What to do at QB?

[Cutler06]

To be somewhat fair to Lock, he didn't get to practice with the 1st team this week, still his performance showed he was far from "ready".  While Martindale is a very good DC, this BAL defense is not one of the best in the league right now so our performance was dismal to say the least. Our OL was abysmal to say the least, and their pass rush took advantage of it.  

[lomaxgrUK]

34 minutes ago, Cutler06 said:

To be somewhat fair to Lock, he didn't get to practice with the 1st team this week, still his performance showed he was far from "ready".  While Martindale is a very good DC, this BAL defense is not one of the best in the league right now so our performance was dismal to say the least. Our OL was abysmal to say the least, and their pass rush took advantage of it.  

I would agree with this, but it is worth mentioning what @Broncofantouched on, in that Lock's makeup really isn't that of a backup QB unfortunately. Most teams want command of the huddle and somewhat safe as a backup (in terms of realistic options) rather than Lock who's more of the gunslinger mentality.

I have stated on several occasions that yesterday is not a fair measuring stick of Drew, given the dire circumstances. This opinion is what I have formed over Drew's entire NFL career thus far.

[bMiller031]

Watching the LVR LAC game and I don’t think we can score with either of these teams. I know we’re all tired of the QB talk but nothing matters until we get that resolved.

[AKRNA]

1 hour ago, bMiller031 said:

Watching the LVR LAC game and I don’t think we can score with either of these teams. I know we’re all tired of the QB talk but nothing matters until we get that resolved.

I always value your opinion bud. That said, I think the Chargers are the real deal. Not so much the Raiders. The Chargers have an excellent defense. So do we.

We don't play them until 11/28. By that time all our lost starters except Jewell should be back and 5 of our division games start then. The division will be decided in December and January. 

@lomaxgrUK was right. I undervalued the difference the loss of so many starters on offense would make. Our explosiveness will be back by then. Understudies on the OL and skill spots will have lots more experience and getting back a healthy Chubb and Darby, extra snaps for Stern, etc. will make us a very formidable opponent. 

I know, I'm an incorrigible optimist, but I'm hardly looking at a loss to the Ravens as some doom and gloom scenario. We're not as good as our 3-0 start would appear but definitely not as bad as Sunday.

 

 

[lomaxgrUK]

2 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Our explosiveness will be back by then.

Will it though?

Hamler is done for the year, and Jeudy is almost certainly not going to be back then. Even if he is, his ankle isn't going to be 100% and Jeudy at full health isn't someone who makes a Defense account for the whole field; he's best as part of a precise Offense.

He's the butt of a lot of jokes, but Henry Ruggs is the one who changed the game for the Raiders on Offense yesterday. As soon as the Chargers gave up the long PI call to him and then the long completion to him (around 80 yards of territory in 2 plays), the Chargers hard to go back to a 2 deep shell which opened up space all over the field.

Being quick isn't enough - you have to be a threat and that requires the QB to throw your way. Honestly, I think KJ Hamler's preseason put him on the radar of our early opponents. There is no doubt KJ Hamler impacted our early Defensive opponents, regardless of production.

Can we really rely on David Moore to fill that role? I'm skeptical. Regardless, he won't be a factor until he can prove he can make those chunk plays.

[Broncofan]

3 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Will it though?

Hamler is done for the year, and Jeudy is almost certainly not going to be back then. Even if he is, his ankle isn't going to be 100% and Jeudy at full health isn't someone who makes a Defense account for the whole field; he's best as part of a precise Offense.

He's the butt of a lot of jokes, but Henry Ruggs is the one who changed the game for the Raiders on Offense yesterday. As soon as the Chargers gave up the long PI call to him and then the long completion to him (around 80 yards of territory in 2 plays), the Chargers hard to go back to a 2 deep shell which opened up space all over the field.

Being quick isn't enough - you have to be a threat and that requires the QB to throw your way. Honestly, I think KJ Hamler's preseason put him on the radar of our early opponents. There is no doubt KJ Hamler impacted our early Defensive opponents, regardless of production.

Can we really rely on David Moore to fill that role? I'm skeptical. Regardless, he won't be a factor until he can prove he can make those chunk plays.

I do think Jeudy is the complete package.    However if he’s your only explosive guy you simply roll the safety his way and bracket him.    
 

When Fant is healthy and Hamler is there we have 3 different starters that the D has to account for chunk plays.   Patrick / Sutton are more 50-50 ball catchers downfield than guys who can outright beat ppl deep.    
 

Sadly I suspect neither Fant or Jeudy will be close to 100 percent as Fant’s issue is likely going to linger most if not all of the season.   Fant playing through the injury each week is good short term for the team but also likely never lets the injury (esp if it’s a knee issue) heal completely.   As for a grade 2 HAS players are seldom the same until the following offseason.   They can play in 4-6 weeks but the full explosion doesn’t come back also until you let it rest for a long time.    Now Jeudy is so special at separation he may only need 90-95 percent explosion to keep winning.    But yeah the outlook for our O being as lethal isn’t nearly as good.  
 

I was on record (and it’s there in the play the GM thread) from Day 1 I’d have taken CB Jaylon Johnson instead.    But I can’t deny Hamler’s speed is an element that helped diversify our O.   Even though he’ll return next year we would be well served in looking at a Rd3-4 pick for a lid lifter.   It changes the O so much to have multi level threats on O.   And having 2 on the squad isn’t a bad thing at all.  

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Broncofan

[bMiller031]

11 hours ago, AKRNA said:

I know, I'm an incorrigible optimist, but I'm hardly looking at a loss to the Ravens as some doom and gloom scenario. We're not as good as our 3-0 start would appear but definitely not as bad as Sunday.

I think we can all agree on a few things:

• Vic Fangio is not a Super Bowl HC and Pat Shurmur is not a Super Bowl OC
• Teddy Bridgewater, at his best, is the 4th best QB in the division
• We have not seen the encouraging progress we hoped for this season from our young core (Jeudy, Hamler, Fant, Chubb, Jewell, Lock, etc.)
• Ownership is completely dysfunctional

Any iota of success, in spite of these things, potentially delays the inevitable much needed reset of the organization. We need a new owner, a new HC, a new OC, and a new QB (+ maybe some new unis..?). IMO, worst case scenario long-term is that some gimicky success this season prevents us from confronting the foundational flaws of the org.

[jsthomp2007]

29 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

I think we can all agree on a few things:

• Vic Fangio is not a Super Bowl HC and Pat Shurmur is not a Super Bowl OC
• Teddy Bridgewater, at his best, is the 4th best QB in the division
• We have not seen the encouraging progress we hoped for this season from our young core (Jeudy, Hamler, Fant, Chubb, Jewell, Lock, etc.)
• Ownership is completely dysfunctional

Any iota of success, in spite of these things, potentially delays the inevitable much needed reset of the organization. We need a new owner, a new HC, a new OC, and a new QB (+ maybe some new unis..?). IMO, worst case scenario long-term is that some gimicky success this season prevents us from confronting the foundational flaws of the org.

This is pretty good.  

[AKRNA]

On 10/4/2021 at 11:41 PM, lomaxgrUK said:

Will it though?

Hamler is done for the year, and Jeudy is almost certainly not going to be back then. Even if he is, his ankle isn't going to be 100% and Jeudy at full health isn't someone who makes a Defense account for the whole field; he's best as part of a precise Offense.

He's the butt of a lot of jokes, but Henry Ruggs is the one who changed the game for the Raiders on Offense yesterday. As soon as the Chargers gave up the long PI call to him and then the long completion to him (around 80 yards of territory in 2 plays), the Chargers hard to go back to a 2 deep shell which opened up space all over the field.

Being quick isn't enough - you have to be a threat and that requires the QB to throw your way. Honestly, I think KJ Hamler's preseason put him on the radar of our early opponents. There is no doubt KJ Hamler impacted our early Defensive opponents, regardless of production.

Can we really rely on David Moore to fill that role? I'm skeptical. Regardless, he won't be a factor until he can prove he can make those chunk plays.

I didn't make my point very well. 

Even without Jeudy and Hamler this offense has enough talent at all skill positions to be explosive. Shurmer just has to play to our strengths. The last game plan was awful.

Fant, Albert, Patrick, Sutton, Gordon, Williams and to a lesser extent Saubert are all capable of game changing plays. They all present matchup problems that in a well run WCO is more than enough. I agree, KJ presents a totally different skill/set, speed component that we don't have without him. If he had good hands he'd be a nightmare.

My point is, Shurmer has talent at his disposal to present a matchup nightmare for any opponent. By the time Jeudy's back he should be learning what to do with it. 

My real concern is that Shurmer seems to be a reluctant participant in a WCO. I think he'd prefer an "Air Coryell", something we're not equipped to do personnel wise.

 

[Cutler06]

Well, Spencer Rattler just got benched, maybe we can get him with our `10th overall 1st round pick  😁

[BroncoSojia]

53 minutes ago, Cutler06 said:

Well, Spencer Rattler just got benched, maybe we can get him with our `10th overall 1st round pick  😁

He has a pretty crappy attitude and he can't succeed with Lincoln Riley. I want no parts of him. Corral, Strong, Howell, or Willis please.

Edited October 10, 2021 by BroncoSojia

[BroncoBruin]

7 minutes ago, BroncoSojia said:

He has a pretty crappy attitude and he can't succeed with Lincoln Riley. I want no parts of him. Corral, Strong, Howell, or Willis please.

Would be fitting if the Broncos go QB in this bad looking upcoming class after passing up better opportunities in 2018 and 2021. 

Edited October 10, 2021 by BroncoBruin

[AnAngryAmerican]

12 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Would be fitting if the Broncos go QB in this bad looking upcoming class after passing up better opportunities in 2018 and 2021. 

If it’s not Aaron Rodgers, it will be Kirk Cousins. They’re so, so, so unlikely to draft a QB in the first round after passing up on Fields. I’d be shocked. An ownership change might change things but a tiger can’t change its stripes and it’s even more rare to see a GM change his ways. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by AnAngryAmerican

[BroncoBruin]

30 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

If it’s not Aaron Rodgers, it will be Kirk Cousins. They’re so, so, so unlikely to draft a QB in the first round after passing up on Fields. I’d be shocked. An ownership change might change things but a tiger can’t change its stripes and it’s even more rare to see a GM change his ways. 

Paying big money to Kirk Cousins, ugh. Kirk is like the best version of what we get from Teddy. He brings more of a vertical threat and we’d probably score a couple more points per game, but he’s the same kind of 3rd down scaredy cat and without a consistent run game that’s going to mean a lot of punts. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

39 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Paying big money to Kirk Cousins, ugh. Kirk is like the best version of what we get from Teddy. He brings more of a vertical threat and we’d probably score a couple more points per game, but he’s the same kind of 3rd down scaredy cat and without a consistent run game that’s going to mean a lot of punts. 

I agree. But we have to remember Paton was also part of the team that brought Cousins in for record guarantees and he has already demonstrated a proclivity for pursing player to whom he has ties.