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(poll) So what do we do with SS Landon Collins?


With the emergence of SS Kameran Curl, what to do with L. Collins?  

20 members have voted

  1. 1. What SHOULD we do with SS Landon Collins?

    • Keep him where he is @ SS
    • Trade him to the highest bidder in the off season
    • Just outright cut him with no compensation like we're good at
    • Move him to OLB, where we're thin at
    • Dangle him for trade on Draft Day & draft day only


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2 hours ago, taylor made said:

Landon had that massive 2016 All Pro year and he's been living off name recognition since. He was a force back then but that was 4 years ago.He started declining when he was with the Giants his last year there. Isn't it curious how they didn't resign him? It wouldn't surprise me if Landon was abusing PEDs just because how much of his 2016 year ended up being an outlier.  He now has a ton of money in the bank and is coming off a serious injury. I think you are living in a fantasy land to think Landon will regain his former glory and play a new position well. I'd rather see what we have in Khaleke Hudson then trot Landon out there. We've seen this story before. Just another Free Agent bust.

I think you need to evaluate the drop off in talent around him on that New York D from 2015, 2016 & then after. The Giants had a lot of talent on their D and had a good D when Collins was in his first two years then, those guys they had either retired, blew their hands off with firecrackers or left for other teams and new contracts with other teams.

How the guys around a good player play can also affect them bc one good player can’t make up for the other guys in the secondary or the linebackers not doing their job and of course pass rush can always improve the chances for DBs to make plays on the bank end bc pressure on a QB can force them into mistakes that the DBs can capitalize on.

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9 hours ago, e16bball said:

This is pretty much what I’m getting at. This guy has a track record of really good play at SS, and he’s still young. To me, that suggests they need to think about what they need to do to get Landon Collins back to being Landon Collins, the former All-Pro and 3x Pro Bowler. 

Maybe he just totally fell off a cliff at age 26...but it suspect it’s more likely that there’s still a way for this guy to continue being a highly impactful player. Curl’s play at SS this season adds a layer of complexity, to be sure, but I’m hopeful they’ll all come up with an effective way to get both of them on the field. 

So if our goal is to get both these guys on the field at once, should we be considering moving Curl to linebacker?  Or free safety for that matter?

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24 minutes ago, offbyone said:

So if our goal is to get both these guys on the field at once, should we be considering moving Curl to linebacker?  Or free safety for that matter?

I don’t think moving Curl makes much sense. He’s a young player who’s still developing & they’ve found a great spot for him as a SS and he’s excelled in that role. I wouldn’t do anything to mess with that.

Curl also only weighs 198 pounds. Moving him to LB really doesn’t make much sense to me at all.

Collins on the other hand is already 218 pounds, has an achillies injury which probably means he’ll put on some weight just bc he won’t be able to run much until the spring and Collins has the frame to add 5-10 more pounds if they want him to and as Slateman thinks they should do.

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7 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I don’t think moving Curl makes much sense. He’s a young player who’s still developing & they’ve found a great spot for him as a SS and he’s excelled in that role. I wouldn’t do anything to mess with that.

Curl also only weighs 198 pounds. Moving him to LB really doesn’t make much sense to me at all.

Collins on the other hand is already 218 pounds, has an achillies injury which probably means he’ll put on some weight just bc he won’t be able to run much until the spring and Collins has the frame to add 5-10 more pounds if they want him to and as Slateman thinks they should do.

Sound argument but we could easily argue the opposite side.  Curl will likely only add more muscle and weight as he progresses in his career.  And what better time to do a player conversion than when  a player is still young and developing.  The worse time to do it is an established player who you are paying big money because of his historical play at a current position.

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12 minutes ago, offbyone said:

Sound argument but we could easily argue the opposite side.  Curl will likely only add more muscle and weight as he progresses in his career.  And what better time to do a player conversion than when  a player is still young and developing.  The worse time to do it is an established player who you are paying big money because of his historical play at a current position.

That’s true but I just wouldn’t mess with a young player who’s performing well in his natural position right now regardless of where they played etc.

Again, I don’t agree with the argument being made that the switch to WLB is a big deal for Collins. Everyone knows Collins plays more like a LB than a safety anyways. Everyone knows the reason he’s been playing SS since college and not FS is bc he doesn’t have good deep coverage skills but, he tackles, blitzes & plays run D like a LB.

The guy is a linebacker who’s been playing safety for 9 years - including college - bc of his size, but today’s NFL has changed to where there are more LBs who are smaller and quicker than there used to be a decade plus ago bc most teams throw the ball more specifically on quicker routes and run the ball less in between the tackles. 

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5 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

That’s true but I just wouldn’t mess with a young player who’s performing well in his natural position right now regardless of where they played etc.

Again, I don’t agree with the argument being made that the switch to WLB is a big deal for Collins. Everyone knows Collins plays more like a LB than a safety anyways. Everyone knows the reason he’s been playing SS since college and not FS is bc he doesn’t have good deep coverage skills but, he tackles, blitzes & plays run D like a LB.

The guy is a linebacker who’s been playing safety for 9 years - including college - bc of his size, but today’s NFL has changed to where there are more LBs who are smaller and quicker than there used to be a decade plus ago bc most teams throw the ball more specifically on quicker routes and run the ball less in between the tackles. 

I just am hesitant to pay someone big money for a position he excelled at and then switch him.  It is a big gamble.  Player conversions fail more often than they succeed.

Either way it probably won't matter.  Achilles is a biggie injury that takes a really long recovery.  He likely won't be ready at start of season much less training camp.  So you can't count on him this year at either position and have to make other plans.  It is perfect we have Curl to take the reins.  

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1 hour ago, offbyone said:

So if our goal is to get both these guys on the field at once, should we be considering moving Curl to linebacker?  Or free safety for that matter?

I would not move Curl to LB. I don’t think he has the size or the physicality to hold up in the box full-time. He’s very lean and high-cut, I think he’d get massacred in there.

Plus, to me at least — and this sounds odd, given that one of them is a former All-Pro making like $17M a year — Curl is the more valuable asset. He’s younger, healthier, and most importantly he’s on a 7th round rookie contract for 3 more seasons. I don’t think you screw with him, especially not by making him move into an entirely different level of the defense. If you’re moving someone to LB, it’s gotta be Collins. 

That said, if it works to deploy Curl as a split safety alongside Deshazor Everett, why could it not work to do the same with Landon Collins? They can call Everett a FS all they want, I’ve seen him play for years, the man is tough and smart, but he’s definitely not your classic single-high centerfielder. Is Curl rangy enough to take over that role next to Collins? I don’t know the answer to that. I know he played CB for a while in college (which Everett also did), so that suggests he might be able to. But I will say that a lot of his draft profiles felt he lacked the range to play deep zones in the NFL. They seem to have proved to be wrong in some respects, though, so maybe he could do it.

That would be the preferred outcome, if those two could play together. If that’s not feasible, then I have to say I’ve warmed up to the Collins-to-WLB idea a bit. I usually hate “just switch his position” ideas, but that one might have some legs. Here’s a PFF article from before we signed Collins that actually suggested moving him to an off-ball LB spot.

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1 hour ago, e16bball said:

Not that PFF is the end-all, but as none of us were really watching him play in and play out in NY, it probably bears some noting that he was graded exactly the same in 2017 as the one year “PED outlier” you’ve identifiedy in 2016. He did drop off the next year, and was just a “good” player, rather than an “excellent” one, in 2018 and 2019. His grades those past two seasons were basically identical to what Kam Curl has done this season, incidentally. 

He struggled to start this season, definitely didn’t play well at all. But basically no one on this team played well the first month or two, with a new staff and new scheme and very little time to get up to speed. We saw most of the guys on the defense improve with more time to get comfortable, but Collins didn’t get that opportunity because of his injury. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to believe he would have progressed with more time in the system and been playing much better, like his usual self, at this point. 

I’ll end the same way I always do when it comes to Collins. Overpaid? Yes. Struggles in middle-deep coverage? Yes, he’s a box safety. But he’s still a good, impactful player. Good teams find ways to deploy guys like him that minimize their exposure and give them opportunities to make plays. You guys who think he flat out sucks, I’m honestly just not seeing what you’re seeing. 

It doesn't take too long to take a look at his stats (i.e. Pro Football Reference) instead of the PFF numbers and realize his 2016 season was much better than his 2017 season. He literally had more interceptions AND sacks that year than his ENTIRE career so far. No, I wasn't watching Landon Collins week in and week out but I remember being SCARED of Landon Collins when he first broke out with the Giants. He was their new captain and leader of the defense. But for whatever reason - he and the Giants fell off after that 11-5 season. I don't think Landon 'sucks' but he's not 'good' either. You defended off-season and you'll keep defending him (I.e. Montez Sweat has been 100% this season). He's a middling vet who came here for a paycheck and he plays like one. Why does he automatically deserve playing time and excuses over someone like Khaleke Hudson or even a 1st round rookie (Notre Dame LBer)? Seems like a great guy off the field, though.

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1 hour ago, taylor made said:

It doesn't take too long to take a look at his stats (i.e. Pro Football Reference) instead of the PFF numbers and realize his 2016 season was much better than his 2017 season. He literally had more interceptions AND sacks that year than his ENTIRE career so far. No, I wasn't watching Landon Collins week in and week out but I remember being SCARED of Landon Collins when he first broke out with the Giants. He was their new captain and leader of the defense. But for whatever reason - he and the Giants fell off after that 11-5 season. I don't think Landon 'sucks' but he's not 'good' either. You defended off-season and you'll keep defending him (I.e. Montez Sweat has been 100% this season). He's a middling vet who came here for a paycheck and he plays like one. Why does he automatically deserve playing time and excuses over someone like Khaleke Hudson or even a 1st round rookie (Notre Dame LBer)? Seems like a great guy off the field, though.

I think I already answered why the Giants defense got worse. A lot of those players they had in 2016 either retired, got hurt or weren’t retained and left in free agency to go somewhere else. 
 

It probably explains why Collins’s stats took a hit too. Their front 7 was not as good because players retired or left the Giants and when that happens of course it’s going to affect the back end as well.

It all works together.

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12 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

So 8 of you want to see if an expensive *** player can switch positions?

Yes bc the position change isn’t a big deal for a player who already plays like a LB and has since he was drafted. And, for what he’s good at - playing around the line of scrimmage, shooting gaps making tackles for loss and getting sacks on blitzes - playing as WLB would be the best position for him on the field.
 

I’ve felt that way all year, I think Rivera/DelRio missed their chance to move him to WLB in 2020 while they signed Eric Reid or found a better coverage safety than both of them to play SS.

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On 1/2/2021 at 12:07 PM, e16bball said:

I’ll end the same way I always do when it comes to Collins. Overpaid? Yes. Struggles in middle-deep coverage? Yes, he’s a box safety. But he’s still a good, impactful player. Good teams find ways to deploy guys like him that minimize their exposure and give them opportunities to make plays. You guys who think he flat out sucks, I’m honestly just not seeing what you’re seeing. 

If they are going to maximize both Curl and Collins, they need a true deep safety a la Earl Thomas in his prime (I'm not going to make the obvious comparison that would go here because I don't think you can recreate that player). Probably a sideline-to-sideline linebacker as well. If you had those two players, you could go with a three safety look.

Because otherwise, I think we're going to have Collins end up being only a two down safety. Either that or kind of waste Curl.

 

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On 1/2/2021 at 12:56 PM, aceinthehouse said:

Hopefully, they are able to restructure his deal. But I would like to keep him if we can.

I hope he recovers from his injury. He's a darn good player & could make our defense even better. Imagine that...

Keep in mind that if you restructure a deal, that usually means taking money now and pushing it to later years. So, it would be taking a backloaded contract and making it more backloaded and less likely to cut him in out years.

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