MikeT14 Presents: 30 for 30 - The Quarterback Rotation in DC

[turtle28]

16 hours ago, Woz said:

Gonna have to disagree with you on the recollections there. If not for his bizarre decision to try and make a touchdown celebration out of headbutting concrete pylons, he could have been Washington's version (albeit maybe a poor man's version) of Tony Romo.

Not a chance, look at Frerotte’s production. The other 3 were better, Brunnell had a 22 TD season in 2005. 
 

Gus was a 52% passer while in a Redskins uniform. He only threw above 3,000 passing yards once & never threw for even 20 TDs in a Washington uniform.

The idea of Gus Frerotte being better than he was probably rundown wild through the Washington fanbase and I think that’s in large part because as a 7th round pick he was better than our top 5 pick in 1994, Heath Shuler, but that doesn’t make Gus a better QB than Trent Green, Jason Campbell or Mark Brunell.

As to Gus possibility developing into a  Tony Romo for the Redskins, are you kidding me? 
 

Tony Romo is arguably one of the best QBs to never win a Super Bowl, Gus Frerotte on the other hand only completed 60% of his passes once in 15 years and never threw for over 3500 yards & 20 TDs.

Edited January 5, 2021 by turtle28

[MikeT14]

I am bumping because I've got two more to add to this thread... and with good reason. John Keim just did this. Thought it would be funny to compare. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32202487/as-washington-football-team-qb-quest-enters-year-29-espn-analytics-ranks-30-starters 

 

	Rank	Keim's rank	Difference
Kirk Cousins	1	1	0
Brad Johnson	2	2	0
Alex Smith	3	18	-15
Robert Griffin III	4	3	1
Gus Frerotte	5	4	1
Mark Brunell	6	12	-6
Jason Campbell	7	5	2
Trent Green	8	10	-2
Todd Collins	9	9	0
Taylor Heinicke	10	29	-19
Tony Banks	11	15	-4
Patrick Ramsey	12	8	4
Colt McCoy	13	7	6
Kyle Allen	14	26	-12
Shane Matthews	15	21	-6
Rex Grossman	16	13	3
Donovan McNabb	17	6	11
Jeff Hostetler	18	22	-4
Danny Wuerffel	19	24	-5
John Friez	20	11	9
Josh Johnson	21	27	-6
Rich Gannon	22	25	-3
Case Keenum	23	16	7
Tim Hasselbeck	24	20	4
Dwayne Haskins	25	19	6
Heath Shuler	26	17	9
John Beck	27	23	4
Jeff George	28	14	14
Cary Conklin	29	28	1
Ryan Fitzpatrick	30	31	-1
Mark Sanchez	31	30	1

 

Biggest takeaways was their math/take on Alex Smith vs mine. I kinda get what they did with Heinicke - mine's based on emotion as much as anything. We're going to talk about that game for a long time. His rankings for George and McNabb are terrible to me. The lack of love for Brunell was a little shocking. Ramsey, Friez, McNabb, and Collins ahead of him is questionable. 

[MikeT14]

 

 Another list to compare. This one is a lot closer to mine. 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, MikeT14 said:

 

 Another list to compare. This one is a lot closer to mine. 

This is awesome/sad. Thanks Mike. The whole Kirk Cousins fiasco will continue to irk me until the day we find a QB who’s better than him. I agree with you & Ben on Alex Smith as well. I don’t understand why Keim had Alex so low. I don’t understand why Ben Standing has Heath Shuler so high, that stood out to me as off. He shouldn’t be above Colt IMO.
 

It’s really sad how much this franchise has been average to awful at QB play for 27 years.

Edited September 16, 2021 by turtle28

[TOUCAN]

Not one QB has started more than 4 seasons in Washington since I was a tot. This is wild.

[turtle28]

7 hours ago, JoshstraDaymus said:

Not one QB has started more than 4 seasons in Washington since I was a tot. This is wild.

Just effin sad

[Woz]

8 hours ago, JoshstraDaymus said:

Not one QB has started more than 4 seasons in Washington since I was a tot. This is wild.

Only one hast started more than three years and that was Kirk Cousins.

[turtle28]

5 hours ago, Woz said:

Only one hast started more than three years and that was Kirk Cousins.

And what’s sad about that is that wasn’t Kirk’s fault, like Trent Green & Brad Johnson before him & unlike the other guys who couldn’t cut it, Kirk had earned a long term deal. Our owner/team President at the time just didn’t what to give him the long term deal he had earned so Kirk’s playoff win that we’ve been longing for since 05-06 happened in Minnesota instead of DC. 😥

[TheGreeK1973]

6 hours ago, turtle28 said:

And what’s sad about that is that wasn’t Kirk’s fault, like Trent Green & Brad Johnson before him & unlike the other guys who couldn’t cut it, Kirk had earned a long term deal. Our owner/team President at the time just didn’t what to give him the long term deal he had earned so Kirk’s playoff win that we’ve been longing for since 05-06 happened in Minnesota instead of DC. 😥

Don't even get me started on the Kirk debacle.  That is why I still have him on my thumbnail, No he is not all world with the Vikings but he would be better if he had stayed here IMO.  Neverminded we would not have spend a 1st on Haskins.  Lets hope Heinicke is that for us at least for the next couple of years.

[Slateman]

Does Heinicke throw deep? Feel like we dont see a lot of deep passing with him.

[MikeT14]

4 minutes ago, Slateman said:

Does Heinicke throw deep? Feel like we dont see a lot of deep passing with him.

Not sure he really has the arm for that. Colt, Brees, etc

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, Slateman said:

Does Heinicke throw deep? Feel like we dont see a lot of deep passing with him.

I’m sure can, but I feel like w/ Colt & Brees as @MikeT14 was saying he’s going to need a lot of time and protection to sling the ball 40 yards plus downfield. He doesn’t have a strong arm, so he’s not one of these elite QBs who can just drop back and fling it 40 plus yards downfield with ease. Heinicke seems like the type that needs more time to load up with his lower body and everything to really heave it 40 plus yards downfield.

[Woz]

23 hours ago, Slateman said:

Does Heinicke throw deep? Feel like we dont see a lot of deep passing with him.

I guess it depends on what your definition of "deep" is. If you are looking for 40+ air yard bombs, then yes, you are likely going to be disappointed. If, however, you are using the NFL definition of "deep" (20+ air yards), he did show that he was willing and able to go long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4JyKZVykMs (NFL is being their normal d-bag self and not allowing embedding here)

First play: standing on the WAS 8, Brown catching on the WAS 35
Fourth play: standing on the NYG 36, McLaurin catching on NYG 11
Fifth play: standing on the NYG 18, McLauring catching middle of the end zone
Sixth play: standing on the WAS 19, Thomas catching on WAS 47
Ninth play: standing on the WAS 17, McKissic catching on WAS 48 (adds a whole bunch of YAC on top of that)
Tenth play: standing on the NYG 27, Seals-Jones catching in the back corner of the end zone

 

Is it likely to be a major part of his game? Perhaps not. However, it isn't like Smith who seemed to have an aversion to taking those deep shots. They do go vertical. Also, keep in mind, I was focusing solely on deep shots purely via the air. Heinicke showed a willingness to go for those middle range shots as well.

Now, the one concern is that his deep balls tend to go high and require his receivers to jump up to get them. His accuracy on deep shots is not great, the McKissic throw being the major exception. The good news is that he has receivers with great catch radii. The bad news is that limits their ability to get YAC as well as set them up for a higher chance of injury.

[turtle28]

38 minutes ago, Woz said:

I guess it depends on what your definition of "deep" is. If you are looking for 40+ air yard bombs, then yes, you are likely going to be disappointed. If, however, you are using the NFL definition of "deep" (20+ air yards), he did show that he was willing and able to go long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4JyKZVykMs (NFL is being their normal d-bag self and not allowing embedding here)

First play: standing on the WAS 8, Brown catching on the WAS 35
Fourth play: standing on the NYG 36, McLaurin catching on NYG 11
Fifth play: standing on the NYG 18, McLauring catching middle of the end zone
Sixth play: standing on the WAS 19, Thomas catching on WAS 47
Ninth play: standing on the WAS 17, McKissic catching on WAS 48 (adds a whole bunch of YAC on top of that)
Tenth play: standing on the NYG 27, Seals-Jones catching in the back corner of the end zone

 

Is it likely to be a major part of his game? Perhaps not. However, it isn't like Smith who seemed to have an aversion to taking those deep shots. They do go vertical. Also, keep in mind, I was focusing solely on deep shots purely via the air. Heinicke showed a willingness to go for those middle range shots as well.

Now, the one concern is that his deep balls tend to go high and require his receivers to jump up to get them. His accuracy on deep shots is not great, the McKissic throw being the major exception. The good news is that he has receivers with great catch radii. The bad news is that limits their ability to get YAC as well as set them up for a higher chance of injury.

I feel like the Heinicke accuracy will improve more as he plays more. He’s still settling in as our starter and he seems to by hyped/trying to settle in at the beginning of games when he’s throwing high. He wasn’t throwing high in the second half of the game.

[Woz]

15 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I feel like the Heinicke accuracy will improve more as he plays more. He’s still settling in as our starter and he seems to by hyped/trying to settle in at the beginning of games when he’s throwing high. He wasn’t throwing high in the second half of the game.

Eh, not so sure about that. Watching the highlight video I saw that on multiple throws even late.