What to do at QB?

[thebestever6]

1 minute ago, BroncoBruin said:

I wouldn’t ever bet on Darnold becoming a QB to build around. But I also look at what Baker has done in Cleveland, what Tannehill has done in Tennessee, what Goff did for a while in LA, and I don’t see why young struggling guys like Darnold or Daniel Jones couldn’t have success in similar situations. The Shanahan offenses in particular almost never ask QBs to think, just to physically make the plays. I think it’s possible Darnold could be coached into success there.

That's what I was just about to post Shannys offense made Lock look good his rookie year definitely think he could maximize Sam.

[Broncofan]

24 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Why? What have you seen that I haven’t? 

Darnold has had terrible schemes to play with.   Team D’s report knowing the play scheme pre snap.  They use no pre snap motion to help tell the QB where the D is leaning (zone, man).   He’s also had extremely subpar OL play. 

Lock had a top 10 OL behind him this year.   Weapons that far surpass NYJ’s.   And while we despair at the game management no one would suggest our coaching or schemes are anywhere as inept as Adam Gase has proven to be.    To say he’s been given a positive environment to succeed compared to Darnold is very fair.  It’s indisputable.   Yet he engenders very little confidence he’s the solution.  
 

The final point - Lock is 1.5 years older.   And a 4-Year starter in a pro system in college.   That on its own lowers the ceiling.  You add the rest - no doubt both have high bust potential (why I’m not sold on dealing 2.9 for him) but the ceiling is still a lot higher with Darnold, high enough to be a more impactful QB if he realizes his potential.   It just doesn’t come with any more safety than Lock, either. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Broncofan

[AnAngryAmerican]

5 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Chubb isn’t an elite pass rusher though.   He’s a high motor guy and he’s good (not great as advertised) at run support.  As a rookie contract guy that’s more than ok.  
 

But once he’s getting 15M a year his value disappears.   That’s a huge reason why I’d be ok with the deal.   I’d be more ok with him in the deal than Dremont Jones.   
 

There’s no doubt we would be unlikely to bring a complete team until 2023-24 if we aren’t picking R1.  But getting an elite QB at below market salary actually makes it easier.   And Chubb isn’t the long term answer as the Mack level talent on D.  You get Watson he’s locked for 6 years.  And likely 10+On an extension.  At age 25 Watson is still at his peak at age 28-34 well after those picks being given up impacts us directly.     
 

 

My point wasn’t that Chubb is an elite pass rusher it was that he’s a piece we have in that niche but we’re very, very unlikely to get an elite pass rusher without a first round pick for 3 years. Criticize Chubb all you want as a better Robin or not a true alpha and I agree but he was exceptionally highly regarded as an EDGE prospect. You don’t normally find those guys in the later rounds. It’s also a day 1 impact position where you draft an elite EDGE and he will do work from day 1 on.

[paul-mac]

2 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Why? He's the 35th rated QB in the NFL. I get the "shoulda, coulda, woulda" but on the field he's sucked. 

A 1st rd pick is a lot for a failed reclamation project.

According to who?

[Broncofan]

1 minute ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

My point wasn’t that Chubb is an elite pass rusher it was that he’s a piece we have in that niche but we’re very, very unlikely to get an elite pass rusher without a first round pick for 3 years. Criticize Chubb all you want as a better Robin or not a true alpha and I agree but he was exceptionally highly regarded as an EDGE prospect. You don’t normally find those guys in the later rounds. It’s also a day 1 impact position where you draft an elite EDGE and he will do work from day 1 on.

Once you start paying Chubb at top 10 EDGE rates though his presence is no longer a huge plus.  That’s my point on Chubb and why he’s a tradeable asset now.  

[thebestever6]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

   And a 4-Year starter in a pro system in college.   That on its own lowers the ceiling

He didn't get pro concepts till his junior year, and Lock has had a new OC every year until this year Shurmer will be his first OC back to back.

I kinda tend to agree with @AnAngryAmerican kind of a good analogy tbh. Darnold also seems to get injured a lot like Lock as well.

[thebestever6]

PFF had Broncos line graded 25th that looks close to me. Bolles definitely stepped up but everyone else either regressed or was green.

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, Broncofan said:

 

IND & SF are already established contenders looking to win now.   Darnold is about ceiling and projection - what you hope he will become, not who he is now (thx Gase lol).    His appeal lies in his growth and development.  But it comes with the risk of growing pains in a new system.

For an org that isn’t quite at legitimate contender level like us (or even New England or Chicago), the risk of growing pains is ok because we’re not that close to serious contention yet.    His ceiling makes the risk ok (along with his skills that can play the short & deep & mobile QB game plan).   But there’s a really low floor.   For teams like SF and Indy who believe they are only a QB upgrade away - growing pains and low floors aren’t ok.   Pit is looking at him more as a successor to Big Ben not the week 1 starter.   Before you ask on Wentz & Indy - Wentz familiarity with Reich O are why Reich is interested.  
 

Gus like Carr & JimmyG (and Stafford) fit Indy’s requirements because they have a safe floor.   SF is looking to add verticality and deeper game proficiency so they looked at Stafford and then Cousins.  But they all came with an established and higher floor.    They could end up with Darnold but safe to say it’s not plan A, B or C.  
 

Teams that need a big leap but limited resources (Chi), are ok with their window opening up a year later (NE, us) or can groom him a year (Pit) are the most commonly cited for those reasons.  Assuming they don’t make other plans & NYJ decides to deal him (what a crazy year for wide outcomes). 

I got a good chuckle out of part of this. Pretty hard to talk about Darnold's ceiling when he's lowering his floor. We're talking sub basement at a minimum.😃

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

I'll be honest that 40 yard run he had against us was impressive I didn't realize he was that athletic. 

I also thought Herndon was the next big thing at te boy I was wrong 

Bubby Brister had one of the greatest runs ever by a QB when he was here also. 

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Darnold has had terrible schemes to play with.   Team D’s report knowing the play scheme pre snap.  They use no pre snap motion to help tell the QB where the D is leaning (zone, man).   He’s also had extremely subpar OL play. 

Lock had a top 10 OL behind him this year.  

Now that is news to me. Problem is, outside of the later season games with Doston in the lineup the OL in front of him was subpar at best. That's being nice. 

[Broncofan]

15 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

Now that is news to me. Problem is, outside of the later season games with Doston in the lineup the OL in front of him was subpar at best. That's being nice. 

That’s fair - Den was top 10 through week 11 but then fell apart once the RT carousel started along with the Interior OL changes.  
 

Having said that the Jets was bottom 3 in pass pro this year, again - far, far worse than what Den put up (finished 18th by DVOA).  

[thebestever6]

30 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

Bubby Brister had one of the greatest runs ever by a QB when he was here also. 

I'm not pimping out Darnold by any means I was never super high on him. I'm just saying for a late round one pick he gives you upside that not many QBs can at that spot. And you don't have to give up multiple firsts ala Derek Carr.

Darnold looked a lot more passable when he had his favorite target Robby anderson who the Jets just let walk .

 

Indy needs a Qb, Washington, Carolina, Chicago, Patriots , Saints . Some team is gonna need to take a chance on him. 

[bMiller031]

I’d do 2.9 for Darnold in the (likely) event that Watson isn’t in play for us. Great buy low opportunity and the type of risk you have to take w/o foreseeable certainty at QB and no plans to bottom out

[thebestever6]

Anyone buy we're linked to Tyrod Taylor?

[thebestever6]

22 QBs were drafted in the first round from 2009-2016 only one remains with the team that drafted them Carson Wentz.