TheKillerNacho Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 Just now, incognito_man said: it's certainly superior to a single h2h comparison considering that's already accounted for. I don't understand why anyone would prefer to use a far, far, FAR less complete dataset when an obviously superior one is free and available and in front of them. It's a metric. It weights certain aspects of the game over others and chugs out a number for each team. However, the actual weight of the hard data is both hidden from the end user and highly debatable from person to person. Fact is, football is just way too complex of a game to boil down to any single number or metric. You can't expect to shove down a single metric someone claiming it proves something that is CLEARLY not reality and expect it to convince anyone. By all means, though, let's cancel the playoffs and just give the Lombardi to whoever leads the league in DVOA lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: It's a metric. It weights certain aspects of the game over others and chugs out a number for each team. However, the actual weight of the hard data is both hidden from the end user and highly debatable from person to person. Fact is, football is just way too complex of a game to boil down to any single number or metric. You can't expect to shove down a single metric someone claiming it proves something that is CLEARLY not reality and expect it to convince anyone. By all means, though, let's cancel the playoffs and just give the Lombardi to whoever leads the league in DVOA lol. None of this makes much sense. You seem sensitive about it. DVOA is clearly better than a tiny fraction/subset of data that is already included in it. I dunno how anyone could even argue to the contrary. It's the best/most complete metric available. I'm sorry it doesn't align with what you want it to say. Edited December 28, 2020 by incognito_man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 Just now, incognito_man said: None of this makes much sense. You seem sensitive about it. DVOA is clearly better than a tiny fraction/subset of data that is already included in it. I dunno how anyone could even argue to the contrary. It's the best/most complete metric available. I'm sorry it doesn't align with what you want it to say. You're the one attempting to use DVOA as some word of law and getting upset when people don't accept it as fact lol. like, I'm done. use dvoa all you want - I think it's a neat number to look at too. just don't expect for anyone to actually take you seriously attempting to use it. Frankly this conversation convinced me more that DVOA isn't as great as a metric as I thought it was rather than the NFC is in any way superior to the AFC, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: You're the one attempting to use DVOA as some word of law and getting upset when people don't accept it as fact lol. like, I'm done. use dvoa all you want - I think it's a neat number to look at too. just don't expect for anyone to actually take you seriously attempting to use it. Frankly this conversation convinced me more that DVOA isn't as great as a metric as I thought it was rather than the NFC is in any way superior to the AFC, lol. thank you for permission to use it and for letting me know you are done. You have my permission to use a tiny fraction of the data to form your opinions as well. Lead a horse to water and all that. I suppose we should just look at h2h record and aware the Lombardi, no need to play the game lolololozzzlol (how clever of me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, incognito_man said: thank you for permission to use it and for letting me know you are done. You have my permission to use a tiny fraction of the data to form your opinions as well. Lead a horse to water and all that. I suppose we should just look at h2h record and aware the Lombardi, no need to play the game lolololozzzlol (how clever of me) not just h2h lmao. virtually every stat tracked by the NFL favors the AFC, boss. you're clinging to a single efficiency metric. I pointed out the inter conference records to show just how obvious and indisputable the disparity was between the two conferences, considering your argument that the reason that the NFC appears weaker was that the AFC was more top/bottom heavy but that the top of each conference favored the NFC... which is laughable. and no, a game should be played to determine who wins the Lombardi. Just as they were played to produce each team's win/loss record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: not just h2h lmao. virtually every stat tracked by the NFL favors the AFC, boss what else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 I don't think we need "metrics" or data to determine which conference is better this year. It seems pretty obvious. An 8-8 team may make a wildcard in the NFC this year and if they do they may be 2 games better than another NFC postseason team. The top 4 vs top 4 (what really matters) is pretty close. The bottom 4 may even be better than the AFC. The middle 8 in the AFC are far superior to the NFC though.So unless you weigh the bottom 4 really really high it isn't close. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 4 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: The middle 8 in the AFC are far superior to the NFC though. But they're not. See my link above that goes through all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 10 minutes ago, incognito_man said: But they're not. See my link above that goes through all of this. Don't need analysis just look at the teams: Washington Dallas NY Giants Chicago (Maybe above average) Minnesota Carolina Arizona (Above Average) LA Rams ( Clearly above average) Vs. Miami ( Clearly Above average) New England Cleveland (Above average) Tennessee ( Clearly Above average) Indianapolis ( Clearly above average) Las Vegas LA Chargers Denver Broncos You already said the NFCE was bad and that makes up 3/8 of the NFC group. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Don't need analysis just look at the teams: Washington Dallas NY Giants Chicago (Maybe above average) Minnesota Carolina Arizona (Above Average) LA Rams ( Clearly above average) Vs. Miami ( Clearly Above average) New England Cleveland (Above average) Tennessee ( Clearly Above average) Indianapolis ( Clearly above average) Las Vegas LA Chargers Denver Broncos You already said the NFCE was bad and that makes up 3/8 of the NFC group. Middle 8 of each conference by DVOA (prior to this weekend): SEA (9), ARI (13), SF (14), CHI (15), WAS (16), CAR (17), MIN (18), ATL (20) - AVG: 15.25 BAL (10), MIA (11), TEN (12), CLE (19), NE (21), LV (22), HOU (23), LAC (28) - AVG: 18.25 Top 4 of each conference by DVOA: NO (1), TB (2), GB (4), LAR (6) - AVG: 3.25 KC (3), PIT (5), BUF (7), IND (8) - AVG: 5.75 Bottom 4 of each conference: DAL (25), DET (26), PHI (27), NYG (28) - AVG: 26.5 CIN (29), DEN (30), JAX (31), NYJ (32) - AVG: 30.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Middle 8 of each conference by DVOA (prior to this weekend): SEA (9), ARI (13), SF (14), CHI (15), WAS (16), CAR (17), MIN (18), ATL (20) - AVG: 15.25 BAL (10), MIA (11), TEN (12), CLE (19), NE (21), LV (22), HOU (23), LAC (28) - AVG: 18.25 Top 4 of each conference by DVOA: NO (1), TB (2), GB (4), LAR (6) - AVG: 3.25 KC (3), PIT (5), BUF (7), IND (8) - AVG: 5.75 Bottom 4 of each conference: DAL (25), DET (26), PHI (27), NYG (28) - AVG: 26.5 CIN (29), DEN (30), JAX (31), NYJ (32) - AVG: 30.5 Well Seattle isn't behind the Rams this week or prior to I don't care what metric you use. It just shows how it is wrong. GB/NO/SEA/TB are the top 4 teams. Rams could have been switched with TB prior to this week but certainly not SEA. In the AFC the best teams currently are KC/BUF/Balt/Pitt You can't use a metric to defend a position by using the metric as proof that the metric is an accurate metric. Throw some obvious knowledge in there and see if the metric supports it. Washington (who lost to Cleveland) is 4 fewer wins and was 3 spots up on them? C'mon. 4 win Atlanta is right behind Cleveland? C'mon. You have to be aware of the flaws in the system and yet still use it as concrete evidence of something? You believe TB is better than KC? Rams better than Buffalo? Edited December 29, 2020 by Thomas5737 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted December 29, 2020 Author Share Posted December 29, 2020 20 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Well Seattle isn't behind the Rams this week or prior to I don't care what metric you use. It just shows how it is wrong. GB/NO/SEA/TB are the top 4 teams. Rams could have been switched with TB prior to this week but certainly not SEA. In the AFC the best teams currently are KC/BUF/Balt/Pitt You can't use a metric to defend a position by using the metric as proof that the metric is an accurate metric. Throw some obvious knowledge in there and see if the metric supports it. Washington (who lost to Cleveland) is 4 fewer wins and was 3 spots up on them? C'mon. 4 win Atlanta is right behind Cleveland? C'mon. You have to be aware of the flaws in the system and yet still use it as concrete evidence of something? You believe TB is better than KC? Rams better than Buffalo? you know he's just going to reply "BuT dOvA tHo" lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 1 hour ago, incognito_man said: Middle 8 of each conference by DVOA (prior to this weekend): SEA (9), ARI (13), SF (14), CHI (15), WAS (16), CAR (17), MIN (18), ATL (20) - AVG: 15.25 BAL (10), MIA (11), TEN (12), CLE (19), NE (21), LV (22), HOU (23), LAC (28) - AVG: 18.25 Any stat that puts the Texans in the middle eight needs to be thrown away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 1 minute ago, TheKillerNacho said: you know he's just going to reply "BuT dOvA tHo" lol you're a mod? yikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted December 29, 2020 Author Share Posted December 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, incognito_man said: you're a mod? yikes by all means complain to webby if you feel my posts are inappropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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