Do you think Josh Allen is going to change how people view QB Development?

[bigbadbuff]

28 minutes ago, kramxel said:

3rd year is definitely do or die for every developmental type player.

This is being blown a little out of proportion. He's been very good, and he wasn't before, but all the talk was how he had no weapons around him, and I feel that, of all the developmental type young QBs, he was the one who was viewed in a positive manner for most people, so I don't see the huge narrative change people are seeing. 

 

What other QBs are you comparing him to? Like Daniel Jones, Haskins, Bortles etc? Or the Baker, and Darnold types?

[Raves]

I think it's more about needing to figure out why a QB is inaccurate to make a proper decision.  Is it bad accuracy in general, lack of offensive weapons, poor system fit, bad decision making, etc.  Allen seems to be more of a offensive weapons and decision making but with improved weapons he improved his decision making due to not needing to try and do too much.  For Tannehill it was probably more a bad system fit as he had some good weapons in Miami but it just never worked out, though in Tennessee relying more on the run with some good weapons at WR he's really started to look like the QB Miami hoped he would be.

[kramxel]

48 minutes ago, bigbadbuff said:

What other QBs are you comparing him to? Like Daniel Jones, Haskins, Bortles etc? Or the Baker, and Darnold types?

I'm not specifically mentioning any of them, but yes the conversation around here included all the young QBs that the jury was still out on, like Darnold, Haskins (not so much), Daniel Jones, Locker, and many others.

Guys like Baker which had already done something relevant, were in a different conversation, at least IMO. How consistent? How good? Can he keep it up? And all that sort of considerations.

Josh Allen was with the first bunch, and had a positive outlook from most people, as I recall it.

[Maxmw22]

I think it is an important note too that after Allen's rookie season the Bills signed 6 OL and drafted Cody Ford in the 2nd rd. They totally overhauled the OL and cast a wide net to make sure we had some competent talent. Only Dion Dawkins I think was held over previously.

 

We signed:

Mitch Morse, Jon Feliciano, Ty Nsehke, Quinton Spain, LaAdrian Waddle, and Spencer Long.

 

While not all of them worked out, we got a couple that did, sprinkle in some John Brown and Cole Beasley in place of Fat Kelvin and Zay Jones, and we have a vastly improved supporting cast.

 

Don't get me wrong I am extremely impressed with his work ethic and dedication (and humility) to work with Jordan Palmer and fix some mechanics. The fact that he was performing decently beforehand is a testament to  how far he has come and how far he can possibly still go.

[Sugashane]

On 12/25/2020 at 5:13 PM, Archimedes said:

You hit the nail on the head right here. He’s an EXTREME outlier. With that said, there’s no doubt in my mind that you’ll see multiple chasing their own “Josh Allen” over the next several years.

I think Lance and Ridder will be ones benefiting from this in April.

[Scoundrel]

Patience is a virtue 

[Scoundrel]

23 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I think Lance and Ridder will be ones benefiting from this in April.

Came here to say this 

[jrry32]

Spending a top 10 or 15 pick on a QB is a big investment. I'd rather err on the side of caution. Yeah, I'll miss out on a Josh Allen. But I'll also avoid the Jake Lockers of the world. So it wouldn't change how I evaluate QBs. With regard to QB development, I've never been a believer in the notion that a guy has to be great early or he'll never be great. It takes time for QBs to develop. Unless a guy just looks totally incompetent early, I'd give him a few years.

[Ty21]

This thread brought to you by Josh Rosen®

[LaFellSBXLIXMVP]

9 hours ago, Maxmw22 said:

I think it is an important note too that after Allen's rookie season the Bills signed 6 OL and drafted Cody Ford in the 2nd rd. They totally overhauled the OL and cast a wide net to make sure we had some competent talent. Only Dion Dawkins I think was held over previously.

 

We signed:

Mitch Morse, Jon Feliciano, Ty Nsehke, Quinton Spain, LaAdrian Waddle, and Spencer Long.

 

While not all of them worked out, we got a couple that did, sprinkle in some John Brown and Cole Beasley in place of Fat Kelvin and Zay Jones, and we have a vastly improved supporting cast.

 

Don't get me wrong I am extremely impressed with his work ethic and dedication (and humility) to work with Jordan Palmer and fix some mechanics. The fact that he was performing decently beforehand is a testament to  how far he has come and how far he can possibly still go.

I was going to talk about this. People need to praise the FO more. Bills gave up a bit on their D talent in order to help a QB that everyone could see that at least had all the athletic talent one could hope for in order to play QB in the NFL. They also brought in John brown whos not on his prime anymore but still contributed a lot to Allen development last year with one thousand yards. Then Beasley who I always dreamed of him playing for TB in NE. He seems he's a mix of welker and edelmen.He can get open at will and destroy zone schemes, which creates a lot more confidence and windows for the QB then they finally brought in a WR1 that can run and catch anything.

They build and he came. And I'm not taking anything away from Allen he's super talented, got a rocket launcher attached to his shoulder and he had the work ethic to improve a lot after each off season.  (Lamar OTOH stagnated this year) but Bills front office did a great job in recognizing the talent they had and going all in to help him.

Still, a lot of GMs/coaches out there still believe in letting the QB work miracles all by himself because of the outdated mentality of "D wins championships, O. wins games".

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

I hope teams will stop taking a talented player and expecting him to light it up without building around him.

I was never out on Josh Allen but with his oline and weapons he looks like a brand new player. Definitely sounds like a strong work ethic was a factor for his leap as well so maybe you need a guy who knows it’s not always going to be easy like it might have been in college 

[VanS]

On 12/25/2020 at 10:06 PM, Chiefer said:

Wheres that guy who was saying Josh Allen was a top 5 QB earlier this year? 
 

I said Josh Allen was a top 5 qb LAST YEAR.  I noted that it wasn't fully reflected yet on the stat sheet because the talent around him on offense wasn't very good.  I said once the talent around him improved (i.e. the addition Stefon Diggs, drafting Gabriel Davis, o-line growing with continuity) he his talent level as an elite QB would begin to be reflect itself in the box score.  And this year it has.  He's statistically become the elite QB I always knew he was.

FTR I believe Josh Allen is currently the best QB in the NFL.  Better than both Rodgers and Mahomes.  He might not be the MVP this year but if there was a game I needed to win next week he would be the first QB I would select. 

 

[VanS]

On 12/25/2020 at 8:44 AM, CP3MVP said:

Allen had terrible accuracy in HS, terrible accuracy in college and was terrible his first 2 seasons.

This is where you are wrong.  Josh Allen did not have terrible accuracy in his first 2 years or in college.  I actually watched his tape rather than just looking at the box score.  The guy had poor talent around him in Wyoming and during his first 2 years in the league.  This is probably the first year in his life he has a great supporting cast around him hence the huge increase in production.

If you actually watched Josh Allen closely you would know something like this was coming.  I literally spent months on here predicting it would happen.

FTR none of us have most likely watched tape of Josh Allen from high school so I have no idea how you would know whether his accuracy was terrible.  I hope you understand stats don't tell the full story.  Its the reason scouts watch tape rather than drafting players based on their stats. 

[Chiefer]

23 minutes ago, VanS said:

I said Josh Allen was a top 5 qb LAST YEAR.  I noted that it wasn't fully reflected yet on the stat sheet because the talent around him on offense wasn't very good.  I said once the talent around him improved (i.e. the addition Stefon Diggs, drafting Gabriel Davis, o-line growing with continuity) he his talent level as an elite QB would begin to be reflect itself in the box score.  And this year it has.  He's statistically become the elite QB I always knew he was.

FTR I believe Josh Allen is currently the best QB in the NFL.  Better than both Rodgers and Mahomes.  He might not be the MVP this year but if there was a game I needed to win next week he would be the first QB I would select. 

 

He’s not better than Mahomes/Rodgers 

he’s well on his way though. 
 

Even after Mahomes post season run, or the winning streak this year, you’d still take Josh over him. That’s dedication bro I give you props for that.

[The BILLievers]

The people that say Josh Allen was terrible last season (2019) just didn't watch many Bills games. Yes he looked terrible at times but if you watched the Bills you saw flashes of what is coming out this year. 

From 2018 to 2019 he improved his :

• Accuracy by 6%
• TD to INT ratio from : 
  • 10 TDs to 12 INTs in 2018
  • 20 TDs to 9 INTs in 2019.
• Passer rating from 67.9 to 85.3

They are not drastic improvements but it shows a player that is progressing and actually making strides to get better. Then you compound this year and the improvements tripled. Also, people forget everyone labeled Josh Allen the most raw, boom or bust player in the draft...well a raw player isn't going to be a super star on day 1 so we're seeing him grow.

I'd put the below reasons why we have year 3 Josh Allen :

• Recognizing defenses pre snap. Years 1 and 2 all defenses would do is blitz him; Allen would go to his first read then run out of the pocket. Now he knows what he's seeing and switching up plays/calls at the line.
• Signing WRs who can create separation. He was never great at throwing a WR open...but his arm is such a rocket that he can wait to see a WR open and then rifle it in there. Diggs, Beasley and John Brown are all WRs who create separation. 
• Fixing his mechanics. In an ESPN segment a couple weeks ago he said he changed his motion. Went from throwing with his upper body to now using his feet and hips to come across before his shoulder/arm.
• OL that can block
• Daboll knowing exactly what the defense struggles with and exploiting it.

I understand people won't call him a top 5 QB yet but typically when you see a QB improve year 1 to year 2, then year 2 to year 3, that trajectory stays consistent.