Colin Kaepernick

[Glen]

28 minutes ago, eagles18 said:

Yes because we've seen what Kaep can do, we haven't seen what Savage can do. Kaeps inevitable media distractions wouldn't be worth it considering his mediocre play. 

So therefor we can conclude he is better than Kaep already. But not a steaming pile of garbage, quite possibly the worst QB of all time. 

Gotcha

[IDOG_det]

35 minutes ago, eagles18 said:

He's a run first QB and always has been. if a team is smart they will tailor the offense to his strengths. 

So we're ignoring the seasons where he wasn't a "run first" quarterback?

[mse326]

On 7/24/2017 at 11:42 AM, Gmen4ev said:

So therefor we can conclude he is better than Kaep already. But not a steaming pile of garbage, quite possibly the worst QB of all time. 

Gotcha

I'm not going to agree a disagree with the argument that you are having with him, but I would say it's academic. Part of the reason we aren't signing him is we have Watson now in the wings. We don't need to bring in another guy that needs to learn the system. Savage will provide more value to this team through his knowledge of the system and ability to help Watson learn it so you'd have to add that to his value on the field.

[mse326]

One thing that is brought up enough here or the media is we have no idea what he is asking/demanding in regards to role and contract. Like I heard Sherman complain that Schaub has a job as a backup for 1/$6M saying Kaep is better. And I'd agree but unless we know that Kaep is willing to sign that deal, it is irrelevant.

Frankly this leads me to believe that a big reason he isn't signed is contract demands. I say that because I think an even halfway decent agent by this point would have said what he is willing to sign if it was backup reasonable money and role. That would make it clear that it is other factors putting more pressure on owners. The fact he hasn't means he is either making a really poor decision or he knows that releasing what he is asking for would shift the narrative because he is asking for too much. I think the latter is more likely.

[Deadpulse]

Heard the Raven's may be interested in him in light of the back issues for Flacco. May just be posturing though

[coors]

Ravens should scoop him up. 32 year old QB with back problems isn't good. 

[Forge]

3 hours ago, mse326 said:

One thing that is brought up enough here or the media is we have no idea what he is asking/demanding in regards to role and contract. Like I heard Sherman complain that Schaub has a job as a backup for 1/$6M saying Kaep is better. And I'd agree but unless we know that Kaep is willing to sign that deal, it is irrelevant.

Frankly this leads me to believe that a big reason he isn't signed is contract demands. I say that because I think an even halfway decent agent by this point would have said what he is willing to sign if it was backup reasonable money and role. That would make it clear that it is other factors putting more pressure on owners. The fact he hasn't means he is either making a really poor decision or he knows that releasing what he is asking for would shift the narrative because he is asking for too much. I think the latter is more likely.

There have been a few reports that money isn't an issue. After the Seahawks brought him in, it was said that they weren't apart on the money. There was some info leaking (honestly, probably by the 49ers, as much as it pains me to say) that he wanted 9-10 million per year, but pft quoted sources saying that this was false and Mike Freeman was quoted as saying that the story that he wasnt signed due to contract demands was a straight up lie. 

I mean, to me, does he have the talent that he should be on an NFL roster somewhere? Absolutely. He's not good, but as a backup, he'd be fine and he's certainly one of the most capable 64 quarterbacks available. Is it worth the distraction? Probably not, and I think that is also a viable stance to take when you own a team or are the GM of a team. 

[skywlker32]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

There have been a few reports that money isn't an issue. After the Seahawks brought him in, it was said that they weren't apart on the money. There was some info leaking (honestly, probably by the 49ers, as much as it pains me to say) that he wanted 9-10 million per year, but pft quoted sources saying that this was false and Mike Freeman was quoted as saying that the story that he wasnt signed due to contract demands was a straight up lie. 

I mean, to me, does he have the talent that he should be on an NFL roster somewhere? Absolutely. He's not good, but as a backup, he'd be fine and he's certainly one of the most capable 64 quarterbacks available. Is it worth the distraction? Probably not, and I think that is also a viable stance to take when you own a team or are the GM of a team. 

The problem with having him as a backup is that, from what I remember, he has had to have a simplified offense to work in. For a backup, you want someone that can step into the offense in place, not a guy that you have to work the offense around.

[Forge]

26 minutes ago, skywlker32 said:

The problem with having him as a backup is that, from what I remember, he has had to have a simplified offense to work in. For a backup, you want someone that can step into the offense in place, not a guy that you have to work the offense around.

To me, that's an excuse  that doesn't hold water. I mean, most backup quarterbacks have significant limitations, that's why they are backups. There are a lot of backups out there with slower on the field mental processing going through progressions, others have physical limitations that would require a team to shelve certain parts of the playbook or use a re-worked offense. He's not the only one in the league who has deficiencies that you would have to work around if they were pressed into action. Do people really think that you're working with a less limited playbook with Matt Barkley or Austin Davis than you are with Kaepernick? What about Geno Smith or EJ Manuel? Because I really can't believe that. 

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

To me, that's an excuse  that doesn't hold water. I mean, most backup quarterbacks have significant limitations, that's why they are backups. There are a lot of backups out there with slower on the field mental processing going through progressions, others have physical limitations that would require a team to shelve certain parts of the playbook or use a re-worked offense. He's not the only one in the league who has deficiencies that you would have to work around if they were pressed into action. Do people really think that you're working with a less limited playbook with Matt Barkley or Austin Davis than you are with Kaepernick? Because I really can't believe that. 

It's not really an excuse.  Colin Kaepernick really needs a read-option offense to succeed.  I remember a few years ago when Rodgers got hurt and they had to play Matt Flynn in place of him, and one of the reporters asked Mike McCarthy whether or not he was going to dial back the playbook with Flynn as the starting QB and short answer was that he was going to call the game the same way he would if Aaron was playing.  You don't remake your offense based around your backup, your backup needs to be able to fit into your standard offense.  And Kaepernick really hasn't shown the ability to be successful outside of the read-option they used him in.  He's not your traditional drop back passer.

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

It's not really an excuse.  Colin Kaepernick really needs a read-option offense to succeed.  I remember a few years ago when Rodgers got hurt and they had to play Matt Flynn in place of him, and one of the reporters asked Mike McCarthy whether or not he was going to dial back the playbook with Flynn as the starting QB and short answer was that he was going to call the game the same way he would if Aaron was playing.  You don't remake your offense based around your backup, your backup needs to be able to fit into your standard offense.  And Kaepernick really hasn't shown the ability to be successful outside of the read-option they used him in.  He's not your traditional drop back passer.

Succeed is a relative term. If he's a back up quarterback, you're really just hoping for someone that you won't go 0-4 with if your starter is out for a few weeks. I think he's good enough, without the read option, to be able to do that. He needs the read option to be a successful quarterback in the NFL as a starter or long term solution, I do believe that is accurate, but he's at least shown flashes of something without it - more so than some of the other quarterbacks who are currently on rosters as back ups. 

[CWood21]

23 minutes ago, Forge said:

Succeed is a relative term. If he's a back up quarterback, you're really just hoping for someone that you won't go 0-4 with if your starter is out for a few weeks. I think he's good enough, without the read option, to be able to do that. He needs the read option to be a successful quarterback in the NFL as a starter or long term solution, I do believe that is accurate, but he's at least shown flashes of something without it - more so than some of the other quarterbacks who are currently on rosters as back ups. 

Except it's not relative.  He hasn't had a completion percentage north of 60% in four years.  Last year, he was 26th in completion percentage among qualified QBs.  He was 17th in QBR last year, but that was largely because he was effective in not turning over the ball.  Back in 2014 which was the last time he was a full-time starter, he was 24th in completion percentage and 20th in QBR.  He's a lower-rung starting QB at best, so when you factor in that he's a backup, the whole hoopla regarding his personal beliefs, and the probability that he wants a decent contract and he's too many issues to overlook.  It's a combination of these things that has kept him unemployed.  Too many people want to say it's one thing or the other, but ignore the fact that it's a combination of these issues.

[Yibbyl]

On 7/20/2017 at 8:56 AM, theJ said:

Kaep and Griffin are a little different.

The last time we saw Kaepernick, he was doing bottom 10 NFL QB stuff.  But still better than almost every backup, so certainly worth a "starting" role.  I mean, this was his 2016 stat line in 11 games.

• 16 TD's
• 4 INT's
• 59% comp 
• 6.8 YPA

He was decent.  But - teams recognize that he's probably no better than that, and aren't willing to endure the media circus that comes along with it just to lose a bunch of games.

With Griffin, he just plain sucked every time given a chance the last few years.  Really bad TD/INT ratio, bad YPA, etc.  And he's hurt all the time.  

Kaep & RGIII are different, but IMHO not how you referenced. RGIII broke the law and still got signed again! Kaep's actions were nothing more than gestures to make his opinion known. What he did was perfectly legal and people are acting like Kaep committed some sort of crime against humanity! RGIII was the criminal, not Kaep, and RGIII paid his dues with jail time, fines, and community service. Kaep committed no crime and has paid for it in the court of public opinion and in lost income. What about the others who followed Kaep's lead? I don't see them run out of the league or blackballed! That inconsistency is a clear sign to me that the reaction to Kaep's kneeling is questionable or even an over-reaction.

BTW, to be clear, I respect the flag for what it represents, but as a Veteran, I also support his right to have made his objections known. The right to free speech doesn't mean I have to agree with that speech, but it does mean anyone is entitled to speak it.

Anyway, to cut to the chase, as a GM of an existing team with a need at QB, I'd talk to Kaep, pointing out that he now has a very real platform to state his opinions for likely the rest of his life and that if he could stand for our National Anthem from now on, he could play for my team. In other words, I wouldn't want the game-time distraction, but he would be able to speak his mind in interviews...and I guarantee he'd get the option to do so whether he wanted it or not! At this point, I suspect he'd be fine with that. Now, if I worked for a new expansion team, he'd be signed already. Period. If that meant some difficult questions from the media, well, the gist of my response to them is already written above. Kaep's by far the best option available when skill set, age, and cost are factored into the equation. So, for that part of your post, we basically agree...if RGIII is worth a second chance in the league, Kaep is definitely worth a look and it won't surprise me if he ends up on the Ravens squad.

[GSUeagles14]

Why is it such a negative to say he isnt being signed because of his very public stances? At the end of the day, the nfl is a business that relies on sponsorships and fan support (monetarily). Without getting into if i agree with him or not, he did things last year that obviously would provoke strong felling and as little as a month ago wondered why he should celebrate America. hes simply not good enough to deal with the headache he comes with, and yes, he comes with a headache.

Matt Schaub doesnt have the same baggage, neither does Robert Griffin or that CFL QB or wherever he came from. its not like its a shock that people get fired up when you bring up America and the flag, he knew what he was doing and he brought it on himself. Not even saying he made the wrong choice, but he doesnt have to be a genius to figure out this may happen.

[MrOaktown_56]

Some of you critical of kap are ignoring how bad the 49ers were around him last year. No one could have succeeded on that team.