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BDL Discussion Thread 2021


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3 minutes ago, MD4L said:

I’d say you’ll eat crow on this but you’re still willing to tell people Kyler Murray hasn’t been a solid starter in Arizona. 

Yeah, because I don't backtrack when I'm right.

Why don't you go look up Ryan Day's job title for the two years prior to becoming the head coach at Ohio State.

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Just now, Blue said:

Yeah, because I don't backtrack when I'm right.

Why you don't go look up Ryan Day's job title for the two years prior to becoming the head coach at Ohio State.

I also looked at the decade in between his 2005 stint at Florida before making my assessment.

Fields wins throwing the intermediate and deeper routes at a high level. Was Haskins that effective in college? His statistics were dynamite but he was at his best with check down throws that consistently fielded immense YAC. 
 

You can translate a lot of his vertical decision making to the next level.

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Oh yeah, you’re also flat out incorrect on Murray. I will not argue this assessment but it was the correct decision to move on from Rosen and no other reasonable alternative would put them in the position they are in now.

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Just now, MD4L said:

I also looked at the decade in between his 2005 stint at Florida before making my assessment.

Fields wins throwing the intermediate and deeper routes at a high level. Was Haskins that effective in college? His statistics were dynamite but he was at his best with check down throws that consistently fielded immense YAC. 
 

You can translate a lot of his vertical decision making to the next level.

So did Colin Kaepernick, whom I was right on and the rest of you were wrong about. Still waiting to hear apologies from the WF crowd from when I said Kaepernick wasn't very good back in like 2013.

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Just now, MD4L said:

Oh yeah, you’re also flat out incorrect on Murray. I will not argue this assessment but it was the correct decision to move on from Rosen and no other reasonable alternative would put them in the position they are in now.

All I heard from people last offseason after the DeAndre Hopkins trade was how explosive and awesome the Arizona offense was going to be.

13th in PPG and scored 7 points in a win-or-stay-home Week 17 game.

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Just now, Blue said:

So did Colin Kaepernick, whom I was right on and the rest of you were wrong about. Still waiting to hear apologies from the WF crowd from when I said Kaepernick wasn't very good back in like 2013.

His career in some aspects is similar to Jared Goff.

Did he have a ten year career? No.

He still earned the 2nd contract, play 3 or 4 years from that deal and reached a Super Bowl with another NFC Championship game. Is it comparable to Tom Brady or hall of famers? No.

Is it a respectable career and better then 95-98% of other QBs? Yes.

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12 minutes ago, MD4L said:

Again, Fields didn’t play in Meyers system. Why is Fields being mentioned with anything to do regarding Urban Meyer?

Having watched fields he does seem to be the one read then run type. He looked better in the championship game going through progressions but he didn't do it during most of his career just from my vantage point    could he be coached up and improve. Absolutely.  But he does share those type of traits with many college QBs who haven't succeeded 

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2 minutes ago, Blue said:

All I heard from people last offseason after the DeAndre Hopkins trade was how explosive and awesome the Arizona offense was going to be.

13th in PPG and scored 7 points in a win-or-stay-home Week 17 game.

Kyler Murray didn’t play that game in that final game so congratulations if you’re counting that as a reason you are correct.

I would like to add Kyler was injured for a portion of the season. Considering how much he relies on his legs (more then Lamar and most mobile QBs) it makes sense that the offense completely stalled after he got hurt. My last bit is Kliff Kingsbury hasn’t led a dynamic offensive revolution like the media touted his coaching style was going to do. 

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1 minute ago, MD4L said:

His career in some aspects is similar to Jared Goff.

Did he have a ten year career? No.

He still earned the 2nd contract, play 3 or 4 years from that deal and reached a Super Bowl with another NFC Championship game. Is it comparable to Tom Brady or hall of famers? No.

Is it a respectable career and better then 95-98% of other QBs? Yes.

Respectable careers don't mean you won Super Bowls, and winning Super Bowls is the goal for any self-respecting franchise.

If you are spending a first-round pick on a guy, you aren't comparing him to 98% of quarterbacks. You're saying that this is a guy you expect to come in and put you in position to win the Super Bowl every year. If you're not looking at it that way, you're wasting your picks and you deserve to be fired.

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Just now, MD4L said:

Kyler Murray didn’t play that game in that final game so congratulations if you’re counting that as a reason you are correct.

 

Ah yes you're right, the guy you need to bring up his rushing stats to justify as an above-average quarterback couldn't stay healthy enough doing that to play in a critical game. What a fool I look.

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2 minutes ago, Blue said:

Ah yes you're right, the guy you need to bring up his rushing stats to justify as an above-average quarterback couldn't stay healthy enough doing that to play in a critical game. What a fool I look.

You’re not a fool but this comes across as a foolish perspective.

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I love how certain people have essentially already made up their mind completely on NFL Draft prospects without said players even being drafted let alone playing an NFL game yet. I can already see how voting tactics will progress 

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Look, we can go back and forth on this all day, but I'm gonna say that in my opinion a lot of people conflate "fun to watch" with "good at the game." And I think a lot of you go into your player evaluations assuming that a guy is going to continue to improve, that he'll have good coaching and talent around him to help him succeed, and I don't. I look it as these teams are picking high every year because they don't have those things and don't know how to develop talent, and the rational way to evaluate these players (to me) is to assume that these guys are going to have to get by on what they've already got.

I don't see guys like Fields or Wilson dragging moribund franchises to glory without said organizations changing on a fundamental level. I hope I'm wrong! I got nothing against those guys. But I'd feel like an idiot for not trusting my eyes on who these guys are as players right now and thinking they're going to get the development they should at the NFL level.

EDIT: And no, it's not about "well anybody who goes to the Jets is destined to bust." I'm saying that these guys get pushed up the board because teams are desperate for a franchise savior, and these guys aren't that. Fair or not, whether you like it or not, nobody gets drafted in the top 10 with any expectation other than that they are going to be a player who succeeds no matter what's going on around them. I'd feel the same way if it was the Saints or Packers drafting Fields.

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1 minute ago, Blue said:

And I think a lot of you go into your player evaluations assuming that a guy is going to continue to improve, that he'll have good coaching and talent around him to help him succeed, and I don't.

I know if I draft someone with capital which is that significant I am definitely using the next 4-5 seasons to continually assure that person is developed properly with talent.

And fwiw, I drafted none of these guys with a big question at QB ourselves. I’ll gladly play the developmental game with Kellen Mond.

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6 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

I love how certain people have essentially already made up their mind completely on NFL Draft prospects without said players even being drafted let alone playing an NFL game yet. I can already see how voting tactics will progress 

Yeah I remember not being the biggest fan of Herbert and dramatically changing my mind within a month of play. It’s like that every year.

Halfway through the year people were saying Justin Jefferson wasn’t the best rookie WR. But he closed out strong and made things happen progressively changing from guy to account for to perhaps most dangerous receiver on the roster. The change in thought processes part of the intrigue.

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