BDL Discussion Thread 2021

[rackcs]

17 hours ago, SirA1 said:

I know most people hate Chris Simms rankings but he had CEH as his #1 RB last year and has Dyami Brown at his # 1C WR this year (Chase and Smith).  Just watched that today. He was barely on my radar until about a week ago.

Hoping he lands in a spot where he can be used correctly.

Chris Simms is cheeks as everyone else has already said and no way do I have Dyami that high but I like him a lot. I don't think he's going to be a do-it-all guy but he's going to be great as a downfield target, someone who can be explosive and make plays. My ideal fit for him is in Kansas City, I think Mahomes throwing to him would be awesome. 

I've liked Dyami since the summer and wasn't surprised to see him rise. One of my students is cousins with Dazz Newsome so I went to scout him and saw Brown making plays and looking good.

14 hours ago, Jlash said:

This safety class was full-on butt cheeks though.

Really? I think most of the top guys have good potential if nothing else. Big fan of Moehrig, Grant, Cisco, and Diablo. The others I see having potential. Not much to see in the later rounds though, there's a drop off for sure.

[bcb1213]

Only two safeties I liked were Johnson and Cisco 

[VigilantZombie]

11 hours ago, Blue said:

This QB class is garbage outside of Trevor Lawrence. The only other QB I would even consider in the top 25 is Trey Lance and he shouldn't go in the top 10. This is going to be like the 2011 class where everyone in the top half of the first round panned out as borderline Hall of Famers except the quarterbacks.

That's quite a hot take and I'll be honest, there's not much evidence to support it.

[Jlash]

1 hour ago, rackcs said:

Chris Simms is cheeks as everyone else has already said and no way do I have Dyami that high but I like him a lot. I don't think he's going to be a do-it-all guy but he's going to be great as a downfield target, someone who can be explosive and make plays. My ideal fit for him is in Kansas City, I think Mahomes throwing to him would be awesome. 

I've liked Dyami since the summer and wasn't surprised to see him rise. One of my students is cousins with Dazz Newsome so I went to scout him and saw Brown making plays and looking good.

Really? I think most of the top guys have good potential if nothing else. Big fan of Moehrig, Grant, Cisco, and Diablo. The others I see having potential. Not much to see in the later rounds though, there's a drop off for sure.

Big fan of Moehrig, and I said Cisco has monster potential but he's got as many flat out bad plays as splash okays. 

[Scoundrel]

18 minutes ago, Jlash said:

Big fan of Moehrig, and I said Cisco has monster potential but he's got as many flat out bad plays as splash okays. 

Splash okays are my favorite 

[VigilantZombie]

39 minutes ago, Jlash said:

Big fan of Moehrig, and I said Cisco has monster potential but he's got as many flat out bad plays as splash okays. 

I liked what I've read about Holland, figured it was worth the risk with how many picks I had. Moehrig was my favorite S prospect. 

[Blue]

2 hours ago, wwhickok said:

That's quite a hot take and I'll be honest, there's not much evidence to support it.

Zach Wilson is a one-year wonder who only "broke out" during a year when offensive play as a whole was up and playing against a piss-poor schedule. Trey Lance has played 16 games in his career at the FCS level, only one in the past year. Justin Fields left Georgia rather than try to beat out Jake Fromm and comes from a program and scheme with a very, very long history of failing to prepare quarterbacks for the NFL. Mac Jones looked like trash last year, then excelled (much like Zach Wilson) during a year when offensive play as a whole was up and he had an enormous talent advantage around him on offense over nearly everyone he played against, including the Heisman Trophy winner at receiver.

On top of all that, virtually none of these QBs pass the eye test in my book. Many of them are still raw mechanically. Wilson has flashes but makes bad decisions with the ball that he wasn't punished for this season like he was in the past because, again, bad competition. Lance needs a year to develop better pocket presence. Fields has subpar accuracy and touch, and I don't think he reads the field well at all (I know, a big shocker for a QB from the Urban Meyer offensive scheme /s). Mac Jones doesn't have a single standout physical trait, and he doesn't go before Day 3 with a Hawaii logo on his helmet instead of Alabama.

There is an absolute ****-ton of evidence to support it. The NFL is just so desperate for quarterback talent that they evaluate quarterbacks on a totally different scale from any other position to try and talk themselves into thinking they see something other people don't. If you don't believe that, take a gander at how many first-round QBS from 2009 on are still with the teams that drafted them. Maybe one of these guys surprises me, but I'm hugely pessimistic on anybody from this class besides Lawrence and Lance panning out as anything more than a career backup.

EDIT: Probably worth adding that yes, this is just my opinion, but I feel pretty strongly about how bad this class is. I thought the 2018 QB class was hot garbage too and so far they haven't really proved me wrong.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Blue

[MD4L]

30 minutes ago, Blue said:

Fields has subpar accuracy and touch, and I don't think he reads the field well at all (I know, a big shocker for a QB from the Urban Meyer offensive scheme /s).

Justin Fields was never coached by Urban Meyer. Ryan Day worked with Meyer for two seasons but Day came in with experience coaching QBs at the NFL. I don’t see an exact replication of their respective offenses watching Fields in comparison to JT Barrett or Dwayne Haskins.

[Blue]

Just now, MD4L said:

Justin Fields was never coached by Urban Meyer. Ryan Day worked with Meyer for two seasons but Day came in with experience coaching QBs at the NFL. I don’t see an exact replication of their respective offenses watching Fields in comparison to JT Barrett or Dwayne Haskins.

I never said he was coached by Urban Meyer.

[MD4L]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

I never said he was coached by Urban Meyer.

40 minutes ago, Blue said:

I know, a big shocker for a QB from the Urban Meyer offensive scheme /s)

Either way using Haskins and the previous handful of OSU QBs as rational for why Fields will flop is an agree to disagree sentiment.

 

[VigilantZombie]

46 minutes ago, Blue said:

Zach Wilson is a one-year wonder who only "broke out" during a year when offensive play as a whole was up and playing against a piss-poor schedule. Trey Lance has played 16 games in his career at the FCS level, only one in the past year. Justin Fields left Georgia rather than try to beat out Jake Fromm and comes from a program and scheme with a very, very long history of failing to prepare quarterbacks for the NFL. Mac Jones looked like trash last year, then excelled (much like Zach Wilson) during a year when offensive play as a whole was up and he had an enormous talent advantage around him on offense over nearly everyone he played against, including the Heisman Trophy winner at receiver.

On top of all that, virtually none of these QBs pass the eye test in my book. Many of them are still raw mechanically. Wilson has flashes but makes bad decisions with the ball that he wasn't punished for this season like he was in the past because, again, bad competition. Lance needs a year to develop better pocket presence. Fields has subpar accuracy and touch, and I don't think he reads the field well at all (I know, a big shocker for a QB from the Urban Meyer offensive scheme /s). Mac Jones doesn't have a single standout physical trait, and he doesn't go before Day 3 with a Hawaii logo on his helmet instead of Alabama.

There is an absolute ****-ton of evidence to support it. The NFL is just so desperate for quarterback talent that they evaluate quarterbacks on a totally different scale from any other position to try and talk themselves into thinking they see something other people don't. If you don't believe that, take a gander at how many first-round QBS from 2009 on are still with the teams that drafted them. Maybe one of these guys surprises me, but I'm hugely pessimistic on anybody from this class besides Lawrence and Lance panning out as anything more than a career backup.

EDIT: Probably worth adding that yes, this is just my opinion, but I feel pretty strongly about how bad this class is. I thought the 2018 QB class was hot garbage too and so far they haven't really proved me wrong.

All I heard was a lot of light-weight opinions.

 Name another relevant BYU player. I'll wait. I get the competition thing but that really isn't a big factor to me. None of the competition anyone in the draft has faced is that comparable to the NFL as a whole.

And your comparisons are pretty terrible.

Edited April 19, 2021 by wwhickok

[MD4L]

Also from most of that argument Blue outlined it looks like NFL GMs and evaluators are gonna have to do the unthinkable....

 They will have to.... give them additional talent for them to succeed. What an unprecedented situation. 

[bcb1213]

It's ok guys. Blue would have passed on Aaron Rodgers due to the college production too 

[bcb1213]

6 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

All I heard was a lot of light-weight opinions.

 Name another relevant BYU player. I'll wait. I get the competition thing but that really isn't a big factor to me. None of the competition anyone in the draft has faced is that comparable to the NFL as a whole.

And your comparisons are pretty terrible.

Taysom Hill, Kyle van noy, Fred Warner, ziggy ansah, Michael Davis

 

Depending on how far back you want to go you run into guys like Steve Young and Jim McMahon 

[Blue]

6 minutes ago, MD4L said:

Either way using Haskins and the previous handful of OSU QBs as rational for why Fields will flop is an agree to disagree sentiment.

 

If you want to ignore that all of those quarterbacks failed in the NFL for the exact same reasons, sure. Continue to be wrong on high picks at QB at your leisure.

5 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

All I heard was a lot of light-weight opinions.

 Name another relevant BYU player. I'll wait. I get the competition thing but that really isn't a big factor to me. None of the competition anyone in the draft has faced is that comparable to the NFL as a whole.

And your comparisons are pretty terrible.

Brady Christensen. Dax Milne. The center, whose name I don't remember off the top of my head, was fairly well-regarded during the season. That BYU offense had one of the best offensive lines in the country and some really great skill talent. Just because you don't know their names doesn't mean they're not good.

Just because you don't like the comparisons doesn't mean their bad, and my track record with QBs has been extremely good over the past ten years outside of the Notre Dame guys (big lols to be had there).

2 minutes ago, MD4L said:

Also from most of that argument Blue outlined it looks like NFL GMs and evaluators are gonna have to do the unthinkable....

 They will have to.... give them additional talent for them to succeed. What an unprecedented situation. 

They don't, though. Teams like the Jets aren't picking a QB in the top 10 every three years because they're good at QB evaluation or at putting talent around those QBs.