2021 FA and Trade Talks

[Jag68Sid87]

20 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

The worrisome part of JDs press was them once again saying FA isn’t a priority. If we are in fact drafting a QB at 2... how are we getting that guy talent? We’ve failed our QBs for the last 20 years by giving them no talent. So what will change with a new QB if we aren’t willing to bring in the AR15, Godwin type guys to help that QB? Nothing.

 

If we are resetting the young QB clock... we have to change our approach on building around a QB. 

This is why trading down and trading Darnold make a ton of sense for us. If we had any other marketable players we could trade, we could do that as well. Accumulate as many draft picks as possible and try to fill holes via the draft as best we can. 

Of course, by the time the draft rolls around, we will know exactly what we (still) need. But I think Douglas is trying to keep expectations at an even keel. I do not believe he is going to be quiet when free agency opens in two weeks, but rather he is going to be looking for guys who fit. I think he wants to avoid bidding wars, because let's face it...agents use desperate teams like the Jets to drive up prices for the teams their players actually want to play for. I think he is going to try to avoid the Le'Veon Bell signings (hey, I loved that signing but it turned out brutally bad for us, thanks in no small part to Adam Gase of course, but still). 

I think we can still add very important pieces via free agency without going after the top tier. We need veterans, imo. Guys who can take hold of the locker room and be the sound piece for the coaching staff. Obviously, former 49ers would be ideal for that. 

I am not even as big of a Douglas guy as many of you, but I do think loading up on big-ticket free agents for a 2-14 team is a recipe for disaster (and something this organization has done far too often in the past).

There is no question, we need to hit major home runs with our draft picks this year (and next).

[Bobby816]

I question his drafting though. Let’s be real... he had a good pick in Becton.

What did anyone after that do last year to say we should trust his drafting? Everyone after that did nothing really.

[Jag68Sid87]

Just now, Bobby816 said:

I question his drafting though. Let’s be real... he had a good pick in Becton.

What did anyone after that do last year to say we should trust his drafting? Everyone after that did nothing really.

That's fair. Although, if he is not good at drafting, he will not be long for this (or any other GM) job in the NFL.

[xrade]

6 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I question his drafting though. Let’s be real... he had a good pick in Becton.

What did anyone after that do last year to say we should trust his drafting? Everyone after that did nothing really.

And by hitting on Becton, that alone makes him worlds better than our previous GM’s. But really, did you expect our 3-7 round picks to contribute much?  Those are the rounds you get those developmental prospect with hopes they can be starters one season. The only reason Hall and Davis played is because we lacked so much talent   that they had to be thrown in there.  Morgan was never going to be more than a career backup. That is a valuable coin to have. Whether he can do that is another story. Zuniga was hurt most of the year so I hope to see him play more and better. He is certainly better than the edge our last GM chose who did not even make the damn team. Judge JD in a couple of years with a competent coaching staff. There can be no other way. 

[KingOfNewYork]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

I question his drafting though. Let’s be real... he had a good pick in Becton.

What did anyone after that do last year to say we should trust his drafting? Everyone after that did nothing really.

Mims showed good things at times but he played with a bad QB. Mann was legit. Perine/Davis were hit or miss but not exactly terrible. Zuniga was non-existent but did start the year injured. Hall looks really good for us. Clark didn't play, Morgan was never going to play. 

All in all it was a good year 1 for the rookie class. Nothing extremely bad and enough evidence to be hopeful in their progression. 

[Bobby816]

47 minutes ago, xrade said:

And by hitting on Becton, that alone makes him worlds better than our previous GM’s. But really, did you expect our 3-7 round picks to contribute much?  Those are the rounds you get those developmental prospect with hopes they can be starters one season. The only reason Hall and Davis played is because we lacked so much talent   that they had to be thrown in there.  Morgan was never going to be more than a career backup. That is a valuable coin to have. Whether he can do that is another story. Zuniga was hurt most of the year so I hope to see him play more and better. He is certainly better than the edge our last GM chose who did not even make the damn team. Judge JD in a couple of years with a competent coaching staff. There can be no other way. 

Not true. Did Macc not hit on Q?

My point is merely that we talk about his drafting like he has a good track record. But his draft last year says otherwise. There’s 0 proof that he drafted good last year. There’s a lot that still has to be judged yet. But no one produced at a decently high level after Becton.

Mims didn’t do much. Blame that on who you want... but he didn’t.

Davis was a below average S when given time.

Zuniga didn’t even play.

Perine did pretty much nothing with the snaps he was given.

Clarke never played.

Morgan was never active.

Hall is the best of the bunch, but still wasn’t exactly an asset as a rookie.

[Bobby816]

5 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Mims showed good things at times but he played with a bad QB. Mann was legit. Perine/Davis were hit or miss but not exactly terrible. Zuniga was non-existent but did start the year injured. Hall looks really good for us. Clark didn't play, Morgan was never going to play. 

All in all it was a good year 1 for the rookie class. Nothing extremely bad and enough evidence to be hopeful in their progression. 

Ya so it wasn’t good after a Becton as I said

[KingOfNewYork]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

Ya so it wasn’t good after a Becton as I said

It wasn't bad either, you do realize they're rookies right? There is bound to be growing pains. 

[Bobby816]

Just now, KingOfNewYork said:

It wasn't bad either, you do realize they're rookies right? There is bound to be growing pains. 

It’s a bunch of excuses. Mims wasn’t good Bc of injury, Darnold and Gase. Zuniga is injury. Davis was that he was throwing in too fast, Clarke injury, Morgan being groomed, Perine Bc of a bad OL, Hall Bc he was forced to start too soon. The excuses never stop. 

[KingOfNewYork]

4 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

It’s a bunch of excuses. Mims wasn’t good Bc of injury, Darnold and Gase. Zuniga is injury. Davis was that he was throwing in too fast, Clarke injury, Morgan being groomed, Perine Bc of a bad OL, Hall Bc he was forced to start too soon. The excuses never stop. 

Those aren't excuses especially injuries. Mims literally had injuries to both hamstrings, how was Clark going to play if he couldn't practice? Same with Zuniga? Remember these kids had no off-season program either. Morgan you cant even criticize because he was 3rd string all season, how can criticize a 3rd string QB? OL play has more to do with quality Running Back performance than anything so of course Perine wasn't going to be great, look at the rest of the backs for example. Davis is raw, he was going to struggle but he showed good speed out there and he can hit. Hall was really good so I dont even know where the criticism of him is coming from. 

You want perfection, you're results oriented and thats okay but it only sets you up to make judgements like that. Were out rookies great? No but thats not what you expect out of them especially on a team like we had

[ekill08x]

Seems like Joe Douglas drafted a few guys with the idea that he was moving on from Gregg Williams at the very least and looking to at least bring in this 4-3 cover 3 defense that uses a wide 9. Davis, Zuniga and Hall are all much better fits in this system than in Gregg William's attacking style that typically had more 3 man fronts, single high and man coverage. Not to say we wont use some of the same looks over time, but the main philosophies are going to be different. I could be off with my first point that JD was already looking forward but the fact is the guys that we draft on D last year will have a much better fit.

As to @Bobby816's point. Yeah I think a lot of the rookies after Becton were underwhelming. I wanted to see more from Perine especially and the fact that Gore got the bulk of carries was simply ignorant and malpractice. Zuniga looked like a fish out of water, Davis was up and down which is okay, as was Hall, but Hall also showed he can compete well, tackle and has an NFL skillset. Hall will likely be a starter for us. I also have to agree that Mims flashed, but less than a handful of targets a game isn't enough. Guy also doesn't look like he was in great shape either. I thought it was a B- draft personally but it could look much better if guys develop.

@KingOfNewYork also makes a fair point that not all rookies are going to flash right away. Guys find it in year 2 or year 3. Q struggled as a rookie and looked close to elite in year 2. Injuries do occur and they slow down development and your ability to be 100% most of the season. So while its frustrating to keep saying this, and we all can attest, we're Jets fans, we are once again starting over while I hate to say it, we have no choice but to be open minded and to be patient. Trust me I cringed as I typed it.

I know were all frustrated. We all have our philosophies of what we should do to expedite this rebuild. Some of us want to trade out and just stockpile like @Jag68Sid87which I understand. Some of use would trade anything within reason or even overpay to get Watson. Some would rather keep Sam and some would rather just start over completely. It is a very unique time for this franchise. The one thing I will say at least speaking for myself is this is the first time truly since Bill Parcells, that I trust the GM and coaching staff and scouts to make the best decision. Obviously everything still remains to be seen but I feel like if these guys cant turn this thing around, will we ever? Trying to stay optimistic, because I am actually pumped to watch again. Last year was truly brutal. It has to be better right? Sorry for the novel boys.

[KimuraGod]

I’m one of the more impatient fans on this forum I know that but last offseason was so crazy with covid that it was always going to be tough to have rookies fly out of the gate. Especially lower round picks. There’s definitely promise with the rookie class but I also question some people’s blind faith in JD as I think his FA mostly sucked and his draft was middle of the road but has potential. 
 

 

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, ekill08x said:

Seems like Joe Douglas drafted a few guys with the idea that he was moving on from Gregg Williams at the very least and looking to at least bring in this 4-3 cover 3 defense that uses a wide 9. Davis, Zuniga and Hall are all much better fits in this system than in Gregg William's attacking style that typically had more 3 man fronts, single high and man coverage. Not to say we wont use some of the same looks over time, but the main philosophies are going to be different. I could be off with my first point that JD was already looking forward but the fact is the guys that we draft on D last year will have a much better fit.

As to @Bobby816's point. Yeah I think a lot of the rookies after Becton were underwhelming. I wanted to see more from Perine especially and the fact that Gore got the bulk of carries was simply ignorant and malpractice. Zuniga looked like a fish out of water, Davis was up and down which is okay, as was Hall, but Hall also showed he can compete well, tackle and has an NFL skillset. Hall will likely be a starter for us. I also have to agree that Mims flashed, but less than a handful of targets a game isn't enough. Guy also doesn't look like he was in great shape either. I thought it was a B- draft personally but it could look much better if guys develop.

@KingOfNewYork also makes a fair point that not all rookies are going to flash right away. Guys find it in year 2 or year 3. Q struggled as a rookie and looked close to elite in year 2. Injuries do occur and they slow down development and your ability to be 100% most of the season. So while its frustrating to keep saying this, and we all can attest, we're Jets fans, we are once again starting over while I hate to say it, we have no choice but to be open minded and to be patient. Trust me I cringed as I typed it.

I know were all frustrated. We all have our philosophies of what we should do to expedite this rebuild. Some of us want to trade out and just stockpile like @Jag68Sid87which I understand. Some of use would trade anything within reason or even overpay to get Watson. Some would rather keep Sam and some would rather just start over completely. It is a very unique time for this franchise. The one thing I will say at least speaking for myself is this is the first time truly since Bill Parcells, that I trust the GM and coaching staff and scouts to make the best decision. Obviously everything still remains to be seen but I feel like if these guys cant turn this thing around, will we ever? Trying to stay optimistic, because I am actually pumped to watch again. Last year was truly brutal. It has to be better right? Sorry for the novel boys.

I think some still go based on what they thought post draft. When after a year the class was a lot worse than what produced. Is there potential still? Obviously. But to only get what we did out of the rookies was a poor

[ekill08x]

3 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I think some still go based on what they thought post draft. When after a year the class was a lot worse than what produced. Is there potential still? Obviously. But to only get what we did out of the rookies was a poor

Poor? I dont know if I agree with poor. I wanted more from some, but 3 players ended up being starters. Last year just sucked. Im not dwelling on it. Lets move forward lol. 

[SDotNova]

Does PFF or FO put out anything analyzing draft classes using a metric like wins above replacement?

We are rating our draft in a vacuum. It would be nice to compare how our rookies produced relative an average starter and how they compares to other rookie classes. My gut tells me we were average or slightly above average. But that’s a guess.

Edited March 5, 2021 by SDotNova