What to do at QB?

[bMiller031]

1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

If it’s not Aaron Rodgers, it will be Kirk Cousins. They’re so, so, so unlikely to draft a QB in the first round after passing up on Fields. I’d be shocked. An ownership change might change things but a tiger can’t change its stripes and it’s even more rare to see a GM change his ways. 

F*** me that would be such a bummer. If it’s not a high ceiling vet (Wilson, Rodgers, Watson) it needs to be a rookie. These half-measures are so tired

[Cutler06]

2 hours ago, BroncoSojia said:

He has a pretty crappy attitude and he can't succeed with Lincoln Riley. I want no parts of him. Corral, Strong, Howell, or Willis please.

I was more commenting on the TENTH overall pick, who wants a QB that was benched on a major college program ??

[Broncofan]

At this stage, it would appear that Watson (assuming legal matters resolve), ARod & Russell Wilson will all become available next year.    In that event, we are passing on QB at the draft.     Watson may be headed to MIA before then if his legal matters resolve (grand jury rules, then there's a settlement), more likely the offseason.   I think that's far more likely out of all the scenarios, the end result being it takes MIA out of next year's sweepstakes.

My main point - this could be a very different offseason than simply debating what QB is there Rd1.     

Edited October 11, 2021 by Broncofan

[lomaxgrUK]

We said it about Drew last year, so it's only fair we say it about Teddy this year - you can't just wait until the 4th Quarter down 3 scores to start moving the ball. The stat line and scoreboard might look close, but it's not conducive to winning Football games.

Yes, there are extenuating circumstances but there was for Drew as well last year and there always will be in the NFL. 

It's the second week in a row with, to be frank, disgusting production in the 1st half and it absolutely has to improve and quickly.

Edited October 11, 2021 by lomaxgrUK

[lomaxgrUK]

Also, I do wonder if there will ever be a time in the rest of Josh Allen's career where we all don't think, "why Elway - why?"

I think we all know and to an extent, understand why Elway didn't pick him. Another strong arm QB from a small (Football) school with accuracy issues - Lynch clearly impacted Elway.

But the guy is an absolutely dominant NFL QB now, and all we got for missing out on him was an oft injured, non-game changing pass rusher. 

It was Elway's job to put emotion and past mistakes aside, and to analyse the talent in front of you. He failed to do that.

It's going to go down as Elway's biggest ever mistake in Denver.

Edited October 11, 2021 by lomaxgrUK

[AnAngryAmerican]

1 hour ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Also, I do wonder if there will ever be a time in the rest of Josh Allen's career where we all don't think, "why Elway - why?"

I think we all know and to an extent, understand why Elway didn't pick him. Another strong arm QB from a small (Football) school with accuracy issues - Lynch clearly impacted Elway.

But the guy is an absolutely dominant NFL QB now, and all we got for missing out on him was an oft injured, non-game changing pass rusher. 

It was Elway's job to put emotion and past mistakes aside, and to analyse the talent in front of you. He failed to do that.

It's going to go down as Elway's biggest ever mistake in Denver.

Yeah it’s a real bummer. 

That said though, I’m not sure Josh would have developed the same way here as did in Buffalo with a significantly inferior coaching staff and a rudderless organization. 

[jolly red giant]

14 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I agree. But we have to remember Paton was also part of the team that brought Cousins in for record guarantees and he has already demonstrated a proclivity for pursing player to whom he has ties. 

Who knows - maybe Paton brings back shanny and Kubiak to run the Cousins offence.

[bMiller031]

I would rather hand the reins to Brett Rypien and go 3-14 next year over signing Kirk Cousins

[AnAngryAmerican]

4 hours ago, jolly red giant said:

Who knows - maybe Paton brings back shanny and Kubiak to run the Cousins offence.

Very doubtful. For one, Kubiak doesn't want to coach again and Mike is happy being an informal (but important) advisor to Kyle and John in San Fran. 

Two, and more importantly as pertains to us, I think this team needs a complete changing of the guard rather than try to get the band back together and try to relive the glory days of seasons past. 

I think this team needs a complete cleaning of house and a fresh start. A new owner with a new approach. A new team president with NFL experience to help the new owner. An entirely new coaching staff and some more fresh blood in the FO to work with Paton (who is almost certain to stay for 2022 at the very least even with an ownership change). 

I think we need a coach who is young and has fresh ideas about the modern NFL. But not too young as to be green and out of his depth, like Vance. I think he needs to come from the offensive side of the ball, have experience under multiple different HCs and have had success under them and with various groups of players. I think we need someone who can relate to modern players but also command their respect. He shouldn't be afraid to delegate to his coordinators but should also have his hand in, and influence on, everything rather than be solely focused on one side of the ball, like Vic. Previous HCing experience should given weight, but not an absolute requirement. And he cannot, under any circumstances, come from the New England tree. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by AnAngryAmerican

[anewdawn]

32 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Very doubtful. For one, Kubiak doesn't want to coach again and Mike is happy being an informal (but important) advisor to Kyle and John in San Fran. 

Two, and more importantly as pertains to us, I think this team needs a complete changing of the guard rather than try to get the band back together and try to relive the glory days of seasons past. 

I think this team needs a complete cleaning of house and a fresh start. A new owner with a new approach. A new team president with NFL experience to help the new owner. An entirely new coaching staff and some more fresh blood in the FO to work with Paton (who is almost certain to stay for 2022 at the very least even with an ownership change). 

I think we need a coach who is young and has fresh ideas about the modern NFL. But not too young as to be green and out of his depth, like Vance. I think he needs to come from the offensive side of the ball, have experience under multiple different HCs and have had success under them and with various groups of players. I think we need someone who can relate to modern players but also command their respect. He shouldn't be afraid to delegate to his coordinators but should also have his hand in, and influence on, everything rather than be solely focused on one side of the ball, like Vic. Previous HCing experience should given weight, but not an absolute requirement. And he cannot, under any circumstances, come from the New England tree. 

Very accurate post especially with regard to the bold.  I am thinking that this rebuild though extends our purgatory by at least 3-5 years.  Sadly it's going to be ugly for us for quite some time to come...........

[bMiller031]

Is there any precedent for a midseason franchise QB trade?  When SEA starts their October/November freefall it’ll hardly make sense to get Russ back on the field especially they’re looking at a 3-7ish record in the best division in football.  
 

I know the far more likely scenario is they shut him down or hustle for the 7th spot but if they’re going to move on regardless…?

[paul-mac]

58 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

Is there any precedent for a midseason franchise QB trade?  When SEA starts their October/November freefall it’ll hardly make sense to get Russ back on the field especially they’re looking at a 3-7ish record in the best division in football.  
 

I know the far more likely scenario is they shut him down or hustle for the 7th spot but if they’re going to move on regardless…?

 

It feels like we are coming towards the end of the most glorious era of the Seattle Seahawks. My guess is that they go 6-11, Pete Carroll and John Schneider mutually agree to leave the team and Russell Wilson forces a trade. I don't think it happens mid-season unless a team firmly in SuperBowl contention loses their QB. It doesn't make any sense for a team who's not in the mix to bring him in until the offseason.

 

The QB market is going to be interesting next year. I typically don't watch much college football until the season is over, but I'm hearing that the QB class isn't great. Combine this with a lot of needy teams and potentially three elite QBs available via trade and we could well see teams get desperate and trade obscene ransoms to get their guy.

 

Teams that I think could be in the market:

 

Steelers (Big Ben's last year)

Dolphins (I think Tua gets a 3rd year but if it goes real South)

Texans (Maybe, depending on Davis Mills progress)

Colts (Depending on Wentz performance)

Broncos

Packers

Lions (?)

Giants (?)

WFT

Saints (?)

Panthers (?)

Falcons

Seahawks

 

That's nearly half the league. Now, not all of them will be looking as most of them (including us) have a guy that's trying to prove himself and some of them will come good, but I'd expect 8-9 teams to be looking for a QB so we could see some blockbuster trades.

 

Interesting move for me would be the Packers trading Rodgers to Seattle for Wilson straight up. You have two guys with probably equal value (one is slightly more talented, but five years older). Both teams are capable of competing with an elite QB and don't necessarily need to rebuild their team with a bunch of picks, but the QBs both need a change of scenery. Why not just swap them?

 

[Dbrog24]

You know for as much crap as Scangarello got, and don't get me wrong he made some boneheaded cutesy plays, but I have to wonder what our football team would look like with him now. Obviously he had good chemistry with Lock and you would hope he would keep trying to innovate to see what could work and what doesn't. Yes, it would be embarrassing at times, but jesus...watching Shurmer's gameplans are outright appalling. Then again, I suppose all of this is irrelevant because Vic would have never allowed it to happen. I definitely hope we either get an elite QB through trades or get an owner who pushes innovation.

[AnAngryAmerican]

1 hour ago, Dbrog24 said:

You know for as much crap as Scangarello got, and don't get me wrong he made some boneheaded cutesy plays, but I have to wonder what our football team would look like with him now. Obviously he had good chemistry with Lock and you would hope he would keep trying to innovate to see what could work and what doesn't. Yes, it would be embarrassing at times, but jesus...watching Shurmer's gameplans are outright appalling. Then again, I suppose all of this is irrelevant because Vic would have never allowed it to happen. I definitely hope we either get an elite QB through trades or get an owner who pushes innovation.

Scags leaked some unflattering things about Vic - all of which I believe were true, even if spun in one-sided way - to a national “reporter” who deals on gossip, pot-stirring and hates the Broncos. That was the end of it for Scags; Ellis/Elway had to side with their HC or risk becoming an even bigger embarrassment league-wide. 

Now, Scags hasn’t exactly distinguished himself in stints following his ouster from here (although going back to SF is ideal for him), but, I do think he and Lock together would have been a far better match. And when the postmortems are written on Vic’s, Shurmur’s and Drew’s tenures here, all of which are a little more than 3 months away, that will be a common theme. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by AnAngryAmerican

[Broncofan]

6 hours ago, paul-mac said:

 

 

Interesting move for me would be the Packers trading Rodgers to Seattle for Wilson straight up. You have two guys with probably equal value (one is slightly more talented, but five years older). Both teams are capable of competing with an elite QB and don't necessarily need to rebuild their team with a bunch of picks, but the QBs both need a change of scenery. Why not just swap them?

 

I don't see ARod to Seattle for 2 simple reasons - Seattle's on the downturn, ARod isn't going to want to go to a team getting worse.  He wants a legacy championship much like how TB12 got his with Tampa.  On the flip side, Seattle will do everything they can to trade Russ to the AFC, and not have to face him regularly.    Wilson being 33 means he's likely got 4-5 peak years left, unlike ARod.   Now, that doesn't mean it won't happen, but it's not SEA's first preference. 

Total spitballing, but if I were to guess, I think the following would happen:

1.  Watson gets cleared, he's MIA or PHI bound (with Hurts/Tua going the other way).    If Hurts progresses, then it's going to be MIA.    Again, this is assuming Watson gets cleared, but the longer this goes without the NFL taking action, the more likely this becomes (2021 seems more & more like a lost cause, but talking for 2022). 

2.  HOU won't interest any star, given their FO woes.  Either they get a Tua/Hurts, or they don't get a marquee name.  Draft if they don't get a QB back.

3.  PIT, DET, NYG & ATL won't interest the stars, for the same reasons.   

 

WFT, CAR & we will be the teams that will interest guys like Wilson/ARod.     If we want to be a leader for ARod / Wilson next offseason, we want 3 scenarios to happen, all of which are quite plausible:

1.   MIA gets Watson, and PHI sees enough in Hurts to stick it out.

2.  We get Jeudy back, our OL plays better, and we show the same flashes this year on O that made us attractive to Watson (pre-legal issues) and A-Rod (before GB refused to blink) this past offseason...while showing how much QB could impact.   That also means our D plays better, too.   We finish with 8-9 wins, but with the league's worst 3rd-down O like we've had so far - it screams "imagine what happens with a great QB".

3.   Paton cans Fangio, and we hire someone that said star QB's are intrigued by.  Doesn't have to be an O guru, but someone who's going to be aggressive, and work with the modern O (Brandon Staley is a DC HC, but his philosophy fits so well with Herbert as his foundation QB).  

Nothing is guaranteed - but by DVOA, WFT, PIT, DET, NYG & ATL are all behind us - and that's with our current injuries and struggles.    CAR is the only team ahead of us.    A bonus 4th scenario is that Darnold plays well enough they hold off (remember they committed to his 2022 salary fully guaranteed at 20M).   

But either way, playing with just enough flashes on O, our young core, and most importantly, a new coaching regime, would very much put us as a top 3 destination for Wilson/A-Rod.   The bonus is if we finish behind LV, we'd have the 4th place schedule that gives us a leg up on 2022 (and frankly a big reason why I projected 2021 with 9-10 W's even with "average" QB play).   

Edited October 12, 2021 by Broncofan