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2021 Patriots Draft


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7 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

There's Tufele of USC...

"Pros: Jay aligns at defensive tackle for the Trojan even front defense. He aligns at the 1 shade and the 3 tech for the Trojan defense and is a capable projection to either role at the pro level as well.  He is a good athlete with good quickness, balance on the interior and body control. In the passing game, he is sufficient to generate pressure. Tufele is an explosive athlete who uses his powerful hands to defeat interior linemen inside and get to the QB. He does a good job pushing the depth of the pocket as an interior rusher and has an effective bull rush, as well. In the run game he is very good at the point of attack. He comes off the ball hard, defeats his blocker, shows good agility to get through trash and finds the football. He is extremely difficult to single block when his pad level is good and flashes dominance in both the run and the pass game. 

Cons: This is a player who has some dominant reps over the course of the game. He can afford to be more consistent at playing with good pad level. He has a swim move that he uses inside, however, he can afford to develop a legitimate counter and complimentary move as well. Overall, this is a very good football player who simply needs consistency"

 

 

sounds like a pass rusher though. I want a Brandon Williams

You hit it on it, more of a pass rusher. I don't see the fit we need. The same with the Bama DL. I have yet to find a Seymour/Vince type. I'm looking for a run stopper. Rush is covered with the young guys. Alabama has him on the line however he's in the 2022 draft.

PS  I really like Cowart that's the type I can't find in this draft.

Edited by m haynes
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12 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

There's Tufele of USC...

"Pros: Jay aligns at defensive tackle for the Trojan even front defense. He aligns at the 1 shade and the 3 tech for the Trojan defense and is a capable projection to either role at the pro level as well.  He is a good athlete with good quickness, balance on the interior and body control. In the passing game, he is sufficient to generate pressure. Tufele is an explosive athlete who uses his powerful hands to defeat interior linemen inside and get to the QB. He does a good job pushing the depth of the pocket as an interior rusher and has an effective bull rush, as well. In the run game he is very good at the point of attack. He comes off the ball hard, defeats his blocker, shows good agility to get through trash and finds the football. He is extremely difficult to single block when his pad level is good and flashes dominance in both the run and the pass game. 

Cons: This is a player who has some dominant reps over the course of the game. He can afford to be more consistent at playing with good pad level. He has a swim move that he uses inside, however, he can afford to develop a legitimate counter and complimentary move as well. Overall, this is a very good football player who simply needs consistency"

 

 

sounds like a pass rusher though. I want a Brandon Williams

There is a fatty from LSU however I never seen him play. Tyler Shelvin . I saw one play on video, he can move for a large man.

Anyone WATCH him play?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdIGyJ0Z_eI

Also I don't like the Georgia guy or the FLA Gator. M Wilson is a cancer for any team that drafts him.

 

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I'm trying to completely ignore defense in paying attention to this draft simply because I want a fun team to watch again so badly lol 

One thing which came to mind today was the fact that Jason McCourty was apparently giving indications that he may retire after this season. If that's the case do we know if Devin plans to stay as well? If they both retire we could see huge holes at CB/S .. meaning we end up seeing another safety in the second and no offense. It could also be an indicator of a trade back in the 1st /2nd in an attempt to get more picks to fill all these holes the team has. 

I'm pretty nervous about the QB position primarily because of all the needs the team has.. BB isn't going to trade up needing so many pieces.. and it seems like the top 4 QB's could easily be gone in the first 10 picks.. and next years draft is apparently seen as a much worse QB class. Kind of makes you wish they took Jordan Love last season .. but they could be looking at a being forced to overdraft one of Jones/Trask/Ridder around #12 simply because every team feels the need to draft a QB this season ... smh .. but could make it more likely that we trade for my guy Minshew which would make me happy .. Minshew and a project QB in Ridder with a 2nd round pick. 

If all those QBs go in the top 10 a trade back is almost guaranteed .. which could at least mean getting a late 1st and a late 2nd... so maybe we could at least get 2 really good WR ... but BB wouldn't probably take the right ones anyway lol

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12 hours ago, m haynes said:

There is a fatty from LSU however I never seen him play. Tyler Shelvin . I saw one play on video, he can move for a large man.

Anyone WATCH him play?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdIGyJ0Z_eI

Also I don't like the Georgia guy or the FLA Gator. M Wilson is a cancer for any team that drafts him.

 

Maybe we try and find a fatty in later drafts. Just not the year for it (unlike the Quinnen year)

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17 hours ago, Crimmage said:

Kind of makes you wish they took Jordan Love last season

Crimm   Go in the bathroom and wash your mouth out with soap!

How could you, this is a sign of desperate man. Calm yourself its ok! 😁

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1 minute ago, m haynes said:

Crimm   Go in the bathroom and wash your mouth out with soap!

How could you, this is a sign of desperate man. Calm yourself its ok! 😁

I think for a lot of fans .. hope keeps you going no matter the record. That's a major reason why everyone was excited for Stidham and mad that BB wasn't playing him.. because after all the hype in the offseason everyone really believed he was going to be Brady's successor. Having a 1st round pick QB gets the hype and Love has all the tools.. he could certainly do well in this league but playing the what if game never helps anything. 

I'm still and will continue to be on the Minshewmania hype train until either he gets traded somewhere else or the Pats take a QB in the first round this draft. Just the idea of BB taking another 6th round QB to prove the entire league wrong.. he has to salivate over the idea.. and at least he can throw unlike Cam. This assumes that Josh stays and doesn't get a head coaching job.. because while many believe Josh was bad this year I think it's a miracle he got this offense to be able to win 6 games. He could do REALLY well within a couple years with Minshew imo.. assuming they surround him with talent ( and we all know how much i want some offense focused drafts! )

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18 hours ago, Crimmage said:

trade back is almost guaranteed .

If I understand you correctly top 4 QB went in the top 10 picks. That would leave Trask and Jones on the board when the Pats pick. IMO the only team the Pats can trade with would be for the two QBs.  So Lets say it Steelers and they take Trask that leaves Jones.  I would be bull if we miss out on a QB and trade for another pick like Jordan Richards.

I don't care where they are rated. I think both have skills for the NFL.  Pick the one you like and build. IMO I have two QBs I want. its Wilson or Jones.  I like QB's (Jones)that don't make mistakes. I see him as a Alex Smith type.  IMO you offer me Jones or Baker Mayfield, I take Jones every time.

I don't need a All World QB, I just need a competent one.

This draft the only reason to trade up to the Pats is for QBs. The Pats could make a small trade moving down 2 spots if a team wants a particular CB. No one with a major move this year.

 

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I actually think trade back would be for a corner.. 10-20 could have maybe 4 corners taken and the run on them would likely start then. It also leaves the possibility of BB just taking the top corner in the draft. 

I can understand your reasoning for liking Jones, a guy who can throw, has a high floor and low ceiling so we at least know we end up with a competent guy who wont hurt you ever week. My reasoning for not wanting that with a top 3rd of the first round pick is that you can get a guy like that at a much cheaper cost ( Minshew/Brissett/etc.) allowing you to take an impact player to pair with that QB or even trade back like I suggested and get 2 impact players to pair with that QB to make you a better team. Minshew is only 2 years older than Jones.. will likely cost you a 4th rounder (3rd at best) .. and I can almost guarantee would have put up massive numbers just like Jones in that Alabama offense. Lacking big arms and top tier physical traits is the knock on both of them .. so to me they are basically the same player. If you go high ceiling guy like Lance I get it.. but why take Jones when you can find Jones already in the league. If Jones wasn't playing at Alabama.. he would probably be getting drafted in the 3rd or later. 

 

I'd rather have Surtain even in the 1st round (or who knows.. maybe Parsons slips) .. with Minshew than Jones 

 

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14 minutes ago, Crimmage said:

Minshew

I'm sorry I never asked why do you like him. This is all I got on him. Plays for the Jags, has a mustache.  I know he played for the crazy coach Leach or his system.   Pure guess, he won some games but when I looked at the score/ stat there was nothing special.  Basically when it came to the Jags " I turned the page" no interest.

What I saw was ESPN snips, the lasted 10 seconds.

Last I know that the Jags will ask for more than he's worth. He's perfect backup for them next year.

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8 minutes ago, m haynes said:

I'm sorry I never asked why do you like him. 

So the first and most important part of me liking Minshew is the coaching staff he has in Jacksonville.. they are horrendous and he was still able to succeed as a rookie. I am a believer in Josh is a great offensive coordinator, he could develop him FAR further than Jacksonville. They knew they could get the #1 pick this season and benched him after he came back from injury for Glennon because they wanted that #1 pick. Dough Marrone shouldn't be a head coach in this league and I don't think you can put enough importance towards coaching when it comes to the development of a young QB. 

I'm not sure what the Jags would require to get him .. but they have no reason to keep him.. they have Glennon as a veteran backup, why have a young guy backup Lawrence? I think they would take a 4th for him unless teams are really fighting over time like the Saints/49ers who have good offenses they can put around him.. then he could go for more.. hard to tell.

Negatives: 

  • Below average height 
  • Arm strength 
  • Slow 40 time
  • Played in a scheme in college nobody trusts in the nfl 
  • Fumbles.. he fumbled a lot (10 times as a rookie.. idr how many he actually lost) .. but I think having one of the worse OL in the league hurts him there

Positives: 

  • 6ft tall is good enough to play in this league .. just ask Drew Brees 
  • He isn't a speedster but he can run when necessary .. he is mobile enough to get the job done imo .. he can use his legs to extend plays and most importantly looks to pass when he is running!! he doesn't just put his head down and run .. but he can run when necessary to pick up a first down. 
  • Brady didn't have a cannon arm and he did really well in the system .. Minshew can make every throw necessary to be successful 
  • He is an intelligent guy, had a high wonderlick score ( for whatever that's worth) and from what I've seen doesn't make a lot of stupid plays
  • I think he's a natural leader.. he has that "it" factor imo .. the guys around him gravitate to him and listening to him on those mic'd up moments.. he is always around his guys hyping them up and being positive and pushing them which I want in my quarterback. I mean .. you're in Jacksonville.. that team has had maybe 1-2 good seasons in the last decade+ .. being able to be positive and pushing guys to get better is really important. 
  • Cool demeanor.. he doesn't get frazzled under pressure which is super important.. I dont think he would fall apart in a big game in the playoffs.. he's a guy who would rise up to the occasion
  • He is accurate, 61% completion as a rookie with nobody around him.. 66% this season in 9 games .. he can be a consistent 65% completion player in this league
  • He is 24.. only 2 years older than Trask/Jones .. he has a lot of room to grow with the right coaching staff
  • Saban wanted him to transfer to Alabama to backup Tua knowing that he had talent and could play ( and that Tua may fall apart)
  • TD to INT ratio .. this is an important one to BB and as a rookie had 21TD to 6INT .. a hell of a rookie season imo .. and this season in 9 games had 16TD and 5 INT.. not quite as good but still much better than a lot of guys in this league. 
  • He is a team guy who lives and breathes football from what I've researched.. this is the type of guy BB loves 

 

Being in Jacksonville not many people get to watch his games.. hell I had to go out of my way to watch the few I could find but I think he could develop into into a top 15 QB who is good enough to win a super bowl if you have a strong team around him. 

Give him a great OL, good running game and good receivers and he can make plays. Which is why I would be excited for this offense if they were able to take their pick and trade back .. get a WR with #1 potential.. and sign an free agent WR + Free agent TE.. and you could turn around this offense extremely quickly with a full offseason program. 

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27 minutes ago, Crimmage said:

So the first and most important part of me liking Minshew is the coaching staff he has in Jacksonville.. they are horrendous and he was still able to succeed as a rookie. I am a believer in Josh is a great offensive coordinator, he could develop him FAR further than Jacksonville. They knew they could get the #1 pick this season and benched him after he came back from injury for Glennon because they wanted that #1 pick. Dough Marrone shouldn't be a head coach in this league and I don't think you can put enough importance towards coaching when it comes to the development of a young QB. 

I'm not sure what the Jags would require to get him .. but they have no reason to keep him.. they have Glennon as a veteran backup, why have a young guy backup Lawrence? I think they would take a 4th for him unless teams are really fighting over time like the Saints/49ers who have good offenses they can put around him.. then he could go for more.. hard to tell.

Negatives: 

  • Below average height 
  • Arm strength 
  • Slow 40 time
  • Played in a scheme in college nobody trusts in the nfl 
  • Fumbles.. he fumbled a lot (10 times as a rookie.. idr how many he actually lost) .. but I think having one of the worse OL in the league hurts him there

Positives: 

  • 6ft tall is good enough to play in this league .. just ask Drew Brees 
  • He isn't a speedster but he can run when necessary .. he is mobile enough to get the job done imo .. he can use his legs to extend plays and most importantly looks to pass when he is running!! he doesn't just put his head down and run .. but he can run when necessary to pick up a first down. 
  • Brady didn't have a cannon arm and he did really well in the system .. Minshew can make every throw necessary to be successful 
  • He is an intelligent guy, had a high wonderlick score ( for whatever that's worth) and from what I've seen doesn't make a lot of stupid plays
  • I think he's a natural leader.. he has that "it" factor imo .. the guys around him gravitate to him and listening to him on those mic'd up moments.. he is always around his guys hyping them up and being positive and pushing them which I want in my quarterback. I mean .. you're in Jacksonville.. that team has had maybe 1-2 good seasons in the last decade+ .. being able to be positive and pushing guys to get better is really important. 
  • Cool demeanor.. he doesn't get frazzled under pressure which is super important.. I dont think he would fall apart in a big game in the playoffs.. he's a guy who would rise up to the occasion
  • He is accurate, 61% completion as a rookie with nobody around him.. 66% this season in 9 games .. he can be a consistent 65% completion player in this league
  • He is 24.. only 2 years older than Trask/Jones .. he has a lot of room to grow with the right coaching staff
  • Saban wanted him to transfer to Alabama to backup Tua knowing that he had talent and could play ( and that Tua may fall apart)
  • TD to INT ratio .. this is an important one to BB and as a rookie had 21TD to 6INT .. a hell of a rookie season imo .. and this season in 9 games had 16TD and 5 INT.. not quite as good but still much better than a lot of guys in this league. 
  • He is a team guy who lives and breathes football from what I've researched.. this is the type of guy BB loves 

 

Being in Jacksonville not many people get to watch his games.. hell I had to go out of my way to watch the few I could find but I think he could develop into into a top 15 QB who is good enough to win a super bowl if you have a strong team around him. 

Give him a great OL, good running game and good receivers and he can make plays. Which is why I would be excited for this offense if they were able to take their pick and trade back .. get a WR with #1 potential.. and sign an free agent WR + Free agent TE.. and you could turn around this offense extremely quickly with a full offseason program. 

Thanks for the breakdown.

I can see why you like him.  I just watched highlights on You tube. By the way he seem to have a bunch of fans, there are many tubes on him.

Here what I think.

  • Concern with fumbles, you can blame the OL but he has to take care of the ball.
  • His arm is really weak however not a real big deal with Pats system. My concern is he doesn't have enough arm for deep play off run.
  • I see him as a stop gap and I have no problems watching him on Sunday. No I don't see him bring us to SB.
  • I like that he knows how to play the position. He's a gamer.

I would make the trade with no more than a 4th if everything else fails. I still want a QB drafted out of the top 6 rated QBs. I would weigh the cost for a free agent and trading the 4th RD pick. 

Look please don't take offense, I respect you as a poster.  I'm just giving you my opinion base on what you posted and the videos I just watched. I also have my thoughts on the approach that I would take if I was the GM.

IMO you have to have a rookie QB. That's the cheapest way to success. You have him for 5 years at cheap money.  You go trade or FA the cost is much higher and riskier. Lets say Minshew bring us to the playoff in his contract year. You have to make a decision to pay big bucks without enough time to evaluate. You also are stuck most of the time without a backup plan because you don't want to waste a high pick on QB that sits on the bench or risk a pick on a hit or miss prospect .

Minshew traded to Pats. They don't take a QB they take WR/TE/CB.  IMO this is how the spinning wheel starts.

Please remember this is a guy that never bother with Minshew until Kick off today !!!!

 

 

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No offense taken, great thoughts. I know I think a lot more highly of him than most people so it would certainly appear like a spinning wheels move. Who knows, maybe it would be.. but I have a lot of confidence in this guy to put in the work and that this coaching staff is good enough to bring out his full potential. I also forgot to add BB spite / cockiness / I'll prove the league which comes with Minshew.. him being a 6th rounder and nobody believing he can be a franchise guy.. I think that just makes BB want to give another F you to the league. 

I think his fumbling issue has gotten slightly better this season (4 in 9 games) and I think that's totally something which can be fixed via coaching. Kevin Faulk fumbled A LOT and they were eventually able to help him get better there.. Tiki Barber was an awful fumbler too in his career and was able to fix it. 

He doesn't have the strongest arm in the world but I don't think it's awful by any means .. I've seen him throw the ball 30-40 yards down field while maintaining accuracy, do you really need a guy who can throw the ball beyond 40 yards in the air? Even when brady was here, what was the extent of his air time? I would say well over 75% of his basses were within 25 yards thrown.. then it would be up to the receiver to make it an even larger play. With Minshew you want two things.. Possession guys who can guarantee that 1st down when you need it (Meyers) and explosive yards after the catch type guys ( Moore / Olave / etc etc) and he can do very well. 

I totally agree that they should draft a QB either way this season! If you get Minshew for a 4th rounder.. I'm totally happy grabbing Ridder / Ehlinger /etc. in that 2nd-4th round range. Until you find the guy.. I think the smart move is to double dip at the position and have as many shots at finding a franchise guy as possible. I also agree on the 4th round value.. especially because we have I believe 2 comp picks coming.. if you can give up a 4th round comp pick for him that's a MASSIVE steal imo. 

You don't get cheaper than 6th round pick money.. and he just seems like so much of a team guy I feel you could lock him up to a team friendly deal over time if he plays well. BB convinces him how he can come here and win a championship while proving to the league he can be a pro bowler.. or he can go somewhere else and be the backup everyone believes him to be. 

 

I seem crazy today.. but if he goes to the Patriots, Saints, or 49ers.. this guy makes the pro bowl in his career multiple times imo

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The Panthers are requesting to interview Caserio .. it's tough to care because it's so hard to know what value he has really brought to the team... especially given how bad their drafts have been the last 5 years. 
 

Biggest thing I take from this is just the annoyance of all the staff taken away from the Patriots every year and it seems like they never hire anyone to replace them. I really hope they have an incredible internal development program to be able to sustain all of these people leaving.. unless BB has some other family members we aren't aware of that he plans on putting in the front office.

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On 1/2/2021 at 3:52 PM, m haynes said:

There is a fatty from LSU however I never seen him play. Tyler Shelvin . I saw one play on video, he can move for a large man.

Anyone WATCH him play?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdIGyJ0Z_eI

Also I don't like the Georgia guy or the FLA Gator. M Wilson is a cancer for any team that drafts him.

 

I think opting out this season hurt him but he could be a steal in the third if we could get a third round pick.

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