Is there a big debate about the best team in your franchises history?

[BayRaider]

Nope.

1976 Raiders is pretty universal. 

[candyman93]

For Cleveland any of the pre super bowl era teams.

 

If you mean super bowl era- Any one of the 2 teams that lost to Elway in the AFC Championship.

[Uncle Buck]

There are several teams who could vie for the title of best Vikings team ever.  What is interesting is that they were all so different.

1969 - A dominant team on offense and defense.
- Offense was #1 in points scored.  Had three games where they scored 50 or more points.
- Defense was #1 in points allowed.  Averaged less than 10 per game.
- Won 12 straight games, which at the time, was the longest streak in the NFL in 35 years.

2009 - Possibly the most talented Vikings team of all time.  Pro Bowl & Hall of Fame caliber players on both sides of the ball.

1975 - Bud Grant said this was the best of his Purple People Eaters teams.  Lost due to Drew Pearson's "Hail Mary" push-off.

1998 - Went 15-1.  Had what was the highest scoring offense of all time.  A missed Gary Anderson kick away from the Super Bowl.

 

[Breesus mode]

Nope

[Duluther]

5 minutes ago, Breesus mode said:

Nope

Is it the team that cheated?

[Breesus mode]

1 minute ago, Duluther said:

Is it the team that cheated?

 

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

I haven't checked in with other Ravens fans, but Joe Flacco for Hall of Fame is a hill I would definitely be willing to die on. 2012 Ravens, best Ravens team ever. Would have beaten 2000 Ravens. 

Edit: had the wrong year - 2012 the super bowl team is who I had meant

Edited January 1, 2021 by ThatJaxxenGuy

[Tk3]

Bills 2020

fight me

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

Just now, Tk3 said:

Bills 2020

fight me

Easily 2020 Bills

[Awsi Dooger]

4 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Nope.

1976 Raiders is pretty universal. 

Never should have made it out of the first round of the playoffs. Easily the most despicably lopsided playoff game I have ever seen from an officiated standpoint. Phil Villipiano was mugging Russ Francis all game and especially in the 4th quarter,  and laughing because he knew the officials would never call anything no matter what he did.  New England matched up against the Raiders perfectly. They wiped out Oakland in the regular season and would have had a comfortable road playoff victory with even minimally competent officiating. That game makes my blood boil to this day, and I entered without any rooting interest.

I will never acknowledge that John Madden ever won a title. He was gifted a playoff advance.

The 1983 Raiders were a dominant team at playoff time. Destroyed defending champion and 14-2 Redskins team that lost the two regular season games by 1 point apiece. That Washington team racked up record after record in terms of points scored, margin of victory and forced turnovers. Far superior more confident version of the 1982 title team.

1983 Raiders is the answer and it's not close. Plunkett missed one of the losses, the home game against Seattle. I was in Los Angeles that year and actually attended the final Raider defeat, hosting St. Louis in the penultimate. Ottis Anderson controlled the game that day but he was capable of that against anyone. We all knew the Raiders were a scary team entering the playoffs. Then they exceeded expectation. Nothing remotely competitive 

[Awsi Dooger]

1972 Dolphins

None of the adjustments or details mean anything. That's the beauty of unbeaten, when only one team has managed it in more than a century. Ultimate trump card argument.

I can't tell you how much I enjoy the annual whining and jealousy

[Awsi Dooger]

10 hours ago, August4th said:

I've seen some old school steeler fans/media swear the 76 steelers were the best team in that era. better than all 4 of the teams that won a SB. Injuries in the playoffs derailed them

I remember it well. Bully team. Midseason was perhaps the most famous stretch of bully football in modern NFL history. Pittsburgh got off to a terrible start to the season and Bradshaw got hurt. They looked to be out of playoff contention before adopting a style of methodical run oriented offense under Kruczek, and a defense with surreal intensity level.

By midseason it was already fascinating and many teams were intimidated. The media was all over it. People were calling it the best Steelers defense even when they still had a losing record. 

I became less convinced when the Dolphins traveled to Pittsburgh. Miami was lousy that season and Griese was banged up. Csonka, Kiick and Warfield were long gone. It was basically a shell of the team that won the Super Bowls in 1972 and 1973...except the great offensive line was mostly intact. Everyone in Miami was pessimistic and expected the Steelers to win by four touchdowns or more. But the game didn't evolve that way at all. Miami's offensive line was not intimidated and kept grinding out decent yardage on the ground. Nothing special but far superior to anything Pittsburgh had allowed recently. Griese had nobody to throw to so it became a low scoring slugfest, with Pittsburgh in control but hardly a given.

The Steelers eventually added another touchdown to make the final look more lopsided than it was. I believe it ended up 14-3. But I left that game with the same sense that many others had...if you kept your calm and ran it against Pittsburgh they were not nearly as invincible as the earlier stretch of games made them appear.

And that's exactly what happened. I remember late season games in which likewise the opponent followed Miami's lead and had some success on the ground. Then the Raiders used that style almost exclusively in the AFC Championship Game. They bullied the bully. Stabler wasn't asked to do much of anything. My image of that game is Stabler turning around to hand it to a bruising no-nonsense back on a quick hitter for 3-5 yards. It worked the entire game. 

Yeah, Harris and Bleier got hurt a week earlier against the Colts. But I didn't think Pittsburgh had much of an excuse. New England a week earlier had outplayed and outgained the same Raider team on the same field, losing only because of a turnover deficit and outrageous officiating including the bail out roughing the passer penalty against Sugar Bear Hamilton. Bradshaw came back for the few regular season games plus the playoffs. Swann and Stallworth played. It wasn't as if the Steelers went into that game with Kruczek at quarterback and no weapons at all.

[diamondbull424]

11 hours ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

I haven't checked in with other Ravens fans, but Joe Flacco for Hall of Fame is a hill I would definitely be willing to die on. 2011 Ravens, best Ravens team ever. Would have beaten 2000 Ravens. 

All of the teams are flawed. The best Ravens teams I have watched in no order:

2000- All time defense with Ray and Rod, below average offense with only Jamal, Ogden, and Sharpe; great kicker in Stover, elite returner in Jermaine Lewis

2006- One of the best franchise defenses, Lewis had only lost 1/2 step, Reed was still able to tackle; Solid offense, only two receivers (Heap, Mason) and a washed Jamal. Not enough accomplishments. EDIT: I should also mention Steve McNAir, he was good, but breaking down... his body was clearly shot by the time playoffs rolled around. Sucks that we couldn’t make it past Manning though, that defense was special.

2008- Rookie Flacco, aging Stover that wasn’t really hitting beyond 40 yards

2011- Seemed like the destiny team, but no legit #3 WR, SPT not as explosive, no legit TE had emerged as Ed Dickson and Dennis Pitta were sharing opportunities. Ray had lost 1 1/2 steps, Reed couldn’t tackle due to the nerve issue. Lee Evans and Billy Cundiff were on this team...

2012- Injuries killed the season. However, legit #3 WR in Jacoby, who also doubled as an explosive returner. Special teams coverage was amazing. Koch was still in his peak. Tucker is the GOAT and that playoffs is a part of his legacy hitting the game winner to beat the Broncos in OT after the Mile High Miracle. Regular season defense wasn’t the best, but getting Lewis back closed the gap with the 2011 unit, prior to him reinjuring the tricep the day before the SB. This team, for its playoff run, was the most complete squad overall, no holes.

2019- MVP Lamar and the best rushing attack in NFL history, but leaky run defense all year (YPG), no game breaking RB option, best WR was a gimpy rookie, no pass rush, amazing secondary, mediocre returners, older Koch, GOAT Tucker.

2020- I think this team has the best chance to topple the 2012 team as most complete. While Lamar and the offense didn’t start out hot, they’re peaking as they finish. The defense started off as a top 5 unit, then suffered through injuries and covid... yet is now getting healthy and peaking at the right moment. We finally have an explosive return specialist in Devin Duvernay. Our WR core is better than in 2019 and arguably the best WR core (this is sad) that we’ve had outside of the 2012 unit. Andrews is the best TE in franchise history. GOAT Tucker is present. Koch is still old and not in his prime however. Also the IOL, LB, and Safety play isn’t to the level it was at last year... the IOL and LB play isn’t incredibly far off, but the S play has been a huge drop from ET to DeShon Elliot. The DB play also isn’t at the same level, but they also haven’t been healthy since early in the season, when they were healthy however they were at a dominant level together. With a strong finish and a SB win, this team would have as good a claim as any as the best, most complete unit in franchise history IMO.

Edited January 1, 2021 by diamondbull424

[Jakuvious]

I don't think so, for a few reasons. For starters, prior to last year, the Chiefs only had the one superbowl win, so they were kind of the default for that reason alone. And then even now, with last year's team winning, there aren't many Chiefs fans who can really comment on both last year's team, and the 1969 team, so there aren't many people to have that debate, even though it's possible now. And then for the teams beyond those two, it really becomes a debate about the most depressing playoff loss, and while that's a debate you can have, that's not a debate anyone wants to have.

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

All of the teams are flawed. The best Ravens teams I have watched in no order:

2000- All time defense with Ray and Rod, below average offense with only Jamal, Ogden, and Sharpe; great kicker in Stover, elite returner in Jermaine Lewis

2006- One of the best franchise defenses, Lewis had only lost 1/2 step, Reed was still able to tackle; Solid offense, only two receivers (Heap, Mason) and a washed Jamal. Not enough accomplishments.

2008- Rookie Flacco, aging Stover that wasn’t really hitting beyond 40 yards

2011- Seemed like the destiny team, but no legit #3 WR, SPT not as explosive, no legit TE had emerged as Ed Dickson and Dennis Pitta were sharing opportunities. Ray had lost 1 1/2 steps, Reed couldn’t tackle due to the nerve issue. Lee Evans and Billy Cundiff were on this team...

2012- Injuries killed the season. However, legit #3 WR in Jacoby, who also doubled as an explosive returner. Special teams coverage was amazing. Koch was still in his peak. Tucker is the GOAT and that playoffs is a part of his legacy hitting the game winner to beat the Broncos in OT after the Mile High Miracle. Regular season defense wasn’t the best, but getting Lewis back closed the gap with the 2011 unit, prior to him reinjuring the tricep the day before the SB. This team, for its playoff run, was the most complete squad overall, no holes.

2019- MVP Lamar and the best rushing attack in NFL history, but leaky run defense all year (YPG), no game breaking RB option, best WR was a gimpy rookie, no pass rush, amazing secondary, mediocre returners, older Koch, GOAT Tucker.

2020- I think this team has the best chance to topple the 2012 team as most complete. While Lamar and the offense didn’t start out hot, they’re peaking as they finish. The defense started off as a top 5 unit, then suffered through injuries and covid... yet is now getting healthy and peaking at the right moment. We finally have an explosive return specialist in Devin Duvernay. Our WR core is better than in 2019 and arguably the best WR core (this is sad) that we’ve had outside of the 2012 unit. Andrews is the best TE in franchise history. GOAT Tucker is present. Koch is still old and not in his prime however. Also the IOL, LB, and Safety play isn’t to the level it was at last year... the IOL and LB play isn’t incredibly far off, but the S play has been a huge drop from ET to DeShon Elliot. The DB play also isn’t at the same level, but they also haven’t been healthy since early in the season, when they were healthy however they were at a dominant level together. With a strong finish and a SB win, this team would have as good a claim as any as the best, most complete unit in franchise history IMO.

This is rather embarrassing but I also meant 2012. Whichever year it was that we won the second ship lmao