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What to do at QB?


What is your preference for the QB spot?  

51 members have voted

  1. 1. What is your preference for the QB spot?

    • Keep Drew Lock as the starter for 2021
      19
    • Draft a rookie in the 1st round and make him the starter
      13
    • Trade for/sign an established vet (Stafford, Wentz, Ryan)
      13
    • Trade for/sign a journeyman vet (Fitz, Tyrod) to compete with Lock
      6


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5 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

All fair points. What does making the playoffs in a tie-breaker and getting our s*** kicked in the first round do? Make Ellis and the Bowlen brats few more bucks? I want the Broncos to contend for Super Bowls, not wild cart berths. We’re not the Browns. A .500ish record is not what this team settles for.

If Paton wants to turn things around and contend for Super Bowls he should grow a pair and hire a real HC, draft a QB and stop *****-footing around by keeping Vic & Co and starting Teddy check down. 

Going with the Vic/Shurmur/Teddy show only confirms the worst concerns people had when he was hired in that he’s a Spielman clone who will field a solid but unspectacular roster coached by a below average staff. 

Those of us - which is most here - who wanted real change got a blue Honda Civic to replace our gray Toyota Corolla. 

We kinda are the Browns at this point. We don't have an ownership group and we get to watch the QB carousel graphic (if we get any national tv games, which, we might not have this year? i forget). Talking about super bowls with where the franchise is right now is simply living in the past. We haven't sniffed the playoffs or been competitive since 2016, which was simply the SB50 defense carry over. 

I think the team actually has a lot of talent - like I've said repeatedly. A lot of young talent that deserves a real chance at development and creating a winning culture. Building the infrastructure of a team that has some sort of direction and identity is a step in the right direction. Elway (and maybe Paton) have done a really good job putting talent all over the roster. Gotta strongly disagree that this year is similar to the last couple years. This is easily the best roster with the most talent. 

I'm just giving Paton a solid year to find his footing before I judge him on these franchise altering moves (firing a whole coaching staff). But in general I am very much not a Vic guy and don't see a real way to truly compete for a title with him as coach. And we still need a franchise QB. You won't find any arguments for me there. I'm just not killing Paton for being in bed with those guys like you are. 

And, for the record, i'm talking competitive all year - playoff bound - as a successful year. If it's a .500 year and we pretty much suck - that to me is an expectation that Paton is cleaning house. 

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5 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

I mean he very well might hire a good HC, how do we know that keeping Vic for 1 more year while the ownership deal is fixed wasn’t part of the hiring on process? 
 

If he has a hire we all disagree with next year or keeps Vic after a mediocre year THEN it’s time to criticize his coaching choices.   
 

I would’ve much rather went with Fields but the coaching choice isn’t something we can lay at Paton’s feet yet 

Then he’s not a real, fully-empowered GM and we should blast the hire.

One of the spins the team-friendly media put out when he was hired was that he passed up numerous other offers in years passed for the right one.

Then he takes a job where he can’t hire his own coaching staff?

Maybe it’s that he actually likes Vic, Shurmur et al and thus is just a bad evaluator of coaching. He was RS’s right hand man when they hired Mike Zimmer, a Vic clone. 

So far, the guy sucks. Let’s call a spade a spade. 

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1 minute ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Then he’s not a real, fully-empowered GM and we should blast the hire.

One of the spins the team-friendly media put out when he was hired was that he passed up numerous other offers in years passed for the right one.

Then he takes a job where he can’t hire his own coaching staff?

Maybe it’s that he actually likes Vic, Shurmur et al and thus is just a bad evaluator of coaching. He was RS’s right hand man when they hired Mike Zimmer, a Vic clone. 

So far, the guy sucks. Let’s call a spade a spade. 

Or the offer was Ellis and Elway are essentially done after this year and Paton gets to start completely fresh. 

 

I know you hate the guy but all we have to go on is one round of FA and one draft, you can keep making up reasons why he sucks at picking coaches or QBs (i don't disagree on the QBs necessarily) and try to blame him for Spielman's hires but until Paton actually makes moves that can be attributed to him I think it's pointless to rag on him.

 

I think we all agree Ellis is one of the real issues with the franchise, maybe Paton sees real opportunity here when Ellis is gone?

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9 minutes ago, champ11 said:

We kinda are the Browns at this point. We don't have an ownership group and we get to watch the QB carousel graphic (if we get any national tv games, which, we might not have this year? i forget). Talking about super bowls with where the franchise is right now is simply living in the past. We haven't sniffed the playoffs or been competitive since 2016, which was simply the SB50 defense carry over. 

I think the team actually has a lot of talent - like I've said repeatedly. A lot of young talent that deserves a real chance at development and creating a winning culture. Building the infrastructure of a team that has some sort of direction and identity is a step in the right direction. Elway (and maybe Paton) have done a really good job putting talent all over the roster. Gotta strongly disagree that this year is similar to the last couple years. This is easily the best roster with the most talent. 

I'm just giving Paton a solid year to find his footing before I judge him on these franchise altering moves (firing a whole coaching staff). But in general I am very much not a Vic guy and don't see a real way to truly compete for a title with him as coach. And we still need a franchise QB. You won't find any arguments for me there. I'm just not killing Paton for being in bed with those guys like you are. 

And, for the record, i'm talking competitive all year - playoff bound - as a successful year. If it's a .500 year and we pretty much suck - that to me is an expectation that Paton is cleaning house. 

How is this year not similar to the last couple? Because your boy George Paton signed Darby, Fuller and Boone, drafted PS2 and traded for Teddy?

What’s different from last years roster and this one’s besides them?

Getting Von nd Sutton back healthy isn’t on Paton. Neither is a year of development for Jeudy, Hamler (who “Teddy checkdown” only limits), Albert O, Fant or any of the young talent that Paton didn’t draft, left mired under a HC who doesn’t watch offense and saddled with a game manager QB.

What would have been nice would have been hiring a GM who would install a coaching staff that could let our young crew grow together. 

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1 minute ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

How is this year not similar to the last couple? Because your boy George Paton signed Darby, Fuller and Boone, drafted PS2 and traded for Teddy?

What’s different from last years roster and this one’s besides them?

Getting Von nd Sutton back healthy isn’t on Paton. Neither is a year of development for Jeudy, Hamler (who “Teddy checkdown” only limits), Albert O, Fant or any of the young talent that Paton didn’t draft, left mired under a HC who doesn’t watch offense and saddled with a game manager QB.

What would have been nice would have been hiring a GM who would install a coaching staff that could let our young crew grow together. 

I know you would have been hyped up about hiring a young hot coordinator, or whatever your favorite term is there. Honestly dishonest to not see the obvious depth and improvement with this roster talent wise over previous years, I don't feel the need to break it down. 

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58 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Those of us - which is most here - who wanted real change got a blue Honda Civic to replace our gray Toyota Corolla. 

I don't know if I necessarily agree 100% with what you said (I'm willing to see what happens in another year/two because maybe ownership/Elway really pushed for Paton to keep the current group together...) but it's a hilarious analogy nonetheless. 

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31 minutes ago, champ11 said:

I know you would have been hyped up about hiring a young hot coordinator, or whatever your favorite term is there. Honestly dishonest to not see the obvious depth and improvement with this roster talent wise over previous years, I don't feel the need to break it down. 

Paton has been phenominal so far. The draft was great, the FA class was great, the team has depth that has been missing since the PM years. 

To judge him already as a goon because he chose to pass on Justin Fields is insane. We dont even know if that guy will be good, he isnt some Lawrence level talent or anything. 

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3 hours ago, broncofan48 said:

Or the offer was Ellis and Elway are essentially done after this year and Paton gets to start completely fresh. 

 

I know you hate the guy but all we have to go on is one round of FA and one draft, you can keep making up reasons why he sucks at picking coaches or QBs (i don't disagree on the QBs necessarily) and try to blame him for Spielman's hires but until Paton actually makes moves that can be attributed to him I think it's pointless to rag on him.

I think we all agree Ellis is one of the real issues with the franchise, maybe Paton sees real opportunity here when Ellis is gone?

I don’t “hate” Paton. I just don’t see the reason why everyone is all over this guy like we just hired Ozzie Newsome or … take your pick … some HOF GM. I can only go on what I’ve seen. I’ve seen a guy who retained a bad coaching staff, to whom he had ties, traded for a QB, to whom he had ties and passed on drafting an elite QB prospect when he didn’t have a franchise QB on the roster.  I see him being a Rick Spielman clone. RS is a solid GM, you could do a lot worse, but Paton is operating like ab RS clone, for better and for worse. I don’t like that. 

If the issues are with Ellis/ownership, and I believe at least a gigantic portion of them are, and he (Paton) banked on a new owner being better, then taking this job, after (apparently) passing up o bunch of others is a shot in the dark on his part. He doesn’t know who the new owner is going to be. We could get another Mr. B or we could get Dan Snyder. 

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3 hours ago, champ11 said:

I know you would have been hyped up about hiring a young hot coordinator, or whatever your favorite term is there. Honestly dishonest to not see the obvious depth and improvement with this roster talent wise over previous years, I don't feel the need to break it down. 

I’m not a fan of the “hot coordinator” hire if it’s for the sake he’s a hot coordinator - the guy who gets the job because he coached a good unit on a good team under a good HC and with HOF talent at one or more positions and otherwise has nothing on his resume. 

We have a good roster. We have a young roster loaded with talent. We have a nice component of veterans. But Paton has contributed, what, 10% of it?

As I outlined it before, Elway, for all his faults, brought in all of the proven talent on roster that everyone is so excited about sans PS2, Fuller, Darby and Javonte Williams. 

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2 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Paton has been phenominal so far. The draft was great, the FA class was great, the team has depth that has been missing since the PM years. 

To judge him already as a goon because he chose to pass on Justin Fields is insane. We dont even know if that guy will be good, he isnt some Lawrence level talent or anything. 

One, Paton made 1 draft pick that looks surefire - PS2 - and I never argued that. the rest, let’s wait before we put them in the HOF.

Time will tell if Fields pans out. 

Beyond that, read the of what I wrote. I have to go bathe an itchy, whiny, grouchy two-year-old. 

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7 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

I'd be interested to see which quote of mine (in any thread) that has led you to believe I have a strong opinion on the matter. I really don't. It's barely even 55/45 in my mind.

I just think it's asinine for people to talk about this decision like it absolutely should be Drew, or that it absolutely should be Teddy. 

That said ... If you want to me give you a reason for why I lean towards Teddy, it comes down to how I think he's a better option in situational scenarios.

Neither QB is going to bring us back from the dead in games or likely blow teams out. It's going to come down to quality 3rd and 4th down conversion, TDs in the redzone and limiting mistakes. I have more trust in Teddy in these aspects. That's the crux of it, really.

I think most of us would agree that Lock offers the ceiling - but Teddy is less likely to make mistakes.   Lock has the big play ability - but knucklehead ability that's shown up far too often.


I will say that the FO would have FAR preferred if Lock ran away and won the competition - if only because you can probably drop Teddy into a game cold, and he'd do OK.    He understands scheme, and makes the safe reads.   That's easier to do in an emergency backup role.    Lock isn't that kind of backup.  He needs so much more time with the starting lineup to get the scheme, hot reads, and adjustments made week-to-week.    Teddy just doesn't have much ceiling, and IMO won't be anything more than a caretaker.   Which with our 4th place schedule (September is a really kind schedule to us with NYG, JAX and NYJ all coming up for the first 3 weeks).   If we're the better team, Teddy won't give the game away the same way Lock's done in the past.   I also don't think Teddy is the long-term answer, but I get why Teddy won the job - especially the way our schedule starts.


(I also think the RB's and Jeudy will get more work with Teddy as QB, FWIW).

 

 

 

5 hours ago, champ11 said:

We kinda are the Browns at this point. We don't have an ownership group and we get to watch the QB carousel graphic (if we get any national tv games, which, we might not have this year? i forget). Talking about super bowls with where the franchise is right now is simply living in the past. We haven't sniffed the playoffs or been competitive since 2016, which was simply the SB50 defense carry over. 

I think the team actually has a lot of talent - like I've said repeatedly. A lot of young talent that deserves a real chance at development and creating a winning culture. Building the infrastructure of a team that has some sort of direction and identity is a step in the right direction. Elway (and maybe Paton) have done a really good job putting talent all over the roster. Gotta strongly disagree that this year is similar to the last couple years. This is easily the best roster with the most talent. 

I'm just giving Paton a solid year to find his footing before I judge him on these franchise altering moves (firing a whole coaching staff). But in general I am very much not a Vic guy and don't see a real way to truly compete for a title with him as coach. And we still need a franchise QB. You won't find any arguments for me there. I'm just not killing Paton for being in bed with those guys like you are. 

And, for the record, i'm talking competitive all year - playoff bound - as a successful year. If it's a .500 year and we pretty much suck - that to me is an expectation that Paton is cleaning house. 

I think even with an average QB, barring crippling injuries, with our schedule and the talent we've developed, we should be a 9-10 W team (that schedule really helps).  It's why I've been all on board to go all in with a legit franchise level QB (Stafford, Watson, A-Rod, and yes, the Rd1 QB - although that's more for 2022+ onwards).   The talent we've accumulated is a real cause for optimism - but we have no chance to go far in the playoffs with mediocre QB play.  Our 2015 run was based on a perfect D and great coaching - and we barely won each week, even with HFA.    That's just not sustainable.  

Re: Fangio, it's tough because he's the best DC around.   He just shouldn't be doing the in-game HC stuff.  We can't win games vs. equal or better teams consistently with his game management.   Maybe he's decided to let someone else take that over - but agree that his role in developing talent and culture have been strengths - but if we're going to get over the hump, it's likely going to be a different guy (like Fox couldn't be that guy b4).   As long as we keep Munchak as our OL coach, though - he's so key to developing our trenches relatively affordibly.

 

4 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Paton has been phenominal so far. The draft was great, the FA class was great, the team has depth that has been missing since the PM years. 

To judge him already as a goon because he chose to pass on Justin Fields is insane. We dont even know if that guy will be good, he isnt some Lawrence level talent or anything. 

If Fields is a top 10 QB, Paton will get criticized.   That's unavoidable.  But I also concur he's been so good in every other aspect.     It's definitely way too soon to make any kind of statements, and really, we should be nothing but optimistic...yet concerned until we address QB long-term. 

 

 

7 hours ago, grizmo78 said:

Or honestly taken the trade down with the Bears and gotten multiple 1st round picks to set us up for being able to trade those assets for a QB (either vet or draft) without mortgaging the future! The bears are going to be trash this year... starting Dalton behind a terrible and injured offensive line. IMO we literally picked the most middling option we could have. 

You know that's how I'd have rolled, I called that on Draft night too.    And it's nothing against Paton, or Surtain (who has done nothing to generate any concern).    I personally do think having a HC who's very much on the hot seat, a CEO and departing GM who are tired of losing, did influence that somewhat (and some small clinging desperate hope Lock could progress - you know my thoughts on that lol).

It's hard for me to knock Paton - because I don't think he gets full carte blanche until he gets to pick his HC.   It is unfortunate in that I think we had an opp that rarely comes by to secure QB (either Fields or the acquisition of CHI's pick, which I agree could be top 6-10).    But I also understand how it went down....as much as I'd have hoped it went differently.   

 

I mentioned it before, but after 4+ years of saying each year we're nowhere close to think win-now - we're finally there, provided we have good QB play.   Our D isn't generational elite, and today's NFL requires good O play to compete if you don't have a 2015 No Fly Zone, 2002-BAL, 1986-Bears or 2013-Legion of Boom SEA D.   We don't.   So in the end, it comes down to Teddy now.  Lock if he struggles (ugh).   But I agree for 2022+, it's probably a new face.   That doesn't eliminate our chance to make playoffs - but I think it's a very real mirage for playoff success (given our 4th place schedule & DET as game #17).

 

 

PS - to end on a bright note - after a long spring 3rd wave an long summer recovering work-wise, it's great we're less than 2 weeks away from games.    

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9 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

No, it absolutely does matter that the deck was stacked. If you're single and your friend introduces you to a girl but then at the same time invites <insert name of famous celebrity that girls today like> and he shows up, your chances of getting a second date with her aren't going to be great. 

The obvious issue with this analogy is that you’re comparing Teddy to a young, hot celebrity. A more apt analogy would be inviting another super regular guy who’s just like me except has blonde hair, when the girl has a thing for blonde guys. 

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16 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

How is this year not similar to the last couple? Because your boy George Paton signed Darby, Fuller and Boone, drafted PS2 and traded for Teddy?

What’s different from last years roster and this one’s besides them?

Getting Von nd Sutton back healthy isn’t on Paton. Neither is a year of development for Jeudy, Hamler (who “Teddy checkdown” only limits), Albert O, Fant or any of the young talent that Paton didn’t draft, left mired under a HC who doesn’t watch offense and saddled with a game manager QB.

What would have been nice would have been hiring a GM who would install a coaching staff that could let our young crew grow together. 

To be fair if we take a deeper look at what Paton's done as GM:

1.   He let Kareem Jackson walk, only to re-sign him at a 5M discount.  It was incredibly unpopular with players & fans - until he brought Kareem back, who found out the market agreed with Paton.

2.  He resisted CHI's trade overtures for Kyle Fuller, signed at 14M - and then signed him for 9M and gave up nothing pick-wise.    That 10M saved from #1 & #2 allowed for Darby to be brought in.    Much like Elway's best years, Paton didn't compromise future cap health to help the team, and by getting Darby, he got future potential as well as win-now talent (my main objection with Elway's $$ ways from 2017-present - a lot of $ spent on guys with little to no future potential to help).

3.  He did not stare down Von for his option - which only could have netted DEN 18M.     The goodwill there has obviously worked, Von's not said a peep but been the ideal team leader this offseason.  The top FA DE's were Carl Lawson, Kyle Hendrickson, who got 15M AAV.    It's pretty easy to see with the inflated new contracts, why Von's camp didn't budge.    Losing Von for nothing (if you release him, there's no comp picks) was clearly not an option.   Paton made the correct market call, and didn't create extra team drama in the process.

4.  Paton did re-sign Justin Simmons to a very market-friendly deal.   As with Elway's exension with Bolles 4/68 (that pales in comparison to Bakhtiari's 4/92), Paton's deal with Simmons' at 4/61, looked like market value, until Jamal Adams got 4/70 from SEA.   And Adams IMO isn't even a top 5 safety (Where Simmons is top 2 if not top overall FS).  I said it before with Watson & A-Rod's QB contracts - they will look like absolute market steals by the time the new CBA $ comes in (obv pre-Watson off-field issues).   Paton getting Simmons &  Elway getting Bolles extended before the big new TV $ was public knowledge saved DEN a TON of future $. 

And while nothing in the draft is a certainty - overall Paton didn't reach for "his guys", and appeared to find value.   He continued the emphasis on high-skill, high-ceiling, high-character that are supported by metrics analysis - this is the change that Elway adopted in 2018 that turned the org's draft fortunes from Day 2 misery around.   Nothing is a guarantee, but the process appears really sound. 

Overall, with the talent we have built up (which Elway gets his due for) - that's a pretty strong build for offseason #1.  It just lacks the future QB.   No one argues that.  


Now, in the end - if Fields is great, and we never find our guy for another 3-5 years - then yes, that's a miss, even if Surtain is a great CB.   That's how important QB, and cheap rookie deal QB, if it's top-12 level play or better, can be to a team's fortunes.    If you recall, I was fine with a healthy cleared Matt Stafford for 1.9 (and I think Stafford in LAR will ball out too).  But the circumstances first with Watson, then A-Rod, well I get it.  I don't like it, but I get it.  

In the end, that will determine Paton's time here as much as the rest.  But the rest matters, too.  He can find the QB, and still struggle if he doesn't get the cap management, roster juggling in FA, and draft right.   It's hard not to get excited on those fronts.  It won't matter long-term if we keep missing on QB, but at least we can find a LOT to like in what Paton has done so far elsewhere. 

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11 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I’m not a fan of the “hot coordinator” hire if it’s for the sake he’s a hot coordinator - the guy who gets the job because he coached a good unit on a good team under a good HC and with HOF talent at one or more positions and otherwise has nothing on his resume. 

We have a good roster. We have a young roster loaded with talent. We have a nice component of veterans. But Paton has contributed, what, 10% of it?

As I outlined it before, Elway, for all his faults, brought in all of the proven talent on roster that everyone is so excited about sans PS2, Fuller, Darby and Javonte Williams. 

I never said Paton brought in the roster? I said he had a very good offseason. Which I think most would agree with. This whole conversation started with me rejecting you lumping Paton/Fangio/Shurmur together. Elway freaking hired them lol. He and Ellis completely blew it the last 6 years. But I agree (and have said, like in the last 2 pages) that Elway and co deserve a ton of credit for their last 2 or so years of talent acquisition. 

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Yeah, I think for Paton to come in and fix everything year 1 seems a bit too ambitious.  His FA signings and draft picks seem to be holding water so far.  New coaching staff and a franchise QB year 2 should put the franchise back on the path to respectability. 

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