What to do at QB?

[jsthomp2007]

2 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

While I agree with you that it does not have to be either/or, I think the beef from Broncos County comes from the fact that going with Teddy gives us nothing, neither short-term or long-term. 

There is a chance, albeit a very, very small one, that a team can win a Super Bowl with a game-manager surrounded by an elite roster. It also takes a very good HC and coaching staff, which we had in Gary, and which the 49ers had in your example. Do we have an elite coaching staff? I see a clown car driven by Vic with Shurmur in the passenger seat and Paton and Ellis in the back holding on for dear life; at least Ellis has the opportunity to exit the vehicle with a golden parachute next March. 

Furthermore, poor as Peyton's physical play (relative to the rest of his career, that is) may have been in 2015, his mind was as good or better than ever. Teddy is a football savvy dude, no argument there, but he's not Peyton freaking Manning.  I know we have some on this forum that think Teddy has All-Pro potential and we have a HC who just compared his pocket presence to Tom Brady. But I'm not ready to go there. 

The problem really is - we have a GM who learned average QB + good roster + experienced coaches = job security. Can't fire a guy if he consistently fields a winning roster. But how many rings does Paton have? How many does his mentor and former boss, Rick Spielman, have? How many does Vic have? How about Shurmur? ZERO. 

You have to go all the way down the coaching staff list to Ed Donatell (DC in name only) to find a coach on the staff that has a ring.

So what's the point? Are we going to be happy to be in mediocrity or are we going to take the Shanahan example - the Mike and Kyle versions - and swing for the fences (Mike throwing out the reliable Plummer for Cutler and Kyle throwing out the reliable Garappolo for Lance)? It appears the former. Welcome to being the Minnesota Vikings, gents, usually good, rarely bad, but never a champion. 

How many rings does McDaniels have now? five or six of them.  Should have kept him around. 

[grizmo78]

2 hours ago, broncofan48 said:

Who is this Jenkins you speak of?   Haven't had a chance to watch anything but highlights so would enjoy checking it out

Here's a link to his page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZvBu8syAHQ1sySTn17VKiQ

He usually does a reaction video pretty soon after the game, then posts a more detailed breakdown a couple days later after he has all-22 film. 

[AkronsWitness]

5 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

Fangio and his staff deserve a ton of credit for the team’s depth. Guys are developing everywhere. 

Besides Special Teams, which still might be last in the NFL in coverage units lol The amount of field position this team gives up uner Tom McMahon is astounding 

[AKRNA]

6 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Besides Special Teams, which still might be last in the NFL in coverage units lol The amount of field position this team gives up uner Tom McMahon is astounding 

You got me curious so I did what 70 year old retired engineers do, research. I can't find a positive post you've ever made. 

So, more research. It looks to me like you fit the classic version of an internet troll. Fess up now, come clean. Just admit it and you'll sleep better. I'm sure Ohio teams would welcome you back, or not. You're definitely not a Bronco fan so why post on this forum?

[lomaxgrUK]

14 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

While I agree with you that it does not have to be either/or, I think the beef from Broncos County comes from the fact that going with Teddy gives us nothing, neither short-term or long-term. 

There is a chance, albeit a very, very small one, that a team can win a Super Bowl with a game-manager surrounded by an elite roster. It also takes a very good HC and coaching staff, which we had in Gary, and which the 49ers had in your example. Do we have an elite coaching staff? I see a clown car driven by Vic with Shurmur in the passenger seat and Paton and Ellis in the back holding on for dear life; at least Ellis has the opportunity to exit the vehicle with a golden parachute next March. 

I think there is a fair amount of exaggeration here. Teddy doesn't give us "nothing". He can win in the NFL; he's proven that. I totally get that he isn't capable of winning games by himself. But he deserves more respect than to say he doesn't bring the potential to win.

I also don't agree that Vic is driving a clown show. This team is incredibly well Coached on Defense. In fact, they may be the best Coached Defense in the entire league, and I mean that. Just look at what Vic got out of that depleted Defense last year against the best Offenses in the league (especially the Chiefs x2). 

Vic definitely sucks at the Head Coach stuff in game. But, so did Gary Kubiak. There were many people in here wanting his head for his Challenge and timeout usage. You can still be a good Head Coach despite sucking at calling timeouts and knowing when to Challenge. 

14 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

The problem really is - we have a GM who learned average QB + good roster + experienced coaches = job security. Can't fire a guy if he consistently fields a winning roster. But how many rings does Paton have? How many does his mentor and former boss, Rick Spielman, have? How many does Vic have? How about Shurmur? ZERO. 

You have to go all the way down the coaching staff list to Ed Donatell (DC in name only) to find a coach on the staff that has a ring.

So what's the point? Are we going to be happy to be in mediocrity or are we going to take the Shanahan example - the Mike and Kyle versions - and swing for the fences (Mike throwing out the reliable Plummer for Cutler and Kyle throwing out the reliable Garappolo for Lance)? It appears the former. Welcome to being the Minnesota Vikings, gents, usually good, rarely bad, but never a champion. 

So what exactly is your suggestion for a GM and Head Coach? You're basically saying because they don't rings, they are of no use. Josh McDaniels had ring(s); was his winning experience of any use?

Andy Reid was known as a perennial playoff loser before Patrick Mahomes turned up. Actually, the Chiefs are a great example of how breeding a winning culture can lead to a Franchise turning around. The Chiefs, if you remember, were lead for a good amount of time by Alex Smith.

Would you say Alex Smith's career prior to KC was THAT dissimilar to Teddy's? I wouldn't. Would you agree that for his entire career, Smith was also called a game manager, that can't win by himself? I would. 

How do we know that the plan isn't to build a quality roster, whilst still trying to find that young franchise QB each year without forcing the issue, just like the Chiefs did? 

You talk about swinging for the fence like eventually it comes good. Go tell that to Lions and Browns fans. If someone asked me which team I'd rather have supported over the last 10 years, I would take the Vikings over Lions/Browns 1,000 times out of a 1,000.

 

 

[broncos67]

17 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

With Paton, nothing would surprise me at this point. 

How the hell do you have anywhere near enough info to make an assessment on Paton? He had a damn good draft, reports are that a lot of trust that was lost from nickel and diming players has been earned back with the Simmons/Shelby signings, he's well-regarded as exceptional in identifying talent. Working under Rick Spielman doesn't mean he IS Rick Spielman. He hasn't even had the opportunity to hire his own HC.

[broncos67]

3 hours ago, AKRNA said:

You got me curious so I did what 70 year old retired engineers do, research. I can't find a positive post you've ever made. 

So, more research. It looks to me like you fit the classic version of an internet troll. Fess up now, come clean. Just admit it and you'll sleep better. I'm sure Ohio teams would welcome you back, or not. You're definitely not a Bronco fan so why post on this forum?

He's not wrong about special teams though. It's by far the weakest part of our team from a coaching standpoint and has been for some time. I have zero idea how McMahon still has a job except he's a good 'ol boy. Vic finally called out the garbage ST play for what it is.

[lomaxgrUK]

10 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

He's not wrong about special teams though. It's by far the weakest part of our team from a coaching standpoint and has been for some time. I have zero idea how McMahon still has a job except he's a good 'ol boy. Vic finally called out the garbage ST play for what it is.

I noticed Josh Watson got cut yesterday. He had two awful plays on kickoff coverage vs Seattle. Shows how important ST play is for bubble players.

Edited August 25, 2021 by lomaxgrUK

[champ11]

14 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

He's not wrong about special teams though. It's by far the weakest part of our team from a coaching standpoint and has been for some time. I have zero idea how McMahon still has a job except he's a good 'ol boy. Vic finally called out the garbage ST play for what it is.

Those are the things that need to tighten up for us. Obviously we are short the QB - so the in game coaching and special teams really need to improve for us to be that playoff contending team. 

[The Helicopter]

Could be smart to start the season with Teddy B. Probably less boo-birds and media chatter over a QB-change. Then, if he gets hurt or plays poorly we can switch to Lock.

If we start with Lock, he'll be on such a short leash...

[champ11]

18 minutes ago, The Helicopter said:

Could be smart to start the season with Teddy B. Probably less boo-birds and media chatter over a QB-change. Then, if he gets hurt or plays poorly we can switch to Lock.

If we start with Lock, he'll be on such a short leash...

I actually think the opposite. The majority of the fanbase wants Lock. So if Teddy plays poorly / we lose games the noise is going to be insane. If Teddy wins and plays well those first few I would expect everyone to get on board pretty quickly

[lomaxgrUK]

1 hour ago, champ11 said:

I actually think the opposite. The majority of the fanbase wants Lock. So if Teddy plays poorly / we lose games the noise is going to be insane. If Teddy wins and plays well those first few I would expect everyone to get on board pretty quickly

But smart teams don't make decisions based on what the fans want. At the end of the day, if Teddy plays poorly early in the season then that's on him.

We can't risk putting out the worse QB (in the eyes of the Coaching staff) just so that we can tell fans, "hey look guys - your QB is rubbish so its now ok to play our #1 choice".

After the draft, I personally wanted Drew to play so we could truly find out what we have with him. I've changed my stance on that, because I think this team is better than I gave it credit for after the draft. I think this team can win football games, and so we need the best QB out there. Therefore, I am happy with Teddy being the starter if that is who the Coaching staff deem as the best guy to do that.

[champ11]

30 minutes ago, lomaxgrUK said:

But smart teams don't make decisions based on what the fans want. At the end of the day, if Teddy plays poorly early in the season then that's on him.

We can't risk putting out the worse QB (in the eyes of the Coaching staff) just so that we can tell fans, "hey look guys - your QB is rubbish so its now ok to play our #1 choice".

After the draft, I personally wanted Drew to play so we could truly find out what we have with him. I've changed my stance on that, because I think this team is better than I gave it credit for after the draft. I think this team can win football games, and so we need the best QB out there. Therefore, I am happy with Teddy being the starter if that is who the Coaching staff deem as the best guy to do that.

I agree. I am just giving my perspective on how the fanbase will be. Which is .. surprise, surprise...annoying

[BroncoBruin]

No special teams coach has ever had a longer leash than Tom McMahon, it’s pretty ridiculous. 

[grizmo78]

1 minute ago, BroncoBruin said:

No special teams coach has ever had a longer leash than Tom McMahon, it’s pretty ridiculous. 

I was shocked and disappointed he wasn't canned last year...