you our feedback. In the meantime, we will be preparing to scream our heads off for Long Dong John Wolford next week. Cause I think this team can with with him regardless of all these shortcomings the Diehard Goff Supporters like to point out.

 

And I'm saying this team, as constructed, is pretty damn good and the "problems" you shelf equally next to Goff are really not that big of problems. They are common things many teams face(inconsistent play, better pass production, open MORE gaps for RB's). Go on any playoff teams forum and tell me they dont have "complaints" with their team; it's nitpicking done by fans. But if you take a step back and look at how good this team is, it's easy to see where a majority of the blame belongs. 

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7 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

When you're the most important position in sports, you don't get the luxury of lumping your shortcomings in with inconsistency at other levels; especially on the O-line which is an issue for many teams. Probably one of the most injured position groups in the league. Tennesse lost their startin LT all season and are still ranked top 7 in most circles. Our O-line is likely 12-17 in the league right now. It's not bad and not worth pointing the finger at. Cam Akers averages 4.8 YPC and Henderson is 4.5 YPC. We rank 17th in a run block win rate of 70%. From a pass blocking perspective, Rams are ranked 8th with a 62% pass block win rate. 

The O-line, even with Noteboom, hasn't been great, but also really not that bad. Middle of the road is fine. When you have QB who steps up into the oncoming pass rush instead of evading it it makes your O-Line look worse. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings

Let's put it this way. If QB is the most important position in sports, why does Goff get the blame when we lose but not the credit when we win? It's awfully odd that so many of you recognize that Goff isn't the only guy responsible for the offense's success when we win, but when we lose, you suddenly forget that. So don't talk to me about luxuries. I watched the game yesterday. I watched the Jets game last week. The OL sucked arse against the Jets until Quinnen got hurt. The interior was getting dominated.

I watched the game yesterday. The OL protected pretty well in the first half but didn't run block well. In the second half, it run blocked well at times but didn't protect Goff. Our interior OL hasn't been remotely consistent since Whitworth's injury. And if you watched the Seattle game closely, they were blanketing our WRs for most of the game. In yesterday's game, I can recall four plays that frustrated me from Goff: (1) the inexcusable INT, (2) the slide on 3rd down, (3) underthrowing the pass to Higbee that Adams nearly picked, and (4) throwing the ball behind Jefferson on the drag route. Beyond that, Goff simply didn't have anywhere to throw on a lot of plays. He converted a number of difficult third downs and spent a lot of the game moving to buy time.

Also, spare me the BS about the QB stepping up into the pass rush. That's just nonsense. That's how QBs are trained. You step up in the pocket to eliminate the edges. It's the interior OL's job to give you a lane from which you can climb the pocket. Trying to blame Goff for the interior OL not giving him a pocket is a great example of how everything is his fault. 

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2 hours ago, jrry32 said:

We don't necessarily need an upgrade over Goff. We just need a guy who can protect the ball. Some mobility would also be nice to keep the defense on its toes. Wolford is mobile. Then, we just have to hope the running game and defense can step up.

That’s already an upgrade 

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1 hour ago, BStanRamFan said:

Almost everyone besides diehard Goff supporters disagrees with this statement. 

Top 5 coach in the league. Top 3 defense in the league. Two best WR after the catch in the league. An average to slightly above average O-line. Playoff and Superbowl experience on the roster. This team has the ability to win the NFC when we Goff to play average to above average. When he plays less than that we lose games and are now facing the possibility of not making the playoffs.

OL has def not been above average. They are average at best 

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42 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Let's put it this way. If QB is the most important position in sports, why does Goff get the blame when we lose but not the credit when we win? It's awfully odd that so many of you recognize that Goff isn't the only guy responsible for the offense's success when we win, but when we lose, you suddenly forget that. So don't talk to me about luxuries. I watched the game yesterday. I watched the Jets game last week. The OL sucked arse against the Jets until Quinnen got hurt. The interior was getting dominated.

I watched the game yesterday. The OL protected pretty well in the first half but didn't run block well. In the second half, it run blocked well at times but didn't protect Goff. Our interior OL hasn't been remotely consistent since Whitworth's injury. And if you watched the Seattle game closely, they were blanketing our WRs for most of the game. In yesterday's game, I can recall four plays that frustrated me from Goff: (1) the inexcusable INT, (2) the slide on 3rd down, (3) underthrowing the pass to Higbee that Adams nearly picked, and (4) throwing the ball behind Jefferson on the drag route. Beyond that, Goff simply didn't have anywhere to throw on a lot of plays. He converted a number of difficult third downs and spent a lot of the game moving to buy time.

Also, spare me the BS about the QB stepping up into the pass rush. That's just nonsense. That's how QBs are trained. You step up in the pocket to eliminate the edges. It's the interior OL's job to give you a lane from which you can climb the pocket. Trying to blame Goff for the interior OL not giving him a pocket is a great example of how everything is his fault. 

This is true. A pocket passers worst nightmare is interior rush. It’s right in your face. Cant step up in that scenario 

have to move laterally 

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As for Goff, as long as everyone in here can agree that right now he is in that Top 18-20 range as a QB, then we will have a more clearer understanding of what everyone is saying. 
 

Goff supporters are saying it’s not ALL his fault. There are other things wrong with the offense as well. That’s true
 

Anti- Goffers are saying he’s not a franchise QB and he’s average at best. He’s not a top 10 QB to occasionally overcompensate for a teams weaknesses and put the team on his back to grind out a win. This is also true

Essentially both can be true. So there’s no point in arguing if we all agree on the above

For those of you using his contract to grade him, that’s bs. That’s the way the NFL works now so contracts are just a norm. But they shouldn’t be used to judge a QBs performance 

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21 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

That’s already an upgrade 

To some degree. But Wolford limits our offense in other respects. He's likely not an upgrade, but the rest of the team might step up and compensate if he's forced to play. And if he can avoid the back-breaking turnovers, it might be enough.

2 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

As for Goff, as long as everyone in here can agree that right now he is in that Top 18-20 range as a QB, then we will have a more clearer understanding of what everyone is saying. 
 

Goff supporters are saying it’s not ALL his fault. There are other things wrong with the offense as well. That’s true
 

Anti- Goffers are saying he’s not a franchise QB and he’s average at best. He’s not a top 10 QB to occasionally overcompensate for a teams weaknesses and put the team on his back to grind out a win. This is also true

Essentially both can be true. So there’s no point in arguing if we all agree on the above

For those of you using his contract to grade him, that’s bs. That’s the way the NFL works now so contracts are just a norm. But they shouldn’t be used to judge a QBs performance 

On the season as a whole, sure. In the games since the Bucs win, I wouldn't even have him in that range. He's been off. But our offense's problems are a lot bigger than Goff.

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6 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

Almost everyone besides diehard Goff supporters disagrees with this statement. 

Top 5 coach in the league. Top 3 defense in the league. Two best WR after the catch in the league. An average to slightly above average O-line. Playoff and Superbowl experience on the roster. This team has the ability to win the NFC when we Goff to play average to above average. When he plays less than that we lose games and are now facing the possibility of not making the playoffs.

I literally can't sum it up better than this post below. If that doesn't get through to some of you then I don't know what will. 

5 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Is he? Right now I’d say no

And that’s the difference between what you are calling “diehard Goff supporters” and what I’m calling your group, the romantics. Those of you who honestly (and foolishly) believe that Goff is the only problem here.

And that’s what the real difference in the two groups here. We are saying “Goff isn’t the only problem” and you take that and say “you’re just making excuses, and it’s everyone else’s fault” which isn’t what we are saying at all. We have said Goff has been an issue at times this year, and very much so lately. But there are other significant issues with this team.

The fact that you are trying to play off this current offensive line as “average or slightly above”???! That is laughable. The RBs have been erratic at best, and MCVay has been questioned all season, and should have been more so. 

Again, we are saying there’s many problems here. While you’re denying that, and blaming it all on one player. Pretty obvious who really has their head in the sand

 

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