What to do at QB?

[thebestever6 962]

13 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

Allbright had an interesting AMA hour on Twitter and said, from what he’s hearing, it’s likely Lock + a vet FA signing. The vets he listed were Minshew (who I like), Foles, and Dalton.  If Darnold is available, which is a big TBD now, the FO will be all over that but trading for other established starters (Stafford and Ryan) will be cost prohibitive (both as a cap figure and trade comp) and is unlikely. Apparently the FO (like many on here) don’t see any of the QBs besides Lawrence as day one rookie starters.

I don't believe a thing that comes out right now about what the front office believes I mean why would they show their hand? That's insanity.

I kinda find it strange Elway is giving Lock the ringing endorsement on a weekly basis. It's almost like a coach who's about to get canned.

Idk how to feel it's been an abnormal not ideal year with no otas and a bizzare off season. Tbh as well idk it I trust Shurmer and his system to develop a rookie QB.

[broncosfan_101 371]

33 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I mean big Ben has a Qbr of 60 I think Goff is at a 60 and Cousins Is at a 62 Burrow was at a 56 for the year.

And those are guys who are either A making 30 million per year, or in Burrows case are considered the Guy. 

Lock does have to get more consistent no doubt about it as does the rest of the offense. I think Lock has the highest drop rate of passes besides Wentz at 9.5 %. 

I personally don't think the offense has looked right all year minus the Miami and Jets game where the run Game was well established.

Come onnnnn. The average starting QB’s QBR is mid-60’s. Those are Lock’s *good* games. So if we want Lock to be above average, we need those to be his below average games. If you’ve got faith in him to turn his games in the 40’s into games in the 70’s, I think we can just shake hands and agree to never discuss Drew Lock again. 

[thebestever6 962]

1 minute ago, broncosfan_101 said:

Come onnnnn. The average starting QB’s QBR is mid-60’s. Those are Lock’s *good* games. So if we want Lock to be above average, we need those to be his below average games. If you’ve got faith in him to turn his games in the 40’s into games in the 70’s, I think we can just shake hands and agree to never discuss Drew Lock again. 

75 is probowl my guy lol like idk why we gotta be so overly critical of a second year player the way we are with Lock.

Helllll I forgot brock Osweiler was even on the team his second. I think the Juedy bashing has gotten crazy too if I recall he only had drop issues his last year at Bama I still love him as a player.

[broncosfan_101 371]

2 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

75 is probowl my guy lol like idk why we gotta be so overly critical of a second year player the way we are with Lock.

Helllll I forgot brock Osweiler was even on the team his second. I think the Juedy bashing has gotten crazy too if I recall he only had drop issues his last year at Bama I still love him as a player.

Good QB’s have games in the 70’s, and then games in the 50’s-60’s. Lock has the games in the 50’s-60’s, but those 70’s games are actually 40’s games. This is not hard.

[rcpbawler 26]

I voted the rookie option but, truth told, I think it's a sliding scale. Zach Wilson would be a better option than, say, Ryan Fitzpatrick while a Fitzpatrick/Lock combination would be preferred over drafting Kyle Trask with our first.

Generalizing everything though, drafting in the top ten with, what I believe, 4 potential franchise QBs there would be ideal. Lawrence is obviously not happening, but if either Wilson or Fields fell, I'd be ecstatic. Both have their issues (injuries for both, lack of competition for Wilson, going through progressions for Fields), but I'd feel very optimistic about the future with those guys. Trey Lance is a wildcard. If you play a similar offense to what Balitimore has adapted with Lamar Jackson, I think he's the runaway rookie of the year. Josh Allen comparisons are rampant and, from a physical standpoint, has it all. Do we develop him the same way that Josh Allen was? That I'm not confident on, but, as with Allen, you'll kick yourself years later if he does turn into that franchise guy.

As for the guys who could be available... first, I don't know the exact cap situations/ramifications of cutting/trading these guys, but I'm pretty sure the money makes it very, very difficult for Wentz/Ryan to be realistic options. That aside, Ryan would definitely be considered for a head coach/front office on the hot seat. Ryan/Stafford would be the ideal scenarios, but that also depends on the price. For a 3rd or maybe a 2nd, I'd buy in, but a first, absolutely not. Similar answer for Darnold. I really liked him coming out but he's a lot like Drew. His highs are very high, the dude makes throws that only a couple of guys in the league make, but man, he's had some awful, awful lows as well. I'd throw a 2nd at him max, but even then I wouldn't feel great about it.

Going the veteran/journeyman signing route is probably the most realistic. Fitzpatrick does very little for me. I've mentioned it before, but he's so inconsistent and average at best throughout his career. Even this year, most of his praise has come because Brian Flores has gotten everything out of the talent in Miami and they're a good team that he's only had to play the game manager role. Tua has looked pretty bad and having Fitz come out of the bullpen has been the perfect role for him. Winston is intriguing, he's only a year removed from throwing over 5100 yards and 33 TDs. The offense would no doubt be fun to watch for the first time since 2014, but would it be conducive to winning? I'm not sure. No thanks to Tyrod.

Rolling with Lock next year just isn't going to happen. There will absolutely be some sort of competition outside of Jeff Driskell or Brett Rypien. Which of the above is the way we go remains to be seen.

[rcpbawler 26]

2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

I disagree his Qbr has been over 50 a majority of the games our running game has been largely inconsistent, our number 1 wr has been out, Hamler has been out a majority of the time. 

I mean look at the division games first game against the. Chiefs and Chargers you got to put up 30 to win.

I don't get why Darnold gets a pass for lack of supporting cast even tho he's been marginal at best since entering the league.

I'm curious to wonder in hindsight if Elway knew the pandemic was coming does he can Scangs?

. 

 

I get it, you really like Lock and want him to succeed, but you don't have to consistently make excuses for him. First, idc what his QBR has been (which by every stat, advanced metric, eye test) he's been AWFUL. Yes, losing Sutton certainly doesn't help, no, Hamler hasn't been out the "majority" of the time.

Forget 30 points, putting up more than 16 a game would be a start.

I don't think most give Darnold a "pass" but he's still shown more with less talent, albeit with with more time under his belt.

Lock has a solid offensive line (by todays NFL standards) and plenty of weapons to at least look average but he's been one of the 5 worst quarterbacks this season undoubtedly.

2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

House about minshew had some of the grit that fitzpatrick has. And may be able to compete to make Lock better,? Thought he's Been solid for the jags

Minshew is just the new Fitzpatrick imo. One of the best backups you'll find but not someone you want starting week 1.

[thebestever6 962]

24 minutes ago, rcpbawler said:

no, Hamler hasn't been out the "majority" of the time.

Forget 30 points, putting up more than 16 a game would be a start.

I don't think most give Darnold a "pass" but he's still shown more with less talent, albeit with with more time under his belt.

Lock has a solid offensive line (by todays NFL standards) and plenty of weapons to at least look average but he's been one of the 5 worst quarterbacks this season undoubtedl

I'm not making excuses for him I continuisouly said he had to get more consistent, but that's to be expected from a young player.

Yes Hamler had been out a lot he's had two hamstring injuries anddd just got a concussion check your facts.

I think posters on this forum in general overrate the ability to upgrade at QB and the costs and the gains that can max you out at wild card team atm because the chiefs have taken over this division.

I also don't care that you don't care about Qbr it is used as a metric to see how a guy manages a game. You realize to upgrade the guy under center a 14 points in n the Qbr metric to get a guy in the Philip Rivers Teddy Bridgewater range of 64-66. You're spending 25 million for that guy annually to just be the gate keeper of the offense nothing amazing.

I'd much rather let Lock grow one more year now... If you see a guy like a Lance or Wilson that you think you can get instant results with by all means.

And you're making excuses for Darnold he's shown miniscule flashes of elevating the talent around him. He's no franchise Qb. Now if we can get him for competition I'd be all for it. 

 

 

Honestly Wentz is the only QB I'd say do what it takes to get him here. Because at his peak he was the mvp front runner. With a crazy nice QBR. And last year he did unbelievable things with practice squad wrs the last 5 games. 

And I watched him when that san fran game largely bc of him this year elevating a guy like Travis Fulgulm.

 

We have the cap space to take that Gamble I think carson us worth a roll of the dice I've seen him do it. And I don't think you have to pay the Sam Bradford first round price anymore.

He could be a Catalyst to make a run. That's the Vet QB you take a shot on. No way they have him and Jalen Hurts in camp next year that he a circus.

 

 

[AKRNA 840]

2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

I'm not in no way shape or form trying to make excuses for Lock. He literally is jeckle and hyde at QB this year. 6 out of the 12 games he started he's had a Qbr of over 60 which I'll take all day with a young nucleus around him and tim patrick coming out of no where.

The other 6 games it's been pretty bad I don't count the pittsburgh game bc he literally had one drive. So 6/11 games he's been adequate if you do a game by game breakdown.

 

I really think it's a moot point to generally upgrade the qb position starter wise. Sure, I expect a vet brought in Driskel was a complete joke.

 

You've mentioned that before. My reply is the same. He had more than a few games where he was absolutely awful until the game was out of hand in the 4th. He'd improve his stats drastically in junk time with a few late, meaningless drives. I think he's only had about 2 good games this year. 

[Broncofan 5,688]

Vet FA-wise, a few thoughts:

-God, a big no on the guys Allbright listed.   Minshew doesn't have the arm, or the anticipation to make up for the arm (you don't need the arm if you have the anticipation - he doesn't have either, though).   He was able to freelance early on, but now that D's have the book on him, he's just a backup level guy.    Dalton is so uninspired, and frankly, so is Foles.   As vet backups / caretakers for a rookie drafted QB - yeah, great, totally good call.    Make no mistake on Dalton - his big game this week was a reflection of no pass rush and awful CB's - not that he's even a league-average solution now.   None of these guys are even 2022 options, TBH.  A big fat no on all 3 guys Allbright listed.

-Honestly, I'll stick with my earlier call in other threads - give me Winston, or Fitzmagic.  At least Fitzmagic offers the dynamic nature to make the O run.   Winston offers the great ceiling too - and a year under Sean Payton, and LASIK surgery, well, it can only help.    Either only costs $, and neither breaks the bank. 

-It has yet to be mentioned - but a huge no on Mitch Trubisky.  He has the same issue as Blake Bortles - his throwing mechanics are terrible, and his processing skills are well below average.   He's feasting on bad D's the last 4 games.   Fortunately for CHI's fans, GB's pass D and rush have a good chance to remind them why they despaired for 2.75+ years.  

Vet trade-wise:

-Everyone would love Stafford in DEN.  No argument.  But it doesn't seem realistic that DET is trading him.   The new GM isn't likely going to deal a very affordably priced Stafford, they have so many other holes to fix.   The Fords love him too - and their draft position doesn't seem to put them in range for a guy they "have to have".  So, sadly, I do not see it.

-I suppose Wentz is likely a potential target - and his post-trade salary isn't awful (esp if PHI takes the 10M roster bonus, then it's 2/37 for the team trading for him - can PHI afford to take it though? Tougher Q).   But man, his mechanics are wrecked, and his confidence is shot.    Maybe that's the right project to take on, but it can't come at much of a draft pick cost, either.    

-If the Jets fall in love with Fields or Wilson - then yes, maybe we can revisit the Rd3 for Darnold talks.  Until then, though, that's on hold.

-If we were running a Shanny O - JimmyG will be one name that likely comes up IMO (because his contract is coming up after 2022).   If he's up for sale, though - I have a funny feeling the SF-NE connection hits up again, and we see him in NE.   Just putting my marker here for the record.

 

Rookie-wise:

-It's probably going to have to be a case where Lance/Wilson/Fields falls to us.   Trask doesn't have enough upside, those other 3 at least offer intriguing upside.   Wilson's stock is skyrocketing, so if there's a scenario I could see today, it's Lance.  Then again, the draft evaluation process is so wonky, who knows.  I think it's highly unlikely that this is plan A given how much 2021 is a make-or-break year for Fangio and Elway (and something I really despair about when it comes to draft evaluation, but that's another topic), but then again, if Elway falls in love with the top 4, and one is there (or close), well, he's not afraid to take his shot (remember, he tried to trade up for Darnold, just NYG GM Gettleman didn't answer his call, as he never trades back).

_______________________________

What I absolutely do know - we cannot go in 2021 with Lock alone as plan A, and Rypien/aging vet as plan B.  Rypien is a fine min-wage 3rd QB - but not our long-term solution.   Lock's either going to be a starter, or he's going to be out of the league - he doesn't have the game manager, come-in-cold backup traits IMO.   Either way, going to be an interesting offseason, to say the least.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Broncofan

[The Helicopter 97]

This team needs consistency and an off season together. If AAA is correct and new ownership is coming, then who gives a flying f about our QB situation this off-season. Draft the BPA and move on.

[rcpbawler 26]

2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

I'm not making excuses for him I continuisouly said he had to get more consistent, but that's to be expected from a young player.

Yes Hamler had been out a lot he's had two hamstring injuries anddd just got a concussion check your facts.

I think posters on this forum in general overrate the ability to upgrade at QB and the costs and the gains that can max you out at wild card team atm because the chiefs have taken over this division.

I also don't care that you don't care about Qbr it is used as a metric to see how a guy manages a game. You realize to upgrade the guy under center a 14 points in n the Qbr metric to get a guy in the Philip Rivers Teddy Bridgewater range of 64-66. You're spending 25 million for that guy annually to just be the gate keeper of the offense nothing amazing.

I'd much rather let Lock grow one more year now... If you see a guy like a Lance or Wilson that you think you can get instant results with by all means.

And you're making excuses for Darnold he's shown miniscule flashes of elevating the talent around him. He's no franchise Qb. Now if we can get him for competition I'd be all for it. 

 

 

Honestly Wentz is the only QB I'd say do what it takes to get him here. Because at his peak he was the mvp front runner. With a crazy nice QBR. And last year he did unbelievable things with practice squad wrs the last 5 games. 

 

 

Drew only played 2 games without KJ, 3 if you include this past week which he was out for the most of it. Definitely not the "majority" of the season.

I think posters can be overly harsh on players and quick to write them off on these forums, sure. It's not just that Drew Lock has played badly, it's that he hasn't shown any progress. Herbert showed more in his first start against the defending champs than Drew has shown in two years. I wanted badly for Drew to be the guy, and I still do, I just don't think he is.

 

 

[jsthomp2007 638]

Would a rookie and Cam Newton make sense?  If Cam came to Denver, he would have more offensive weapons than he has ever had.  Or, would Lock and Cam create a good competition that pushes both?   Or, does Cam just hate Denver so much because we keep beating him?  Then again...can you sell the notion of, "if you can't beat'em, join'em?"

[champ11 1,525]

Yeah, I'd rather just roll with Lock than add one of the bad vets listed. Because I'm desperate for some talent at the position lmao. Which is why I ideally would want a QB top 10. Drew may have "the arm" or whatever, but end of the day he was available mid second round. Of course the draft is a crap shoot. But the team is not going anywhere until we figure the QB thing out

[jsthomp2007 638]

24 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Yeah, I'd rather just roll with Lock than add one of the bad vets listed. Because I'm desperate for some talent at the position lmao. Which is why I ideally would want a QB top 10. Drew may have "the arm" or whatever, but end of the day he was available mid second round. Of course the draft is a crap shoot. But the team is not going anywhere until we figure the QB thing out

Maybe the Broncos can get Tim Connelly to sign up as a Pro Bono GM, and then he can sign Jokic to play QB.  

[broncosfan_101 371]

10 hours ago, rcpbawler said:

I think posters can be overly harsh on players and quick to write them off on these forums, sure. It's not just that Drew Lock has played badly, it's that he hasn't shown any progress. Herbert showed more in his first start against the defending champs than Drew has shown in two years. I wanted badly for Drew to be the guy, and I still do, I just don't think he is.

This is 100% the thing. For a guy with 46 SEC starts, you should absolutely see *some* kind of growth as a player between professional start #1 and professional start #20. There’s none. Nothing.