jrry32 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Just now, Bullet Club said: I'm specifically referring to your 7 starts to 38 starts comparison. I would hope you understand why it's easier to talk yourself into a reclamation project when you have no first round pick and the #1 overall pick from the prior draft who had only made 7 starts to that point versus a situation where you have the #2 overall pick and a former top 10 pick who will have already made 38 starts. Plenty of guys bounce back from bad rookie years. There aren't many guys who have bounced back after playing poorly for three years. I understand the circumstances are poor, but it's still three years of ineffective play. Trying to talk about what Darnold would or wouldn't be on the 2018 Rams isn't relevant. Nobody knows. We only know what he has been so far. And now, the Jets have to make a decision on whether to pass on a potential franchise QB to stick with Darnold or move on from Darnold based on what he's shown to this point in his career. It's not an easy call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, jrry32 said: I would hope you understand why it's easier to talk yourself into a reclamation project when you have no first round pick and the #1 overall pick from the prior draft who had only made 7 starts to that point versus a situation where you have the #2 overall pick and a former top 10 pick who will have already made 38 starts. Plenty of guys bounce back from bad rookie years. There aren't many guys who have bounced back after playing poorly for three years. I understand the circumstances are poor, but it's still three years of ineffective play. Trying to talk about what Darnold would or wouldn't be on the 2018 Rams isn't relevant. Nobody knows. We only know what he has been so far. And now, the Jets have to make a decision on whether to pass on a potential franchise QB to stick with Darnold or move on from Darnold based on what he's shown to this point in his career. It's not an easy call. I do understand that and I'm aware it's not an easy call. I'm adding context to the starts comparison as they are not in any way equal. Coaching matters. Look what Tannehill has done since he left Gase. Surrounding talent matters. Look at the impact healthy/prime Gurley had on Goff and how he's played without him. I'm not saying Darnold is a bonafide stud or that the Jets must move forward with him. I'm saying he's been pretty much thrust into the worst situation possible and that matters. He still improved from year one to year two and had a winning record. If the Jets love a QB at #2 then by all means take him. If they don't, maybe give the guy they have some talent to work with. They are in a good spot to do just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: I do understand that and I'm aware it's not an easy call. I'm adding context to the starts comparison as they are not in any way equal. Coaching matters. Look what Tannehill has done since he left Gase. Surrounding talent matters. Look at the impact healthy/prime Gurley had on Goff and how he's played without him. I'm not saying Darnold is a bonafide stud or that the Jets must move forward with him. I'm saying he's been pretty much thrust into the worst situation possible and that matters. He still improved from year one to year two and had a winning record. If the Jets love a QB at #2 then by all means take him. If they don't, maybe give the guy they have some talent to work with. They are in a good spot to do just that. That context isn't helpful to the point. Do you think a team is more likely to stick with a high draft pick after one bad rookie season or three bad seasons? The point isn't what Goff did AFTER McVay. It was about comparing the situations BEFORE that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nzd07 Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, jrry32 said: That context isn't helpful to the point. Do you think a team is more likely to stick with a high draft pick after one bad rookie season or three bad seasons? The point isn't what Goff did AFTER McVay. It was about comparing the situations BEFORE that point. Yes, tbh I didn't realize Darnold has already been in the league that long. They'd probably be better off trying to get their hands on Stafford/Ryan, and building around them. If they can't, then draft a QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Nzd07 said: Yes, tbh I didn't realize Darnold has already been in the league that long. They'd probably be better off trying to get their hands on Stafford/Ryan, and building around them. If they can't, then draft a QB. He's 23. Younger than Burrow and ~250 days older than Tua and Herbert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Just now, Bullet Club said: He's 23. Younger than Burrow and ~250 days older than Tua and Herbert. And that's a fair point. But it's going to take some serious balls as a GM to pass on a QB. Because if Darnold doesn't pan out and any QB you pass over does, the fanbase will not be forgiving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 They're almost guaranteed the second overall pick, so given that Darnold hasn't shown much of anything, I would draft a QB. Fields is a good prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: He's 23. Younger than Burrow and ~250 days older than Tua and Herbert. Sometimes it's funny comparing points across sports. Football and baseball, age is a real thing...if you're 23 in the NHL, you basically are what you are and there's no real question about your upside at that age any more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Daniel said: They're almost guaranteed the second overall pick, so given that Darnold hasn't shown much of anything, I would draft a QB. Fields is a good prospect. They are guaranteed the second pick. The #3 team has 4 wins, which the Jets can't reach with one week remaining. The top 2 picks are locked at this point, Jax and Jets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, jrry32 said: And that's a fair point. But it's going to take some serious balls as a GM to pass on a QB. Because if Darnold doesn't pan out and any QB you pass over does, the fanbase will not be forgiving. If the Jets think they have a better shot with Wilson/Fields/Lance they should absolutely go with them. My question is moreso will they fair any better if the coaching/surrounding talent isn't fixed? If you draft Sewell/Bateman in round 1 and get a real coach you might have an opportunity to see what you really have with him. If it doesn't work out they will pick high again next year and have surrounding talent for the next guy. Again, if they love a guy at #2, this is all moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, Forge said: Sometimes it's funny comparing points across sports. Football and baseball, age is a real thing...if you're 23 in the NHL, you basically are what you are and there's no real question about your upside at that age any more. In the NBA you can be 23 and on your second contract. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: If the Jets think they have a better shot with Wilson/Fields/Lance they should absolutely go with them. My question is moreso will they fair any better if the coaching/surrounding talent isn't fixed? If you draft Sewell/Bateman in round 1 and get a real coach you might have an opportunity to see what you really have with him. If it doesn't work out they will pick high again next year and have surrounding talent for the next guy. Again, if they love a guy at #2, this is all moot. The Jets have a lot of picks and money. They should be able to afford to give a new QB better help if they draft one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Forge said: They are guaranteed the second pick. The #3 team has 4 wins, which the Jets can't reach with one week remaining. The top 2 picks are locked at this point, Jax and Jets. Even better. Take Fields, sign enough support, roll over some cap. Teams that try to buy their way into playoff contention in a big spending season almost never do. I just can't believe the Jets would let themselves win two games this late in the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 I think it depends who the new coach is and what they want. The Adam Gase factor means more to me then what Darnold has done in his 38 starts. He's a bad coach, with a bad track record outside of Peyton Manning, and a history of players (QB in particular) that have improved after leaving him.Darnold also progressed from year 1 to year 2 under Bowles. I'd stay with Darnold, trade #2 overall for a best haul I could get, and use my FA money to bring in veteran pass catchers that fit whatever the new system is. You can turn that team around in a year to be a WC in 2021. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflbillsfan Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) I still think this is the most difficult an organization can be in. They just have so many issues and and beyond qb that they need to just build a foundation, if for some reason a team like Carolina, Detroit or any other top 10 pick wants a qb calls you should just make the move down and build up a roster. While Darnold may or may not be your franchise qb the guy you are going to put in place may not succeed. I know Douglas is a different GM but you had Mac who was given a 100 mil in cap space the pick to move up for darnold and then you do nothing that would help darnold be successful. The weapons on that team are mediocre, the one shining guy is your slot receiver in crowder. Mims is questionable on whether or not he is the future. Bechton is a nice piece but outside of that who can protect the qb, who is running the ball, who is their te, herndon hasnt turned out to what they expected. They just do not have weapons. I know their best defensive player opted out in Mosley but outside of him and Quinnen williams who do they have that you can be confident in being a stud on defense? Marcus Maye seems to be the only pass defending threat and he is a FA. The CBs are mediocre at best. So if they drafted fields at 2 will they be a year or 2 away from contending? If not then your now in the same position you are currently with Darnold. Not to mention the inept coaching staff they currently have. You have to go find coaching staff for them not to only review the players they have but also fa and the draft all in a short period of time. So to pick the most important position in that short period of time I would just trade the pick or go BPA at 2 whether it is qb or it is OT etc. Edited December 30, 2020 by soflbillsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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