What to do at QB?

[AnAngryAmerican]

After reading through some of the discussion in the GDT, I was replying but then I decided this was worthy of its own topic. 

It's pretty straight forward - what should we do at QB?

The way I see it there are four options  - keep Drew as the starter, bring in a journeyman veteran like Tyrod Taylor or Ryan Fitzpatick to compete with him and may the best man win, draft a rookie in the first round even with a trade up, or trade for a veteran starter like Matthew Stafford, Matt Ryan or Carson Wentz, who can be the guy from day 1 and Drew  can serve as his backup until his contract runs out. 

I've been saying this for a while but the veteran journeyman route to me seems a total waste.

What good does bringing in Tyrod Taylor or Ryan Fitzpatrick do? Now, I like both as premier backups, good for 2-3 week window of starts when the No. 1 gets a minor injury. But going into next year with one of them and Lock, what good does that do us? Fangio, coaching for his job, will start to safe, reliable, albeit unspectacular vet, ending Lock's career here. So 2021 becomes an entirely wasted season; Tyrod/Fitz certainly isn't the long-term answer and we've flushed whatever chance we would have with Drew away. 

Another option would be to try to land an established vet like Stafford, Ryan or even Wentz. I'd be all for it, depending only slightly upon the price. Lock is then your backup for the next two years under his rookie deal. We get healthier, the young offensive players grow and develop and we add some pieces in the draft and free agency to the current roster and then our capable, veteran QB can lead us to being a regular fixture in the playoffs, even if never a legit Super Bowl contender (i.e. we're the Broncos under Plummer/Griese in the early 2000s).  

The first round rookie is a roll of the dice. After Lawrence, who we won't get, I don't really like any of the others projected to be the first round. All have some flaws that raise red flags, just like Lock had (and still has). So, if we go the rookie route there can't be any camp competition between he and Lock; the rookie has to be the guy from day 1 come hell or high water. This also constitutes a total reset. As we all know, there is very likely to be a new owner and thus at least a partial cleaning of house, how much does a rookie QB change any of that? Maybe we get the next Justin Herbet. But maybe we get the next Dwayne Haskins. Or maybe we get the next ... Drew Lock. 

The other option is to move forward for one more year with Drew. Has Drew shown flashes? Yes. Or both greatness and, more frequently, outright ineptitude. I, for one, am willing to give him another year with some continuity, health, a real offseason, an improved group around him. There is little to show that he is the long-term answer but the nonstop carousel of QBs for this team, at some point has to stop. I see no harm in giving Drew another year because, if he doesn't legit prove himself, the whole thing is almost certainly getting blown up in 2022 any way. 

My choices, ranked: 

1. Established Vet (Stafford or Ryan, could live with Wentz)

2. Stick with Drew

3. Roll the dice on a rookie

4. Journeyman vet

What's say you?

[BroncoBruin]

The “right” thing to do is give Lock another year with a real offseason and the same OC and supporting cast and hope he grows into a good QB. He WILL improve, the question is how much.

But does that maximize this team’s chances of winning in a must-win year? Unequivocally no. It would be a pretty huge leap of faith for Fangio and Elway to bet on Lock if they can get an instant upgrade.  My preference is a Stafford trade to maximize the young offensive talent and try to make a playoff run next year. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by BroncoBruin

[germ-x]

Lock will improve,  but even then I think his peak is Derek Carr-esque.  Carr is a solid starting QB, but with me thinking at his best he’s Derek Carr then I believe Elway needs to make a move for someone more experienced and markedly better now or roll the dice on a top 5-10 pick in the draft, even if that requires a trade up.

This franchise is going nowhere without a QB.  Lock I believe will have 18 starts under him going into the offseason and in those 18 he’s been underwhelming in 80-90% of them.  

[Cutler06]

Dwayne Haskins was just released by WAS, has experience in Shurmer's system....just sayin'

[AKRNA]

1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

The “right” thing to do is give Lock another year with a real offseason and the same OC and supporting cast and hope he grows into a good QB. He WILL improve, the question is how much.

But does that maximize this team’s chances of winning in a must-win year? Unequivocally no. It would be a pretty huge leap of faith for Fangio and Elway to bet on Lock if they can get an instant upgrade.  My preference is a Stafford trade to maximize the young offensive talent and try to make a playoff run next year. 

I think that is the right thing to do and also what they will do. I think they'll add a twist though, that being a veteran QB in the QB room. That would give us a reliable back up and also a mentor for Lock. I think Fitz would fill that bill quite well.

Even if we draft a 1st rounder I'd still bring in Fitz for primarily the same reasons.

[thebestever6]

12 minutes ago, germ-x said:

Lock will improve,  but even then I think his peak is Derek Carr-esque.  Carr is a solid starting QB, but with me thinking at his best he’s Derek Carr then I believe Elway needs to make a move for someone more experienced and markedly better now or roll the dice on a top 5-10 pick in the draft, even if that requires a trade up.

This franchise is going nowhere without a QB.  Lock I believe will have 18 starts under him going into the offseason and in those 18 he’s been underwhelming in 80-90% of them.  

I disagree his Qbr has been over 50 a majority of the games our running game has been largely inconsistent, our number 1 wr has been out, Hamler has been out a majority of the time. 

I mean look at the division games first game against the. Chiefs and Chargers you got to put up 30 to win.

I don't get why Darnold gets a pass for lack of supporting cast even tho he's been marginal at best since entering the league.

I'm curious to wonder in hindsight if Elway knew the pandemic was coming does he can Scangs?

. 

 

[thebestever6]

House about minshew had some of the grit that fitzpatrick has. And may be able to compete to make Lock better,? Thought he's Been solid for the jags

[champ11]

12 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I disagree his Qbr has been over 50 a majority of the games our running game has been largely inconsistent, our number 1 wr has been out, Hamler has been out a majority of the time. 

I mean look at the division games first game against the. Chiefs and Chargers you got to put up 30 to win.

I don't get why Darnold gets a pass for lack of supporting cast even tho he's been marginal at best since entering the league.

I'm curious to wonder in hindsight if Elway knew the pandemic was coming does he can Scangs?

. 

 

he'd 27th in the NFL in QBR - https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr - in front of Wentz, Foles, Newton, Mullens, Darnold. I think Lock's supporting cast has been quite solid. Best our OL has played in years. But of undoubtedly a tough year with no offseason, a bunch of rookies, new OC. but either way I think the "surrounding cast" stuff is a lot of noise. people use it to fit their narratives. i don't think Drew is a very good QB at this point and I really don't think he has flashed much high level talent at all. that does not mean he can't improve to being an okay QB in the NFL. but I don't think his potential is nearly as high as some have hoped.

i need to dig into the QB prospects before having my opinion. but if we do end up getting a top 10 or so pick and avoid taking a QB again...that would be disappointing to me without having the context of the situation. i want an elite talent at that position. you have a high draft pick. go get it ... (ideally)

 

[jsthomp2007]

I like the Wentz option if Wentz can re-work his contract.  I would keep Lock too, and make them compete.  They both have issues, and I would see who can work through their issues first.  

The only journeyman I would go for would be Tryod, because everyone who backs up for him winds up being a quality starter.  Josh Allen, Bakerfield, Herbert...in which case go sign Tyrod, draft Zach Wilson, and just wait.  

[thebestever6]

40 minutes ago, champ11 said:

he'd 27th in the NFL in QBR - https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr - in front of Wentz, Foles, Newton, Mullens, Darnold. I think Lock's supporting cast has been quite solid. Best our OL has played in years. But of undoubtedly a tough year with no offseason, a bunch of rookies, new OC. but either way I think the "surrounding cast" stuff is a lot of noise. people use it to fit their narratives. i don't think Drew is a very good QB at this point and I really don't think he has flashed much high level talent at all. that does not mean he can't improve to being an okay QB in the NFL. but I don't think his potential is nearly as high as some have hoped.

i need to dig into the QB prospects before having my opinion. but if we do end up getting a top 10 or so pick and avoid taking a QB again...that would be disappointing to me without having the context of the situation. i want an elite talent at that position. you have a high draft pick. go get it ... (ideally)

 

I'm not in no way shape or form trying to make excuses for Lock. He literally is jeckle and hyde at QB this year. 6 out of the 12 games he started he's had a Qbr of over 60 which I'll take all day with a young nucleus around him and tim patrick coming out of no where.

The other 6 games it's been pretty bad I don't count the pittsburgh game bc he literally had one drive. So 6/11 games he's been adequate if you do a game by game breakdown.

 

I really think it's a moot point to generally upgrade the qb position starter wise. Sure, I expect a vet brought in Driskel was a complete joke.

 

[broncosfan_101]

I’ve said it before, but I think I like Andy Dalton best. He threads the needle pretty well between raising the floor and maintaining the current ceiling of the offence. 
 

A few other thoughts. The talk for a few months has been, ‘which teams will line up for Darnold when NYJ takes Lawrence?’ What about Drew Lock? What would the market look like for him? He doesn’t have the upside of Darnold, but I also don’t think he’s nearly as “damaged” in the eyes of evaluators. Plus, he’s got an extra cheap year on his contract. Would PIT be interested? The Saints? Would a team like Indy try to sign Fitz/Dalton as the now guy, and trade a 4th for Lock as the future? Turning a 2019 2nd rounder into a 2021 4th might be looked at poorly, but another year like this and Lock’s worth nothing. If you can get a 4th, it could be the right time to hedge. 
 

Also. A lot of people are (rightly) saying that Vic/Elway are heading into a make-or-break season, and are making the connection that this will be must-win 2021. But what if there’s another way forward? What if they don’t necessarily go for the must-win season, but they go for the ‘here is the tangible path towards 2022 being the year we get back to the playoffs’? What if that path is trading up for Zach Wilson, and hoping you’ve got a Justin Herbert type player? If that’s the play, you’re in a situation much like LAC, where the results this year don’t matter nearly as much as the process. I don’t know, it could be a way to buy themselves another year. 

[broncosfan_101]

14 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I'm not in no way shape or form trying to make excuses for Lock. He literally is jeckle and hyde at QB this year. 6 out of the 12 games he started he's had a Qbr of over 60 which I'll take all day with a young nucleus around him and tim patrick coming out of no where.

The other 6 games it's been pretty bad I don't count the pittsburgh game bc he literally had one drive. So 6/11 games he's been adequate if you do a game by game breakdown.

A QBR of 60 is fine. If those are his good games, man, we’ve gotta shoot higher. 

[bMiller031]

Allbright had an interesting AMA hour on Twitter and said, from what he’s hearing, it’s likely Lock + a vet FA signing. The vets he listed were Minshew (who I like), Foles, and Dalton.  If Darnold is available, which is a big TBD now, the FO will be all over that but trading for other established starters (Stafford and Ryan) will be cost prohibitive (both as a cap figure and trade comp) and is unlikely. Apparently the FO (like many on here) don’t see any of the QBs besides Lawrence as day one rookie starters.

[thebestever6]

8 minutes ago, broncosfan_101 said:

A QBR of 60 is fine. If those are his good games, man, we’ve gotta shoot higher. 

I mean big Ben has a Qbr of 60 I think Goff is at a 60 and Cousins Is at a 62 Burrow was at a 56 for the year.

And those are guys who are either A making 30 million per year, or in Burrows case are considered the Guy. 

Lock does have to get more consistent no doubt about it as does the rest of the offense. I think Lock has the highest drop rate of passes besides Wentz at 9.5 %. 

I personally don't think the offense has looked right all year minus the Miami and Jets game where the run Game was well established.

[thebestever6]

I'm sorry I personally would rather draft a young guy or let Lock take his lumps then drag into the playoffs with an Andy Dalton or a Nick Foles because if we're being completely honest with ourselves those teams would have no ceiling.