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Week 17: Miami Dolphins (10-5) @ Buffalo Bills (12-3)


TheKillerNacho

MIA @ BUF  

13 members have voted

  1. 1. Who wins?

    • Miami Dolphins
    • Buffalo Bills

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  • Poll closed on 01/03/2021 at 06:05 PM

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6 minutes ago, Deadeye said:

I never said it was.  But an honest evaluation of the offense supports the conclusion that we are slow in the WR group.  That is the single biggest talent issue on offense.

well yeah. we were trotting out a hobbled Devante Parker and a bunch of 5th/6th stringers out there

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I like Parker and Preston Williams, but after today I would like to move on from Ford and Grant is really on the bubble.  I love having the rangy big catch radius guys in Parker and Williams but we need a WR to pair with them that can take the top off the Defense and can work underneath as a dynamic YAC player.  We also need a substantial talent boost at the RB position and an upgrade at the ILB position.  These can all be easily addressed via the 2021 draft but a huge need of ours that I don’t see coming from this draft is a dynamic edge rusher.  We have struggled to get consistent pressure on QBs all season and as good as our CBs are that really shouldn’t be an issue.  We will have to look towards FA to find a dynamic pass rusher because I just don’t see any in the 2021 draft.

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4 minutes ago, Swampbilly said:

I like Parker and Preston Williams, but after today I would like to move on from Ford and Grant is really on the bubble.  I love having the rangy big catch radius guys in Parker and Williams but we need a WR to pair with them that can take the top off the Defense and can work underneath as a dynamic YAC player.  We also need a substantial talent boost at the RB position and an upgrade at the ILB position.  These can all be easily addressed via the 2021 draft but a huge need of ours that I don’t see coming from this draft is a dynamic edge rusher.  We have struggled to get consistent pressure on QBs all season and as good as our CBs are that really shouldn’t be an issue.  We will have to look towards FA to find a dynamic pass rusher because I just don’t see any in the 2021 draft.

I have to doubt that any WR on the roster currently, even Parker, is in the long term plans. 

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Just now, FinSting said:

Finishing out the season with two straight road games during the holidays must've sucked for the team and their families. They looked flat as a pancake for both games. 

Bring on that April draft. 

 

Free agency will tell us a lot about their plans for the draft. 

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That game was painful to watch.  We saw the usual things like LBs failing to make plays in the hole in the run game; some terrible playcalling by Gailey; and the ragtag collection of #5 WRs drop countless balls and fail to help even  a little bit, but the really bad part for me was how poorly others played.  Byron Jones got absolutely abused this game.  What an embarrassing showing for one of the highest paid corners in football.  The pick in the 1st quarter was terrific.  And then he proceeded to play maybe the worst game I've seen him play.  

And then there's Tua.  Again, yes, the receiving was abysmal.  But he just didn't have his trademark accuracy this game and a few of his decisions were more than iffy.  He was not impressive today.  

Tough to be happy about the season after that Week 17 dismantling and a missed playoffs, but it's important to look at the big picture.  I think most people saw an 8-8 season as optimistic.  They ended up 10-6, with FA money to burn if they want, and tons of draft capital.  This team isn't ready to compete with the big boys, but by this time next year?  Gonna be a fun one.  

 

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Tua has had 3 horrific first halfs in a row, I just do not see any spark or "it" factor when he is on the field. I personally feel Miami should do what the Cardinals did and take another shot at QB with either Lawrence or Fields. This draft will be the only real shot to do that. I know this is not a popular thing with the majority of fans, but with other young QBs I just see more arm strength and scrambling quickness then I see with Tua but I also admit I have not been a fan of Tua from the start but that is another conversation. Even if Miami were to draft another QB there would be value in Tuq or the guy drafted that would pay dividends down the road, if Tua does not reach greatness and Miami fails to insure against that happening it will be another long decade. 

It was a great year this team really out performed its talent level as a whole and I am really looking forward to the draft and next season no matter who the QB is.

Fins UP!

 

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28 minutes ago, Dolphinmeister said:

Tua has had 3 horrific first halfs in a row, I just do not see any spark or "it" factor when he is on the field. I personally feel Miami should do what the Cardinals did and take another shot at QB with either Lawrence or Fields. This draft will be the only real shot to do that. I know this is not a popular thing with the majority of fans, but with other young QBs I just see more arm strength and scrambling quickness then I see with Tua but I also admit I have not been a fan of Tua from the start but that is another conversation. Even if Miami were to draft another QB there would be value in Tuq or the guy drafted that would pay dividends down the road, if Tua does not reach greatness and Miami fails to insure against that happening it will be another long decade. 

It was a great year this team really out performed its talent level as a whole and I am really looking forward to the draft and next season no matter who the QB is.

Fins UP!

 

I'm on the other side, I do think he has that "IT" factor, he has had some rookie moments holding the ball too long, a couple errant throws, but all in all I have liked his accuracy and arm strength. He can't help the lack of talent he has been throwing to coupled with a run game that was missing for a chunk of the season. It has been less than a full season with limited training camp. 

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1 hour ago, Dolphinmeister said:

Tua has had 3 horrific first halfs in a row, I just do not see any spark or "it" factor when he is on the field. I personally feel Miami should do what the Cardinals did and take another shot at QB with either Lawrence or Fields. This draft will be the only real shot to do that. I know this is not a popular thing with the majority of fans, but with other young QBs I just see more arm strength and scrambling quickness then I see with Tua but I also admit I have not been a fan of Tua from the start but that is another conversation. Even if Miami were to draft another QB there would be value in Tuq or the guy drafted that would pay dividends down the road, if Tua does not reach greatness and Miami fails to insure against that happening it will be another long decade. 

It was a great year this team really out performed its talent level as a whole and I am really looking forward to the draft and next season no matter who the QB is.

Fins UP!

 

Those first half performances were way more about the horrid playcalling and weapons tbh.

Want nothing to do with Fields.

0% chance we could land Lawrence.

Tua is our guy. We build around him. If he doesn't show improvement next year, we can have this conversation but at this point I see little reason to be pessimistic about his longterm outlook. Throwing another rookie into the fire with  our subpar offensive talent is not the answer when we have a unique opportunity to greatly improve our level of talent across the board in one offseason.

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36 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

Those first half performances were way more about the horrid playcalling and weapons tbh.

Want nothing to do with Fields.

0% chance we could land Lawrence.

Tua is our guy. We build around him. If he doesn't show improvement next year, we can have this conversation but at this point I see little reason to be pessimistic about his longterm outlook. Throwing another rookie into the fire with  our subpar offensive talent is not the answer when we have a unique opportunity to greatly improve our level of talent across the board in one offseason.

This.  If Tua is given the big offensive weapon upgrades we all think are coming this offseason, and still isn't capable of scoring more next year, we can move on from there.  

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12 hours ago, hrubes20 said:

This.  If Tua is given the big offensive weapon upgrades we all think are coming this offseason, and still isn't capable of scoring more next year, we can move on from there.  

I think as long as Tua shows solid improvement in his first 3 seasons then it’s a big gamble to move on with the exception being a diamond in the rough like a 6th round QB Tom Brady type of thing.

52.8% completion, 2074 yds, 10TD, 12 INT, 49.8 QBR, 11 games started

64.1, 1814, 11TD, 5INT, 52.9, 9 games started

first stat line is Josh Allen rookie season......second stat line is Tua.  Let’s get the kid some experience and some weapons.

 

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2 hours ago, Swampbilly said:

I think as long as Tua shows solid improvement in his first 3 seasons then it’s a big gamble to move on with the exception being a diamond in the rough like a 6th round QB Tom Brady type of thing.

52.8% completion, 2074 yds, 10TD, 12 INT, 49.8 QBR, 11 games started

64.1, 1814, 11TD, 5INT, 52.9, 9 games started

first stat line is Josh Allen rookie season......second stat line is Tua.  Let’s get the kid some experience and some weapons.

 

Tough to compare Tua and Josh Allen, as Allen has the elite tools that Tua doesn't.  A more athletic lefty Drew Brees is where I've always gone with Tua.  I checked how Brees fared as a rookie and was surprised that he barely played.  He didn't start until year 2.  But his stats in that first year starting?

60.8% completion, 3,284 yds, 17 TDs, 16 INTs in 16 games.  

In other words, he was worse than Tua in just about every way possible.  He had iffy receivers that year like Tua does, but had one LaDainian Tomlinson in the backfield.  

Brees was even worse in his 2nd year starting with a similarly questionable group of receivers.  But in that 3rd year?  Antonio Gates became the all-pro that we all know him as and Brees made the Pro Bowl and the Chargers went 12-4.  (Yes, Tomlinson was still there and still amazing).  

 

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44 minutes ago, hrubes20 said:

Tough to compare Tua and Josh Allen, as Allen has the elite tools that Tua doesn't.  A more athletic lefty Drew Brees is where I've always gone with Tua.  I checked how Brees fared as a rookie and was surprised that he barely played.  He didn't start until year 2.  But his stats in that first year starting?

60.8% completion, 3,284 yds, 17 TDs, 16 INTs in 16 games.  

In other words, he was worse than Tua in just about every way possible.  He had iffy receivers that year like Tua does, but had one LaDainian Tomlinson in the backfield.  

Brees was even worse in his 2nd year starting with a similarly questionable group of receivers.  But in that 3rd year?  Antonio Gates became the all-pro that we all know him as and Brees made the Pro Bowl and the Chargers went 12-4.  (Yes, Tomlinson was still there and still amazing).  

 

I think any QB you have to give them 3 years unless it is just clear they do not have it and will not acquire it, (Haskins). Mayfield lit it up his first season then regressed. Brees was so bad they drafted Manning then traded for Rivers then Brees all of a sudden flipped a switch. We cannot be impatient. The careers of Tua, Herbert and Burrows have yet to be determined. 

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7 minutes ago, Phinsesq said:

I think any QB you have to give them 3 years unless it is just clear they do not have it and will not acquire it, (Haskins). Mayfield lit it up his first season then regressed. Brees was so bad they drafted Manning then traded for Rivers then Brees all of a sudden flipped a switch. We cannot be impatient. The careers of Tua, Herbert and Burrows have yet to be determined. 

I get the consternation when looking at Herbert's season.  He put up some terrific, record breaking numbers.  But it baffles me why some people think Tua was absolutely horrific and is unredeemable, yet Joe Burrow looked like a surefire franchise QB.  I know recency bias of that Buffalo game is going to sour many on Tua, but it's a bit of a knee-jerk.

Burrow: 65.3% completion, 2688 yards, 6.7 YPA, 13 TDs, 5 INTs, 9 fumbles (4 lost), 89.8 Rating, 56.5 QBR

Tua: 64.1% completion, 1814 yards, 6.3 YPA, 11 TDs, 5 INTs, 1 fumbles (1 lost), 87.1 Rating, 52.9 QBR

Both had suspect line play through out the year, although admittedly Cincy's line was worse, but Burrow had a clear, huge advantage in supporting cast.  

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1 hour ago, hrubes20 said:

Tough to compare Tua and Josh Allen, as Allen has the elite tools that Tua doesn't.  A more athletic lefty Drew Brees is where I've always gone with Tua.  I checked how Brees fared as a rookie and was surprised that he barely played.  He didn't start until year 2.  But his stats in that first year starting?

60.8% completion, 3,284 yds, 17 TDs, 16 INTs in 16 games.  

In other words, he was worse than Tua in just about every way possible.  He had iffy receivers that year like Tua does, but had one LaDainian Tomlinson in the backfield.  

Brees was even worse in his 2nd year starting with a similarly questionable group of receivers.  But in that 3rd year?  Antonio Gates became the all-pro that we all know him as and Brees made the Pro Bowl and the Chargers went 12-4.  (Yes, Tomlinson was still there and still amazing).  

 

No issues with the Brees comparison, but my point is that Allen wasn’t looking so great his rookie season and look at how good he looks now.  Other than that, so much of the QB position is mental that the physical tools outside of vision and arm talent aren’t the best way to measure a QB’s potential success rate, so IMO its great that a QB prospect has elite measurables like Allen has but physical tools don’t matter if he doesn’t demonstrate the intangibles such as the ability to read leverage and throw with anticipation.

Edited by Swampbilly
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